cRPG

cRPG => Game Admin Feedback => Topic started by: Diomedes on October 09, 2011, 03:19:54 am

Title: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Diomedes on October 09, 2011, 03:19:54 am
I've been getting feedback from a few players and the most common criticism is that I should be in spectator mode more often for the start of rounds.  How do other people feel about my job so far?
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Troyicide on October 09, 2011, 03:33:55 am
I think you do a fine job compared to others who are clearly bias toward some players.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: awesomeasaurus on October 09, 2011, 04:27:05 am
I think you do a fine job compared to others who are clearly bias toward some players.

Seconded
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: POOPHAMMER on October 09, 2011, 04:36:57 am
You are good man, keep up the good work
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Achelous on October 09, 2011, 05:35:31 am
lol what admins not aloud to play and enjoy the game, i think you doing fine. . .
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Reinhardt on October 09, 2011, 06:25:35 am
Yous a boss.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Digglez on October 09, 2011, 06:43:07 am
From the few times I've seen you, you do a good firm & consistent job.  We appreciate the times you give up playin to go spec to watch problem players.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Slamz on October 09, 2011, 08:50:58 am
Good work today on NA_CRPG_1.  I had just logged in and people were raging on Vent about the asshattery going on and were suggesting we move to siege just to get away from it.  Then you started to lay the smackdown and we were able to settle in for a long session of good gaming.

A lot of vets get too comfortable with doing whatever they feel like and getting away with it, and too many admins go in for favoritism -- letting a big name vet get away with something that they would have insta-banned anyone else for.  You don't seem to do that and it's greatly appreciated and really helps the servers you admin on be a good place to play.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Miley on October 14, 2011, 06:54:41 am
Bad of course.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Diomedes on October 29, 2011, 07:39:22 pm
Bumping this for folks who don't know it's here.  Also because I've been more active as an admin recently.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 28, 2012, 08:04:39 am
Selective admin at best.

Muted then banned me for questioning his administrative choices.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Dach on January 28, 2012, 08:12:20 am
You sure you got the right admin? Dio been inactive for the past 3 month... at least...  :?
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 28, 2012, 08:19:36 am
I'm currently banned from NA1 because of him.

He came in and immediately jumped on those questioning the decisions of fellow admin Saq (it was in less polite terms, sure, but everything on the internet is hyperbolic)

Muted me for calling Saq a shitty admin and typing "hahaha" when I killed him.

He just spammed "Go to the forums if you have a complaint," and then banned me.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Supreme_Leader on January 28, 2012, 08:20:16 am
Selective admin at best.

Muted then banned me for questioning his administrative choices.

Seconded. Badmin is bad.

(click to show/hide)

I see no chat abuse here.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 28, 2012, 08:22:56 am
The "non-chat" chat I was "spamming" was asking him what his justifications were, and calling him out on being a bad admin.

If that's a chargeable offense then you should ban everyone who utters "badmin"
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: MyBallsYourChin on January 28, 2012, 09:04:16 am
Thirded.  This guy told me to shut up after I complained he was doing nothing about me being intentionally tk'd and teamwounded.  He stated there wasn't enough evidence, however, I've posted the same evidence available to him in the chat logs and had the people banned by someone who actually gives a shit.

Strip him of his powers and ban him for being incompetent.

Pic of him telling me to shut up:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/2012012800004.jpg/)
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Diomedes on January 28, 2012, 11:22:04 pm
You're ignoring the context of my comment.  You were spamming chat, both admin and general, and being a real pain in the ass.  You reported a player to me for teamwounding/tk-ing and I warned them.  You then went after me aggressively for not being aggressive enough.  I responded that having not seen the incident myself I couldn't just ban them outright.  I made it clear that if it happened again I would take more significant action besides warning the alleged rule-breaker.

