cRPG

Strategus => Strategus Issues => Topic started by: Mannhammer on November 04, 2011, 07:18:23 am

Title: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Mannhammer on November 04, 2011, 07:18:23 am
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The perfect defense is a good offence?
So it seems that a faction can attack their own fief. Thereby, perpetually preventing an attack from a foe.
Will this glitch will break Strat?
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Matey on November 04, 2011, 08:12:23 am
its a feature!
the idea is, since you cant change fief ownership.. you would have to attack the guy to get the fief from him... it is exploitable in terms of locking down fiefs, but mostly its just a bug right now where people are unintentionally attacking fiefs they just took. either way... an easy fix is to make it impossible to attack your own fiefs, and if a member of your faction goes rogue with a fief, just boot him from the faction and then attack it.
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: joespose on November 04, 2011, 09:34:44 am
most  village attacks has automatically made a second attack after they win the fight anyway. people aren't intentionally doing it
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Mannhammer on November 04, 2011, 10:25:13 am
it is exploitable in terms of locking down fiefs
After a year of playing strat I've learned that any glitch/feature :lol: that can be exploited will be exploited to the ruination of the game. I just wanted to bring attention to this in a vain attempt to have it remedied before a plague scours the land.

an easy fix is to make it impossible to attack your own fiefs, and if a member of your faction goes rogue with a fief, just boot him from the faction and then attack it.
This is a simple and elegant solution to the problem. Expect it in 6 to 9 months.

 
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: bredeus on November 04, 2011, 11:39:43 am
If you wish to give a fief to other member of a Faction its the only way nowadays
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Gheritarish le Loki on November 04, 2011, 01:32:13 pm
After a year of playing strat I've learned that any glitch/feature :lol: that can be exploited will be exploited to the ruination of the game. I just wanted to bring attention to this in a vain attempt to have it remedied before a plague scours the land.

You become a little bit paranoid, you see exploit everywhere! this is a bug dammit!!
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Rhygar666 on November 04, 2011, 04:45:30 pm
this is a bug dammit!!
its not a bug its a feature
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Thovex on November 04, 2011, 11:46:05 pm
I'd rather have it to take a day to switch fief ownership, or accepted by both parties or something.
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Harpag on November 05, 2011, 11:55:53 am
After a year of playing strat I've learned that any glitch/feature :lol: that can be exploited will be exploited to the ruination of the game. I just wanted to bring attention to this in a vain attempt to have it remedied before a plague scours the land.
This is a simple and elegant solution to the problem. Expect it in 6 to 9 months.

If you want to avoid this  :rolleyes: glitch / exploit  :rolleyes: - during the first attack on a location, set your army on the march in any direction. If you do not, the next attack will be made ​​automatically and you lose 24 hours of upkeep. Unfortunately tested in practice  :(

PS. Overzealous is worse than fascism.
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Krakatit on November 30, 2011, 12:56:49 am
bump

someone might want to read this thread...
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Slamz on November 30, 2011, 11:19:46 am
The problem is this:
How do you fix it?

Scenario:
Army #1 attacks a town at 4:30pm
Army #2 wants to attack the same town at 4:35pm

Saying "you can't attack your own faction" solves nothing since Army #1 can just quit the faction prior to attacking.

Scheduling both battles to occur would be a bad idea -- Army #1 could be a legitimate attack on the town and if they win, and the second battle starts up immediately afterwards, they would have had no time to setup their roster.


One solution would be for the devs to declare it against the rules and police it.  (They have not declared it against the rules.  Attacking with a wizard is not the same thing as declaring it against the rules.  There should be a sticky post saying "Do not do the following things".)


Another solution:
Attacks cost gold.  This gold vanishes and is lost forever.  Widows and orphans fund.

Army vs army: attacker pays 500 gold
Army vs village: attacker pays 5000 gold
Army vs castle: attacker pays 8000 gold
Army vs town: attacker pays 10000 gold

Or maybe the cost could be population based.  Army vs army could be based on population + number of crates, so if you want to cockblock attackers going for your caravan with 49 troops and 500 crates, it'll cost ya.

