cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: owens on October 21, 2011, 01:37:07 pm

Title: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: owens on October 21, 2011, 01:37:07 pm
I think a well made xbow should break less than your averagely made xbow
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Vibe on October 21, 2011, 01:43:24 pm
no
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: sF_Guardian on October 21, 2011, 01:55:26 pm
No
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Cup1d on October 21, 2011, 02:35:06 pm
Why less? Better weapon - more to pay.

Still think that loomed weapon must have repair bill more than standart.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on October 21, 2011, 02:40:21 pm
No

no

YES YES!  :D
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Dexxtaa on October 21, 2011, 03:09:27 pm
Nope.

Makes no sense.

Say your dad gave you his car, which was his dads car. How often would it break down compared to a brand spankin' new car?

Yeah.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Christo on October 21, 2011, 09:10:51 pm
These days?

(Some) new cars are made like shit so you have to take it to the service early on, this fails, that fails. Of course this is a modern marketing example, but I get your idea.

I say nay.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on October 22, 2011, 01:26:12 am
Nope.

Makes no sense.

Say your dad gave you his car, which was his dads car. How often would it break down compared to a brand spankin' new car?

Yeah.
Well, what do you think would be the best weapon, an old used, rusty, aged, Bec de Corbin, or a completely new one? I think they should break less... (armor too... (tincan should be a possible playstyle))
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Patricia on October 22, 2011, 08:01:15 am
The simple fact that an old as fuck weapon possibly repaired several time heirloomed down the family tree actually ends up being STRONGER makes no fucking sense.

Also tincan IS a playstyle, I played an entire gen in lordly gothic plate with lordly hourglass gauntlets with armet and cased greaves with a greatmaul/MW longsword for a total of 79 body armor in 36/3 11 IF 12 PS build and in the end I actually gained about 40k gold, playing entirely exclusively in plate.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Duke on October 22, 2011, 08:34:08 am
Realism should not be used in this argument because the same wear and tear argument could be used against items you've had forever but not heirloomed yet. Everything already breaks and repairs as it is.

And even if you insist on realism, you could still turn it against the argument saying: The weapon turned out to be well-made, better than your average sword, and that is why it was chosen to pass down to your heir.

All that should matter is the balance of gold repairs, not realism. So long as the reductions in break chance were not drastic, I'd personally see no problem with it.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: [Ant] on October 22, 2011, 10:25:12 am
This argument is not really realism based but gives incentives to loom the most expensive items rather than bolts. It could cause a rise in the number of loomed horses as well
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: CoWorm on October 22, 2011, 11:07:45 am
I'm against anything that lowers upkeep costs. It should be the same for everyone. Bad enough that those of us who have played for abit have equipment that is better then newer players, but make us be able to wear heavier and more expensive gear as well without gold penalties?

tincan should be a possible playstyle

Seems to me that it already is, I see quite a few tincans and other very heavy armor users running around every day.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Rebelyell on October 22, 2011, 11:39:35 am
its better weapon why not?
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: CaptainQuantum on October 22, 2011, 11:48:21 am
No, I have fully heirloomed everything but my boots, and I don't think I should be running around with MW german GS and black coat of plates all the time (which in total gives 59 h 71 b and 63 l). Seriously this would be a horrible idea, I don't want to run around with so much armour all the time either, since it gets boring having so much hp and I start to spam.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: PieParadox on October 23, 2011, 01:20:57 am
No because this would be a even bigger buff to already overpowered heirlooms. If anything heirlooms should be more expensive since the heirloom is in every way better than the unheirloomed item.

Too many conflict realism viewpoints. Foe example, realistically, an old heirloom (lets say a car) from your parents would cost more maintenance than a brand new car wouldn't you think?
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: San on October 23, 2011, 01:39:15 am
We're already lucky heirloomed items don't have increased upkeep like they should.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on October 23, 2011, 05:35:32 am
Tunic over Mail MW plus MW plate mittens = 60 body armor. Should that person also pay less upkeep? Every gen makes it easier to get to the next gen we shouldn't be adding to the improvement curve its already stupid.

The game is so hard to get into all the people I've introduced to it I've had to pep rally "Keep going soon you'll be lvl 20 and have not completely shit gear and be able to do something, kind of, don't worry only a few more hours of pointlessness left! maybe."

I say NO to your evil idea of evil.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 23, 2011, 06:42:34 am
Overpowered, especially for armour.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Son Of Odin on October 23, 2011, 03:27:46 pm
No... I like the system we have now.