I could have gone spectator and watched the offending player.  I could have gone spectator and watched you for a few rounds.  I could have responded to every comment you made - including the many insulting and unduly rude comments made in both general and admin chat.  I didn't.  Why?  Because I was one person looking after 110 players on a large map after taking three months away from cRPG.  I wanted to play the game, make sure folks had an okay time, and hang out with people I haven't hung out with in a while.  Instead I got lambasted in green text and insulted as 'the worst admin' by players who had never encountered me before.  I didn't see repeated offences and so made sure not to punish players unduly.  This is my policy, whether or not it's an acceptable standard I'm no longer sure.

If Shik, or anyone else with the powers, decides to take away my admin powers then I'm happy to let go of them.  I came back to have fun and instead got shit.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 28, 2012, 11:27:46 pm
Silly people, why you spam green text?
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: MyBallsYourChin on January 29, 2012, 12:29:09 am
Silly people, why you spam green text?

You weren't there.  Please don't opine on things you know nothing about.

Sootnik:

No, I wasn't spamming.  And as can be seen from HeroZero's ban being lifted for supposedly "spamming", your judgement in that area is lacking, to say the least.
I was, however, complaining.  You are an admin, a special responsibility reserved for just a few of us.  I'm terribly sorry that you wanted to play, and couldn't take but a few minutes out of your very busy day to go spectator and watch the fucking gong show that was taking place around you.

I'm sure your lackadaisical approach to administrating the servers rules were acceptable at one point in time, but as you said, when 110 people are online, a more aggressive posture is indeed required.  I had every right to complain about you and I stand by my opinion (and apparently others as well) that you are a bad admin. 

Banning people on a whim simply because you don't like them criticizing your actions is hardly what I would call acceptable.  Further, telling people to shut up when they want you to actually do your job is nearly as bad.  Grow up.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 29, 2012, 12:46:32 am
You weren't there.  Please don't opine on things you know nothing about.

Really? Last time I checked, me, Saifa and a whole bunch of Fallen were actually there that night. I even participated in the chat-spam of rage lulzy rage. Dio was even using a Fallen banner and acting as my bodyguard for the whole time.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Diomedes on January 29, 2012, 01:03:15 am
Banning people on a whim simply because you don't like them criticizing your actions is hardly what I would call acceptable.  Further, telling people to shut up when they want you to actually do your job is nearly as bad.  Grow up.

I told you to shut up because you were being unduly vehement - at that particular point - and were contributing nothing but grief to the scenario.  Had another TK occurred I would likely have acted in but, since it didn't, I didn't.   Also, as I've already made clear, I banned Hero for spamming chat, repeatedly ignoring admin requests, and to hammer home the message that he ought to cool down and take his grievances to the forum.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: isatis on January 29, 2012, 01:06:20 am
seriously what is wrong with you guy?

« admin harsh with me (not at all because I insult them) they say bad word in pink text nad ban/kick/warn me! it's ab00ze and therefore I gonna make this baddie out so i can enjoy better game!»

NO I don't have all the context , BUT I do have some experience in this game and when I look at your pic all I see is an admin TRYING to control a mob of player. screaming on admin IG will only get you BANNED or KICKED. the good way to do it is:

pressing the ''i'' button and assuming the admin may not see it, repeating the same message at medium interval, keeping good tone of voice(writing) and TAKING DAMN SCREENSHOT to report this on forum if admin don't do a thing,  is a good way to get e-justice.
an even better way:
taking SCREENSHOT and say to the admin IG: i'll make a threat about X and Y on forum with screen shot, please take a look when dead.

asking for removal of admin power will only lead you to less na admin we already loose one because of that (I understand more now Tears... they are crazy)

also some random quote:

No one is/should forced to do anything. It's a free mod, you're not getting paid. Play and do it where you feel comfortable.
This.



Quote from: cmpxchg8b
Quote from: Dalhi on December 24, 2011, 05:07:27
Good luck with your applications guys, just remember that being an admin is a job.