Then "delaying actions" become a perfectly valid part of the game.  It's just that every time you do it, it will cost you some non-trivial amount of money.  If anything, my suggested values are probably a bit low.  10,000 gold to attack a village sounds perfectly doable to me and I'm sure my clan, with 12 people in it, is not among the richest.  I could see someone shelling out 10,000 gold to do a delaying action, but it's not something they would want to keep doing every day, especially if the attackers started moving against more than one village.
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Gheritarish le Loki on November 30, 2011, 12:20:23 pm
The problem is this:
How do you fix it?

Send flying carpet with fire staff.
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Slamz on November 30, 2011, 01:17:39 pm
Send flying carpet with fire staff.

That's fine as long as they do that every time.  No exceptions.  5am on a Tuesday?  Someone needs to log in with the magic carpet and fire staff.  Rules must be consistent.
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: chadz on November 30, 2011, 01:45:41 pm
we'll figure out a way.

Meanwhile, it can cause weird results trying to abuse/exploit this mechanic and is therefore not allowed.
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Lennu on November 30, 2011, 03:27:18 pm
we'll figure out a way.

Meanwhile, it can cause weird results trying to abuse/exploit this mechanic and is therefore not allowed.

You should have said that 3 weeks ago. But at least now we know what these "weird" results are  :lol:

But really. This tread was completely ignored untill Loki "gave it a free bumb" by preventing 3000man army from attacking a helpless village and openly admitting that he used this spesific bug so it would be noticed?  Now the whole Occitan clan+allies AND the Fallen clan+allies had to suffer  :rolleyes:

Maybe instead of attacking the village to transfer the ownership, both the current AND the future fief-owner would have to be inside it? Once they both are inside, a high'rank (maybe the faction leader only?) player from the clan or the current owner of the village could transfer the ownership. This would make fief ownership transferring relatively slow, but also a bit more realistic.
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on November 30, 2011, 06:37:05 pm
slamz i think the solution is just to allow fief owners (and only fief owners) the ability to transfer the fief to whoever they want, but it can only be done like once a week.  and if you control the faction of the fief owner and want to give the fief to someone else, you'll have to kick them from the faction and attack it yourself.  just like in single player, the fiefs are attached to the people, not the factions.  When you leave a faction you have the option to keep the fief (and obviously go to war with that faction). 

i think that would cover every possible issue by the devs, and still allow fief transfers with less potential for aboose.
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Nihtgenga on November 30, 2011, 07:00:31 pm
we'll figure out a way.

Meanwhile, it can cause weird results trying to abuse/exploit this mechanic and is therefore not allowed.

this statement would have been nice 3 weeks ago : )
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Tomas on November 30, 2011, 07:15:29 pm
I posted in Kesh's topic but figured i'd post it here as well.

The solution is to turn the exploit into a feature.  Locking down your own villages should be allowed but with increased penalties.

Already there is the penalty of your troops being locked down.  In the Dusturil case the Hospitallers/Occitans could have marched straight past the 1000 locked Fallen troops and instead attacked the reinforcing Fallen army 3000 vs 1500 (ish).  If I had to pick between attacking 1500 troops in Dusturil or attacking 1500 troops in a random field I know which would have picked and would have seen the locked 1000 troops as a blessing :D.  A bit of intelligence on the Hospitaller/Occitan front could have seen an even better outcome for them without all this drama.  Maybe they could have even gained some pride in the fact that they don't need the Devs to fight their wars for them.

Added to this is the already existant "Loki you are a scumbag" penalty.  Attacking your own village is not the best way to look good and make friends :D

On top of these however I propose that all crafting, recruitment and selling of goods should be suspended during any village attacks.  This means villages under attack are no longer profitable which should increase the penalty sufficiently to make clans think twice before using the attack your own village feature.

There does need to be a transfer village button though with a 1 week cooldown as obviously it is a little unfair to suspend production if you are just trying to transfer ownership.

This is by far the simplest solution as it requires no policing or punishments at all!!!
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Lordark on December 01, 2011, 07:03:30 am
This mod is still 50% un finished.  So much more code needs pumped into it. Continue to enjoy the Guinea pig experience. Have fun Rp'ing in the mean time.
Title: Re: Faction attacking own Fief to prevent counter attack
Post by: Gomer on December 09, 2011, 03:33:45 am
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The perfect defense is a good offence?
So it seems that a faction can attack their own fief. Thereby, perpetually preventing an attack from a foe.
Will this glitch will break Strat?
Good thing you guys already abused this one....