When it comes to realism... Isn't time tested blade more durable than a new one that you don't know whether it is going to break into first opponent? Think about it. Well used, carefully cleaned and sharpened old weapon is better and stronger you dumbasses. Some items get better as they get older. Deal with it.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: owens on October 24, 2011, 07:54:07 am
I didnt say that break chance should be halved. but logically a player who is second or third gen should have an advantage over a player who has been continuously respected for a time.

I am proposing only a small change that hopefully would balance and not bias the game
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Bobthehero on October 24, 2011, 08:07:24 am
overpowered heirlooms.

Ah ah ah.

I wouldnt mind, and it would people play with the gear they actually want.

Note that he said weapons, so all of you talking about armor stuff, your points are moot.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: PieParadox on October 24, 2011, 09:28:08 am
Bob! Are you telling me that heirlooms are not overpowered!? (omfg str crutch)

(I'm not sure what "ah ah ah" is lol)

edit:
I didnt say that break chance should be halved. but logically a player who is second or third gen should have an advantage over a player who has been continuously respected for a time.

I am proposing only a small change that hopefully would balance and not bias the game

It's just the competitive player in me, but no, I don't think someone who plays longer should have a basic advantage over another player. Explain how your suggestion balances anything, other than give an advantage to one player? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *head explode*

(I used to play too much starcraft 2, diamond 3  :shock:)
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Bobthehero on October 24, 2011, 09:36:18 am
Bob! Are you telling me that heirlooms are not overpowered!? (omfg str crutch)

(I'm not sure what "ah ah ah" is lol)

On the subject, WEAPON heirloom are not OP, I play a str, yes, but that doesnt mean I insta-crutch on the damned thing.

I though cRPG was about playing the way you want, so far you can't be a plated behemoth becasue of the upkeep and you can't be a a fast killer because it sucks.

Reducing upkeep on your weapon of choise would be a nice way to let you play the play style you want.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: PieParadox on October 24, 2011, 09:45:10 am
But you can Bob... You can sell your heirloom point. You can get say, 1 million gold for 3 heirloom points... Then you can play however you'd like for a long time. You know how this game has changed. Sadly, it's not like the old days where you could play however you'd like, they added upkeep for that explicit reason. For example, Goretooth clones running around everywhere (supposedly).

Well, weapon heirlooms are op but not not too game breakingly. I just dislike Lordly armour really.

And I'm not trying to insult everyone who uses heirlooms, I just get annoyed sometimes as i fight someone with a complete heirloom set.

Now, if heirlooms were made to reduce upkeep instead of giving such large stat bonuses... Then yeah I'd all be up for that since it wouldn't be that OP.

ninja edited
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Bobthehero on October 24, 2011, 09:46:55 am
Large stat? +3 damage +1 speed.

Big
Huge
Fucking
Overpowered
Difference, isnt it?
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Vibe on October 24, 2011, 09:47:42 am
I didnt say that break chance should be halved. but logically a player who is second or third gen should have an advantage over a player who has been continuously respected for a time.

So heirlooms aren't an advantage right now?

lol
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: PieParadox on October 24, 2011, 09:49:42 am
It's still flat out overpowered, you can't argue that.

One player with normal weapon VS one player with same weapon but inherent advantage

I was just pointing that heirlooms are OP, and as I said, weapon heirlooms don't bother me that much (except for MW longsword).

Imo, three damage though is actually a lot... Especially if it's an increase in pierce damage.

edit: oops! Stats relating to armour, I mean
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Bobthehero on October 24, 2011, 09:51:43 am
Yes I can, its an advantage, but nowhere near OP.

And in the case of sword, especially one hander, noone can stab properly, according to the threads about 1h stab being broken.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Vibe on October 24, 2011, 09:55:08 am
Armor looms are quite OP, however.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: PieParadox on October 24, 2011, 09:56:51 am
Yeah I've mained into a shielder. I hate how it either bounces or just misses sometimes (not as easy to pull of as my 2h build).

Also, I just talk in an objective way, overpowered = advantage in every way possible with no drawbacks. Difference of definitions. I just think in terms of numbers since SC2 (wtf hellion op, finally it got nerfed)

edit: BTW I was just joking earlier about str crutch Bob  :|
Lordly armour is straight out OP imo. Running around in loomed 60 armour with your medium armour arr.
I feel justified to use my only loom, MW espada eslavona with my shielder for lordly armour (hypocritical isn't it?)
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Bobthehero on October 24, 2011, 06:53:35 pm
The only loom I have except my MW long espada is my thick gothic plate with bevor.