Not sure where this misconception has originated from (it was mentioned several times in this thread alone), but it couldn't be more wrong.
What we want is a guy who plays the game, cares about the game and can spare some of his time to improve it for others. What we do not want is someone who sees it as a job, because it's not a job, you don't get paid for it, and if we expected someone to spectate for hours just watching people for no other reason than sense of community, we'd be naive idiots. We already had that once, and you all know how it ended.


  Grow up.

seeing your name I don't think you can tell that to other.

I'm sure your lackadaisical approach to administrating the servers rules were acceptable at one point in time, but as you said, when 110 people are online, a more aggressive posture is indeed required.  I had every right to complain about you and I stand by my opinion (and apparently others as well) that you are a bad admin. 

Banning people on a whim simply because you don't like them criticizing your actions is hardly what I would call acceptable.  Further, telling people to shut up when they want you to actually do your job is nearly as bad.  Grow up.

basically what cmp said, you have the right to think one admin is bad, what you people seem to forget is that admin are free worker, therefore in right of NOT USING their power all the time. The only think they cannot do is AB00ZE their power.


Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 29, 2012, 01:24:35 am
It should be worth noting that "I" chat is used to report incidents to admin, if you want to spew anything else use these forums or normal chat, otherwise spamming green text makes it extremely difficult for Admins to see real problems.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: MyBallsYourChin on January 29, 2012, 01:46:11 am
Not that he would have responded to those real problems.  He wanted to hang out with his buddies, remember?

Cockon, or whatever you name is, using my name as an example of "maturity" is pretty weak and is the standard go to when trying to bring down my arguments.  Try harder.

Your cmp quote works both ways.  The position is volunteer.  If they volunteered for this position, then they should know the responsibility that comes with it.  A volunteer nurse doesn't one day decide to neglect her duties because she isn't being paid.  Your argument is as faulty as your grasp of the English language.

Sootnik:

"Hey OJ, we didn't see you kill those people, despite there being evidence that points towards it.  We're going to keep an eye on you and if you murder those people again we'll punish you."

Excuse me for being vehement about you doing your job. 
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Diomedes on January 29, 2012, 03:03:51 am
OJ thing

That analogy doesn't capture the scenario.  If a TK occurs, and somebody says to me "Hey, that guy Mr. X killed me on purpose!" then it would be wrong for me to censure Mr. X on that evidence alone.  Not only do I have no corroborating evidence, like witnesses, screenshots, or a known personal history of offense, but it gives the accused no benefit of the doubt.  That's why I said I'd take action if it happened again, and I likely would've taken action if any more reports had come in similar to yours.  None did, so I didn't do anything besides warn.

And you seem to miss the point about vehemence here.  It really has no place in chat, towards other players or admin.  If you get pissy at somebody for accidentally hurting you your anger isn't going to do anything to resolve the situation.  And if you get pissy with an admin/me I'm no more likely to take you seriously than if you'd submitted your initial request and moved on.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: isatis on January 29, 2012, 03:39:00 am
Not that he would have responded to those real problems.  He wanted to hang out with his buddies, remember?

Cockon, or whatever you name is, using my name as an example of "maturity" is pretty weak and is the standard go to when trying to bring down my arguments.  Try harder.

Your cmp quote works both ways.  The position is volunteer.  If they volunteered for this position, then they should know the responsibility that comes with it.  A volunteer nurse doesn't one day decide to neglect her duties because she isn't being paid.  Your argument is as faulty as your grasp of the English language.

Sootnik:

"Hey OJ, we didn't see you kill those people, despite there being evidence that points towards it.  We're going to keep an eye on you and if you murder those people again we'll punish you."

Excuse me for being vehement about you doing your job.

I'll try harder:
comparing admin to nurse, teamkill to murder, and volunteer to job is a sign that you take the game maybe a bit too seriously.

cockon (maturity :wink:)... wow... google translator? Cochon, spelled co/shon French for pig. (yeah I know that in English coch have the sound of cock but that was an easy joke about maturity  :wink:)

yep using your name was weak indeed, but it was a funny fact  :D

yep my English is bad, but should I put it in French so you would understand better?

I have nothing personal against you Balls, you have the right to complain about admin if you feel the need to. The only thing i found astonishing is the conception of admin some of you got. It's normal that an human don't see everything, you have bunch of tool to help admin including report of teamwound, screenshot and ''i'' chat. If you want something to be done against griefer, just ask an admin, if he don't act, go in forum and pop a ban topic and, if you want, a little private message to admin so he can explain.

for sure all this comment is useless but I love to write: it's a practice for my bad English.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: MyBallsYourChin on January 29, 2012, 03:49:54 am
Your argument is based upon the fact that I take this game too seriously.  None of which presents any holes in my logic.  Analogy stands and you're still out of your league, cockon.

I'm bringing my grief to the forums, the appropriate place to do so.  Again, I have NO idea why you're posting in this thread, aside from practicing your English, where I'm sure there are other mediums to do so where you won't be taking up space with irrelevant bullshit.

Sootnik, the evidence I presented to Dark Karma was available to you and was enough for the players in question to be banned.  You have no argument.
Your opinion on what chat is and isn't for is your opinion, which is clearly the wrong opinion because as I've stated before, HeroZero's ban was lifted after it was reviewed that your action was far more severe than it needed to be.  You were tired of hearing people complain about your inaction and you acted rashly. 

Perhaps in the future you should be the one who needs to take a break from the action and come in with a cool head and do the tasks you signed up to do.  I've said what I have to say; I'm done with this thread.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Diomedes on January 29, 2012, 04:11:07 am
You were tired of hearing people complain about your inaction and you acted rashly. 


You told me the player teamkilled/teamwounded - I didn't see anything else.  If it was on the forum already then it was my bad for not seeing it, but as I've already made clear I haven't been to this forum in months and generally leave the forum review to those more familiar with the active griefers.

Karma's opinion on the matter is his own, especially since I haven't yet talked to him about this, and it's an understood fact that some admins will reverse decisions if they feel they should.  If he feels I acted rashly then that's his opinion of my decision.  My opinion is that I didn't. 

EDIT: Upon discussing it somewhat with the admins I realize I acted harshly when giving a 12 hour ban.  Six hours would probably have done the same job in half the time.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 29, 2012, 10:29:13 pm
As an admin you've already shown an inexcusable amount of bias already. The logs were reviewed and you were deemed to be incorrect. I think that should be the first thing that is mentioned.

You were wrong.

This was the point that I was concentrating on during my "spamming" I was just trying to eek out some form of justification for your actions beyond "If you have a problem submit it on the forums."

This is it, and you've been tarred and feathered to the point where your adminship should be on review. You are a bad admin, and if you continue to act in such a biased way I think you should be removed from the staff.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 29, 2012, 10:30:50 pm
It sounds like the only problem was it being twelve hours not six. :|
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 29, 2012, 10:40:00 pm
All you Fallen can scramble and grasp at straws for your failing admin, but try to take a step back and look at this from an objective standpoint.

His approval rating is negative, and there are multiple active voices against him. All the defense in here is from a single party - Fallen.

What's to be said of this fact?
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 29, 2012, 10:42:04 pm
Um, isatis is not fallen, and "our admin" dio is not fallen either...
Out of the three of us, only one of us is Fallen... So...

Lol?

Is this "fact" the same as you telling me not to speak because "I was not there" even though I was?

I'm not sure how you can say "look at it from an objective view" when you are 1 directly involved and 2 keep getting "facts" wrong too...  :|

So from an objective viewpoint this

His approval rating is negative, and there are multiple active voices against him. All the defense in here is from a single party - Fallen.

What's to be said of this fact?

Is proven false.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 29, 2012, 11:00:18 pm
You seem to be unable to separate me and LLJK's complaints, so let me put this simply.

One night, two complaints. One unjustified ban, and one incident left unresolved.

His poll here is negative.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 29, 2012, 11:04:57 pm
You seem to be unable to separate me and LLJK's complaints, so let me put this simply.