And this isnt SC2.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: justme on October 24, 2011, 09:18:43 pm
breake less, cost more..
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Black Wind on November 05, 2011, 12:36:41 am
The point the OP is disputing, is that "How is it 'Well Made' if it breaks just as regularly as the standard one?"
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Lichen on November 05, 2011, 01:21:31 am
No. That would just be 1 more thing to whine about (oh guy with loom gets a discount, cry cry etc).
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: owens on November 05, 2011, 10:18:28 am
Considering the amount of negative responses a few people do agree with it.

Some weapons, armour and horses should be exempt.


This would buff loomed shields, xbow, and other costly items. It would just allow people who use these kinds of thing to wear better gear or use their loomed items more often.


Im not asking much just for a little positive contribution
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: B3RS3RK on November 05, 2011, 11:02:53 am
Yes Iam ok with that and I find it a faboulous idea.Shouldnt be much though.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Bulzur on November 05, 2011, 11:03:43 am
When a loom item breaks, it goes down by 1 in the list.
So if it's a +3, it goes to +2. If it breaks again, it goes to +1. Again, to the normal one.
That actually give you 4 times less repair, if you wait for the item to be a bit sucky before repairing it.
And yes, that's a lot. Just a shame the current reparation system only allows a "repair as soon as something breaks" and a "never repair", and not a little "repair as soon as an item goes to -1"
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Tzar on November 05, 2011, 01:07:14 pm
No.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Okkam on November 05, 2011, 01:36:28 pm
Greatly lower break chance (up to 0,25%) but make damage unrepairable. Or repairable in Strategus only. Or repaireable for insane sum of money.
Good conection of cRPG and Strategus I think.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Black Wind on November 05, 2011, 01:55:06 pm
Greatly lower break chance (up to 0,25%) but make damage unrepairable. Or repairable in Strategus only. Or repaireable for insane sum of money.
Good conection of cRPG and Strategus I think.


What about the countries that don't play strat? Australia, Japan etc.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Okkam on November 05, 2011, 01:58:46 pm
Players from this countries CANT play Strategus or DONT WANT to play?
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Black Wind on November 05, 2011, 02:03:44 pm
Players from this countries CANT play Strategus or DONT WANT to play?


Look, no offense, but you seem ignorant as all shit.

In Australia, if we played strat, we'd have 240-320 ping as it's based in NA (heard that somewhere, so not sure)

If the strategus server is based in NA, it woukd be fucking retarded for all non eu/na players..
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Okkam on November 05, 2011, 02:08:21 pm

Look, no offense, but you seem ignorant as all shit.

In Australia, if we played strat, we'd have 240-320 ping as it's based in NA (heard that somewhere, so not sure)

If the strategus server is based in NA, it woukd be fucking retarded for all non eu/na players..

Cool, you are as courteous as all your island friends I think. So aussy rotten reputation is confirmed another time.
You do not need PING to trade or (in this case) moving to smithy for repairing.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Black Wind on November 05, 2011, 02:24:52 pm
Cool, you are as courteous as all your island friends I think. So aussy rotten reputation is confirmed another time.

Oh yeah. That's right. Australia is neglected in the cRPG community, and you have the balls to say I'm not courteous.

And I like how you're using demeaning language to talk dowm at Australia, when Melbourne is the "most livable country in the world", so yeah. Think of that shit before slandering other people's nations, you racist fuckwit.

Nice recession btw. Sick cuntry you live in.


Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Duke on November 05, 2011, 02:26:28 pm
Imagine, for a moment, that the suggestion were to reduce the repair cost  rather than the rate (because it's hard to conceptualize occurrence rates). In my example I will say each loom reduces repair costs 5%.

If your item takes 700g to repair, a triple loomed item would still cost 595 to repair. It's not like it suddenly becomes cheap. A 2000g repair would still be 1700g, which is nothing to sneeze at.

I'm not saying everyone here has to agree with the OP's suggestion, I'm just offended by alarmists who flatly dismiss a suggestion because they think it will break the game or allow people to play Tincans on warhorses all day long when it would not. The real money abuse is people using the respec Gen 1 to gold farm while wearing such things.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: B3RS3RK on November 05, 2011, 02:37:17 pm
Yeah, not being able to go out without suncream without getting skincancer is very livable.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Black Wind on November 05, 2011, 02:40:23 pm
Yeah, not being able to go out without suncream without getting skincancer is very livable.

http://m.smh.com.au/business/melbourne-judged-worlds-most-liveable-city-20110830-1jjaq.html

There you go. Your argument is invalid.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Okkam on November 05, 2011, 02:41:06 pm
Oh yeah. That's right. Australia is neglected in the cRPG community, and you have the balls to say I'm not courteous.