One night, two complaints. One unjustified ban, and one incident left unresolved.

His poll here is negative.

See, now you are stating facts and more reasonable personal opinions, instead of a Fallen conspiracy, this I can accept.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 29, 2012, 11:15:35 pm
You're ignoring the context of my comment.  You were spamming chat, both admin and general, and being a real pain in the ass.  You reported a player to me for teamwounding/tk-ing and I warned them.  You then went after me aggressively for not being aggressive enough.  I responded that having not seen the incident myself I couldn't just ban them outright.  I made it clear that if it happened again I would take more significant action besides warning the alleged rule-breaker.

I could have gone spectator and watched the offending player.  I could have gone spectator and watched you for a few rounds.  I could have responded to every comment you made - including the many insulting and unduly rude comments made in both general and admin chat.  I didn't.  Why?  Because I was one person looking after 110 players on a large map after taking three months away from cRPG.  I wanted to play the game, make sure folks had an okay time, and hang out with people I haven't hung out with in a while.  Instead I got lambasted in green text and insulted as 'the worst admin' by players who had never encountered me before.  I didn't see repeated offences and so made sure not to punish players unduly.  This is my policy, whether or not it's an acceptable standard I'm no longer sure.

If Shik, or anyone else with the powers, decides to take away my admin powers then I'm happy to let go of them.  I came back to have fun and instead got shit.

You get what you give. This is not just your personal playground. We're here to have fun too.

Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Diomedes on January 30, 2012, 01:05:29 am
One night, two complaints. One unjustified ban, and one incident left unresolved.

His poll here is negative.

After discussing it with the admins we've found that the ban was itself warranted but that the length was unduly long.  The other issue you mention is actually two distinct questions: (a) was I right to tell a player to "shut up" for spamming chat? and (b) ought I to have acted against the reported player?  In the case of (a) I find myself justified, because filling both the green and general chat with abuse and unnecessary complaints isn't appropriate ("use common sense" => take these problems to the forum).  In the case of (b) I find myself justified in not banning the alleged abuser on the grounds that it's reasonable that not every admin check the forums in order to find and judge rule-breakers.  The evidence required to make the decision on the forums was not, at the time, evident to me in-game.  Dark Karma afterwards went ahead and reviewed the evidence on the forum and dealt with that case as it was due. 

Beyond this I don't see what else there is to say.  The admin agree that I was justified in issuing a ban, and I find myself justified in telling spammers to take their grievances to the forum.  As for the poll - okay.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Glaurung on January 30, 2012, 01:14:51 am
Why are you making such a drama out of this?

Every time an admin kick someone, it goes like this in the chat:

-"ABOOOSE"
-" WTF ADMIN YOU FUCKING CUNT"
- "omg admin is an idiot loololoolol"
- "That was not delaying you cocksucker"
- "worst admin ever"

etc...

Chill out. Don't get surprised if an admin can't take all that crap anymore. For every good decisions they make, there's one guy that will always disapprove. Even if the admin is wrong and you are right, no need to make such a story out of it. Admins are allowed to make errors from time to time.

As a general rule, don't be an ass when talking to people. They might listen to you more carefully.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 30, 2012, 01:17:06 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Diomedes on January 30, 2012, 01:33:51 am
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 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/28/kcelc.jpg/)
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: isatis on January 30, 2012, 02:09:43 am
(click to show/hide)

LOL!! (you would have gained a +1 if I could, rage!)

All you Fallen can scramble and grasp at straws for your failing admin, but try to take a step back and look at this from an objective standpoint.

His approval rating is negative, and there are multiple active voices against him. All the defense in here is from a single party - Fallen.

What's to be said of this fact?

cool i'm a fallen now! Oh wait... so now i must hate occitan! oh no! they my ally and french buddies!! OMG what can I do?

Um, isatis is not fallen, and "our admin" dio is not fallen either...
Out of the three of us, only one of us is Fallen... So...


ouf Tears saved me from this hate cycle!



*cough* goodmin *cough*

Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 30, 2012, 02:32:51 am
The fact that you chose to ban me instead of others that have far more offensive "spam" is the main problem here. I was "spamming" about you, and your inadequacies as an admin. While others constantly spam racist, homophobic, and generally destructive speech.

I wasn't banned because I spammed anything; I was banned because I hurt your feelings.

If you want to take out your anger on cRPG I suggest that you do so through playing, and give up your ability to affect other's good times.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Diomedes on January 30, 2012, 02:58:00 am
The fact that you chose to ban me instead of others that have far more offensive "spam" is the main problem here. I was "spamming" about you, and your inadequacies as an admin. While others constantly spam racist, homophobic, and generally destructive speech.

I wasn't banned because I spammed anything; I was banned because I hurt your feelings.

I did not ban you because you offended me or for anything remotely similar to that.  I ban people who don't use their common sense in-game, and who don't listen to admin instructions.  After being muted (and deliberately circumventing the mute) you continued in your same course unabated.  The mute was for what you were doing, the ban was for not taking a hint ('go to the forums!  This isn't the place for this kind of discussion").  The ban succeeded, somewhat, in that it got you onto here instead of filling up my screen with angry white and green text.

As for other players acting inappropriately I deal with them on a case by case basis.  Last night I warned a player because it was reported to me that he was saying racist things in teamchat.  The night before that I warned players twice for not "being civil" in chat.  Where you're different from these cases is that you persisted despite repeated warnings to the contrary.  I gave you ample opportunity to stop what you were doing and suggested alternative ways to vent about your problems (the forums!). 

Though it's true that I don't catch everything this isn't news to anybody.  The reason why we have green-text chat is specifically so that significant things can be brought to our attention which we may have missed.  It's not for hectoring or any kind of debate. 
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 30, 2012, 03:41:57 am
Are you sure? Because that's what it seemed like. The line between intention and perception is one that you fail to grasp. People felt that I was banned unjustly and you did nothing but spam the same message over and over.

So your motivations are negligible in this discussion, and your inability to discern this dichotomy shows a very real and very explicit flaw in your ability to moderate.

I did not circumvent the mute on purpose, I alt-tab crashed, reconnected and found myself able to speak again. Of course I continued on my way ripping you apart because you had not provided anything of constructive worth. Which was to expose the fact that you are a terrible admin.

How can you sit there and say it wasn't for personal offence? The first thing you told me when you first entered the server was to not insult admins. Why not? Any other player is open to the gauntlet if they act like a jackass. You all should be as well.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 30, 2012, 04:08:03 am
Meow himself said that his ban decision was supported by other official powers.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 30, 2012, 04:10:54 am
Under the misunderstanding of my "mute circumventing".
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Diomedes on January 30, 2012, 04:59:18 am
Are you sure?

Yep.

Quote
I did not circumvent the mute on purpose, I alt-tab crashed, reconnected and found myself able to speak again. Of course I continued on my way ripping you apart because you had not provided anything of constructive worth. Which was to expose the fact that you are a terrible admin.

So after having the mute removed accidentally you just took advantage of the opportunity to, once again, ignore an admin's explicit instructions?  Even after I told you to take your issues to the forum?  You're not helping your case, and certainly not doing anything to engender sympathy among the admins.

Quote
How can you sit there and say it wasn't for personal offence? The first thing you told me when you first entered the server was to not insult admins. Why not? Any other player is open to the gauntlet if they act like a jackass. You all should be as well.

The server rules are quite explicit about not insulting people.  This rule does not have a codified standard of enforcement, though, because cases of insulting and griefing are so context-dependent. 