And I like how you're using demeaning language to talk dowm at Australia, when Melbourne is the "most livable country in the world", so yeah. Think of that shit before slandering other people's nations, you racist fuckwit.

Nice recession btw. Sick cuntry you live in.

Well. Looks like your community deserve every piece of shit that was thrown at you.
BTW, I dont care.

Also, did you understand, that you do not need low ping to trade or move in Strategus? Or it's too hard to understand for you?
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Black Wind on November 05, 2011, 02:56:51 pm
Well. Looks like your community deserves* every piece of shit that is* thrown at it*
BTW, I dont care.

Also, do* you understand, that you do not need low ping to trade or move in Strategus? Or is it* too hard to understand?

Well, if your ability with the English language allows you to type sentences that actually make sense, it might help. Here, I corrected it for you, seeing that I am not a retard, and can type/write adequately.

And no, I didn't understand it. Because this is an illogical suggestion, as every time something breaks, you'd need to get it fixed... -on Strategus-. I for one, have never engaged in Strat, and I don't intend to. If anything, I agree with the OP, and suggest lowering upkeep on items; with plate, horses, flamberge, arbalest and such being exempt. This would allow it so tincan/heavy cavalry is not a viable playstyle.

I don't agree with your Strat/cRPG intergration idea though, as it seems that it'll take too much effort to repair shit that breaks alot.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Kalam on November 05, 2011, 05:30:59 pm
Keep this on topic.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: owens on November 05, 2011, 11:07:20 pm
I dont like this forum much atm.

Here is my point.

*heirlooms break just as much as normal weapons even though they are superior.(realism)                                                         realism

*Gen 2,3 or more builds have only the advantage of a few extra damage (isnt this an RPG)                                                          gameplay

*some weapons that are inferior ie. heavy great sword could do with a buff over their slightly better equivalents.              balance

*diversity could be improved if some load outs that were previously slightly to expensive were viable                                          gameplay

*most players are of more than first gen anyway. So how unfair would it be?                                                                                (this is simple justification)




also AUS, JAPAN and NEW ZEALAND have real issues using servers with 250-420 ping (depending whether EU or NA) moving is difficult  and loading slow. either we get our own strat servers or repairing through strat is silly and will be the finishing blow to cRPG in Australia and New Zealand that we have been waiting for.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Vibe on November 07, 2011, 02:54:12 pm
I dont like owens much atm.

Here is my point.

*clueless of how the game works                    realism

*clueless of the current advantages of heirlooms                       realism

*australian                     realism
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Black Wind on November 07, 2011, 03:49:50 pm
I dont like owens much atm.

Here is my point.

*clueless of how the game works                    realism

*clueless of the current advantages of heirlooms                       realism

*australian                     realism

I swear, you just swamp each thread with a negative point of view. We don't need your thread litter. Gtfo you cancer.



And I am surprised you still don't understand what he is suggesting.

Summary: A Well-Made Crossbow shoukd break less than a standard one, or how is it well-made in the first place?

A masterwork weapon should break less than a standard one, as it's masterwork

I emphasized the 'work', because an it shows that it has been 'worked' into a better state.

If you disagree, here's another example. Twmpering is a technique used to increase metal strength. So, why should a stronger blade break less than a weaker one?

Get it now?
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Vibe on November 07, 2011, 03:57:31 pm
I swear, you just swamp each thread with a negative point of view. We don't need your thread litter. Gtfo you cancer.



And I am surprised you still don't understand what he is suggesting.

Summary: A Well-Made Crossbow shoukd break less than a standard one, or how is it well-made in the first place?

A masterwork weapon should break less than a standard one, as it's masterwork

I emphasized the 'work', because an it shows that it has been 'worked' into a better state.

If you disagree, here's another example. Twmpering is a technique used to increase metal strength. So, why should a stronger blade break less than a weaker one?

Get it now?

And I'm saying that looms are OP enough and no matter what item titles say they SHOULD NOT break less. This is the same as reducing upkeep. You're just giving more advantages to people who grind more.

Idiotic suggestion by an idiotic person supported by idiots.
Title: Re: Heir loomed weapons break less
Post by: Dexxtaa on November 07, 2011, 04:08:55 pm
And I'm saying that looms are OP enough and no matter what item titles say they SHOULD NOT break less. This is the same as reducing upkeep. You're just giving more advantages to people who grind more.

Idiotic suggestion by an idiotic person supported by idiots.

While Vibe does post an opposing point of view on the forums, he is also one of the major factors in keeping a level head on the community by holding us accountable to our stupid suggestions.

Heirlooms should not break less, car analogy on first page. And while I may be less brusque than Vibe on this, I agree wholeheartedly with the spirit of his post.