You were vehemently going after admins in general chat.  Not only is this completely unproductive (cp: "go to the forums") but it has a terrible effect on the in-game atmosphere.  When one person is trying to moderate over 100 at 1AM such hectoring completely undermines the admin in precisely the case when he ought not be undermined.  Hectoring admins corrodes the first and [ideally] inalienable relationship of respect between caretakers and players.  Whether or not you like or agree with our decisions is irrelevant to whether they must be followed.  Admin instructions must be respected or an essential part of our apparatus for guiding servers into being safe and fun environments goes out the window. 

The way to get by in cRPG is to (1) do what the admins say, (2) take up issues along the appropriate channels, and (3) try to have fun.  If you can't do all three of these then you've no place on the official servers.  Ignoring (1) can make our job incredibly hard, awful, and so pragmatically brutal.  Ignoring (2) leaves you frustrated, because ignoring (2) means you will effect no meaningful change.  The forum exists for players to use as a platform for discussion, and without discussion you'll accomplish no change in a community-driven mod.  Ignoring (3) is self-evidently foolish.  If you're not having fun with the game leave it and do something else.  The world is bigger than cRPG, and it may be that you just need a break.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Voso on January 30, 2012, 05:32:51 am
Quote
I did not circumvent the mute on purpose, I alt-tab crashed, reconnected and found myself able to speak again. Of course I continued on my way ripping you apart because you had not provided anything of constructive worth. Which was to expose the fact that you are a terrible admin.


So you are admitting that you were aware you were muted and after rejoining the server you tried to speak again in order to see if the mute was gone? You are also admitting that after realizing the mute was gone you decided to continue doing what earned you the mute in the first place?

The fact that you chose to ban me instead of others that have far more offensive "spam" is the main problem here. I was "spamming" about you, and your inadequacies as an admin. While others constantly spam racist, homophobic, and generally destructive speech.

You are admitting that you spammed offensive insults toward an admin? Your main excuse is "other people were spamming too"?


Oh my. I honestly have no idea why you are surprised you got banned.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Diomedes on January 30, 2012, 05:46:40 am
more levity:

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Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 30, 2012, 06:14:39 am
Voso, you obviously lack the capacity to understand what I said in that statement you quoted, but yeah sure let's go with what you said.

I think this displays a concrete difference in the way we're defining this game. I think the first priority should be having fun, and lastly obeying the admins every whim. The admins should be a part of the community not apart from it.

Sure the server has rules against making fun of other people, but do you deny that it happens nearly every minute of every round played? That insults were being expressed even as you singled me out for punishment? So you're going to continue to stick to your argument that I was banned because I spammed chat and not because I directed my insults at the ability-lacking moderation staff present? 

If the former is true then let's go with Voso's counter argument that many other people were spamming chat. If it's the latter then why should you guys be afforded any more rights than the rest of us? People bear greater insults than I made to you on a daily basis on NA1.

So now I've utilized the appropriate channels, and now I'm waiting for justice (getting a new admin to replace a bad one).
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Voso on January 30, 2012, 06:25:42 am
Voso, you obviously lack the capacity to understand what I said in that statement you quoted, but yeah sure let's go with what you said.

Ah I apologize then. No need to be a jerk about it, man.  :(

I have changed my decision about getting involved in your argument. You have admitted to what you have done wrong, you have been told by multiple admins that his decision was justified, and yet you continue to rage.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 30, 2012, 06:30:39 am
Ah I apologize then. No need to be a jerk about it, man.  :(


It doesn't change the fact that your ban was justified.

Clearly not, because my ban was lifted almost immediately.

The grounds listed were since debunked by both this topic and the logs. I know I'm being an ass in many ways, but this guy is just too proud to admit that he did wrong. That's all I want. Just for Sootnik_Diomedes to type out that he was wrong in banning me, and that he practices an ineffective and highly biased form of moderation.

His resignation would be a bonus, but I'm not holding my breath.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Voso on January 30, 2012, 06:43:34 am
Clearly not, because my ban was lifted almost immediately.

The grounds listed were since debunked by both this topic and the logs. I know I'm being an ass in many ways, but this guy is just too proud to admit that he did wrong. That's all I want. Just for Sootnik_Diomedes to type out that he was wrong in banning me, and that he practices an ineffective and highly biased form of moderation.

His resignation would be a bonus, but I'm not holding my breath.

Diomedes has offered that were his actions wrong, for his admin to be removed. It has been decided through discussion that you deserved a ban. He admitted that the ban he dished out was a bit long, there isn't really anything else for him to admit to.

I would have banned you too. Whether accidentally or not (I really don't believe your story that you crashed, rejoined, and just happened to notice you could talk again, but that is beside the point.), you evaded a mute and continued doing what you were warned not do and given the mute for in the first place. That fact stands as grounds for a ban.



I think the first priority should be having fun, and lastly obeying the admins every whim.

I agree that you should have fun, but its not like he was telling you to respec cav. I'd say in the future, just be quiet and enjoy the game instead of insulting people.

How hard is it to obey an admins request to take your complaints to the forum? Seriously?
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Diomedes on January 30, 2012, 06:48:33 am
I think this displays a concrete difference in the way we're defining this game. I think the first priority should be having fun, and lastly obeying the admins every whim. The admins should be a part of the community not apart from it.

I numbered those statements for clarity, not according to their cardinal rank or priority.  I demonstrated this in my note by saying that one has to do all three in order to get by in cRPG.

Quote
Sure the server has rules against making fun of other people, but do you deny that it happens nearly every minute of every round played? That insults were being expressed even as you singled me out for punishment? So you're going to continue to stick to your argument that I was banned because I spammed chat and not because I directed my insults at the ability-lacking moderation staff present?

Players do make fun of one another, yes, but rarely are people so persistent in their abuse or fundamentally hectoring as you were.  I told you to desist because any complaints you have about administrators ought to have been taken to the forum rather than extended in chat.  I was particular in my initial comment that players ought not criticize admins in chat for reasons I've already covered.

I think I'm about done with this conversation.  I don't think I've much more to say that isn't already obvious.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Smoothrich on January 30, 2012, 08:51:22 am
HeroZero I think I speak on behalf of the NA administration staff and the playerbase when I say ..

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Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 30, 2012, 02:48:31 pm
Oh come on don't give up. This is fun to me. I really should have went to law school.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 30, 2012, 05:55:14 pm
Oh come on don't give up. This is fun to me. I really should have went to law school.

To obtain the ability to have proper arguements? Yes, because lord knows you need it, like ignoring repeated facts that the administration supports the ban, or confusing everyone in dio's defense to be Fallen, etc.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 30, 2012, 06:16:36 pm
Oh Tears, I've presented more evidence than any of my naysayers. Try to reread my posts with some other hat on.

I've presented a concise and relevant case. The defense continues to repeat the same things (which I've debunked).
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 30, 2012, 06:55:03 pm
HeroZero I think I speak on behalf of the NA administration staff and the playerbase when I say ..

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Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 30, 2012, 07:55:40 pm
gg
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: isatis on January 30, 2012, 10:47:26 pm
I really love the wannabe lawyer

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: oohillac on January 30, 2012, 11:23:37 pm
A most excellent admin, in part simply because he is actually online. Seriously, we need more NA admins, chat and delaying BS is getting out of hand. Dio, stay in-game later  :D   

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Dach on January 31, 2012, 01:53:45 am
Ooo there was a thread about it, don't remember where it went...

OR

you could try to PM your application to Shik.  :)
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: oohillac on January 31, 2012, 03:22:38 am
okie dokie, thanks

sorry for the derail

Keep up the awesome adimining, Dio!
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Diomedes on January 31, 2012, 04:06:54 am
Dio, stay in-game later  :D   

This is what I look like when I play cRPG late at night:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: HeroZero on January 31, 2012, 04:14:41 am
I take it as a sign of resignation.

I won.
Title: Re: [NA] Sootnik_Diomedes
Post by: Diomedes on January 31, 2012, 04:28:14 am
I take it as a sign of resignation.

I won.

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