cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Tristan on September 29, 2011, 04:01:16 pm

Title: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Tristan on September 29, 2011, 04:01:16 pm
With arrows deciding pierce damage there is no reason to use the Longbow.

I'm speak on behalf of a friend here. Find a niche for it by tweaking the stats somehow?
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: kono yaro! on September 29, 2011, 08:40:10 pm
Does that friend of yours happen to be Nelo?
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Digglez on September 29, 2011, 10:12:27 pm
well its got the highest missile speed, but not by enough.  should be 5 or more higher than the next highest bow
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Diomedes on September 29, 2011, 11:11:02 pm
x2 damage against armoured horses.  Make it the whale-killer.  Or, the ol' longstanding alternative, let it work alternately as a crap polearm weapon.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Rogue_Eagle on September 30, 2011, 07:43:53 am
Make it 50 pierce damage with  longer draw time by 3x.
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Cyclopsided on September 30, 2011, 08:16:42 am
I support a damage increase like this: +3 dmg + 1 missile speed -1 reload speed

Give it the slow-but-cannon niche. It lost it recently.
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Matey on September 30, 2011, 08:32:14 am
give longbow knockdown! trolololol
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: indigocylinder on September 30, 2011, 08:49:43 am
polearm alternate mode because that would be hilarious.
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on September 30, 2011, 03:59:18 pm
Anyone here ever played with the longbow? o.O

If you reduce the reloadingtime you can even more throw it away....the only prob with the longbow is it's speed, everything else is fine.

When you reduce the speed this stupid delay will be even worse than it is already :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Nelo on September 30, 2011, 04:28:37 pm
Quote from: kono yaro! on September 29, 2011, 08:40:10 pm
Does that friend of yours happen to be Nelo?

no.... why you believe that he talking about me?
im not the only one who think that long bow need a buff  :P
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: [ptx] on September 30, 2011, 05:07:19 pm
Delay is fucking awful, combined with the lack of ability to hold the arrow for even a split second.
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on September 30, 2011, 05:11:07 pm
Quote from: [ptx] on September 30, 2011, 05:07:19 pm
Delay is fucking awful, combined with the lack of ability to hold the arrow for even a split second.

Jup.

That's how it is atm^^
I know they fixed this delay a few patches ago but something went wrong with the last patch or the one before I think, because now there is a small delay again und you always miss the point where your reticule is smallest...No way to shoot at the perfect moment.
Yeah and it's kinda stupid that you can't hold the longbow for half a second whereas it perfectly works with the rus bow :/
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Diomedes on September 30, 2011, 05:17:24 pm
Quote from: Matey on September 30, 2011, 08:32:14 am
give longbow knockdown! trolololol

 :wink:

This could be interesting....
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gafferjack on September 30, 2011, 06:29:52 pm
Quote from: [ptx] on September 30, 2011, 05:07:19 pm
Delay is fucking awful, combined with the lack of ability to hold the arrow for even a split second.

Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on September 30, 2011, 05:11:07 pm
...now there is a small delay again, and you always miss the point where your reticule is smallest... ...it's kinda stupid that you can't hold the Long Bow for half a second whereas it perfectly works with the Rus Bow.

Get more WPF.

Ontopic: Personally, I think +2 damage and +2 drawspeed in addition to making the Long Bow as accurate as the Rus Bow would be a decent enough buff that the Long Bow wouldn't be completely worthless against the Rus Bow, as it is now. Either that or lower the Rus Bow's stats. But it's not like a dev is actually going to use this suggestion, so... why the fuck am I posting?
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: [ptx] on September 30, 2011, 06:44:26 pm
Quote from: Gafferjack on September 30, 2011, 06:29:52 pm
Get more WPF.

Ontopic: Personally, I think +2 damage and +2 drawspeed in addition to making the Long Bow as accurate as the Rus Bow would be a decent enough buff that the Long Bow wouldn't be completely worthless against the Rus Bow, as it is now. Either that or lower the Rus Bow's stats. But it's not like a dev is actually going to use this suggestion, so... why the fuck am I posting?
I have always gone for 18/24 pure archer builds.
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: justme on September 30, 2011, 08:58:56 pm
no.. balance others bows..
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 01, 2011, 09:43:14 am
Quote from: Gafferjack on September 30, 2011, 06:29:52 pm
Get more WPF.

Why do people always tell guys, who are archers for I don't know how many gens now, to get more wpf or powerdraw or whatever.
Do you all think we are too stupid to know how we have to play our class??

I'm lvl 32 with 7pd and 8wm, everything in archery so NO, I don't need any more wpf to be more accurate or whatever. The longbow has a delay which is fucking awful, point!

Quote from: Gafferjack on September 30, 2011, 06:29:52 pm
Ontopic: Personally, I think +2 damage and +2 drawspeed in addition to making the Long Bow as accurate as the Rus Bow would be a decent enough buff that the Long Bow wouldn't be completely worthless against the Rus Bow, as it is now. Either that or lower the Rus Bow's stats. But it's not like a dev is actually going to use this suggestion, so... why the fuck am I posting?

I don't get it, which one is more accurate in your view?
I think the accuracy is actually the same, only the time in which you can hold the drawn bow is shorter with the longbow.

reduce stats of rusbow? I'm fully with that^^
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: [ptx] on October 01, 2011, 12:15:51 pm
I wonder what actually determines how long you can hold a drawn bow? And is there a way to make this time longer for certain bows?
Just tested on a duel server - MW longbow vs stock warbow at 7 WM - both can hold an arrow for the same amount of time (something less than 0.3 seconds?), however the longbow suffers from this a lot more, since the delay makes it impossible to fire off an arrow whilst you have your max accuracy. A lot of longbows problems would be solved by allowing you to hold an arrow for a slightly longer time with it.
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gafferjack on October 01, 2011, 03:50:48 pm
Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 01, 2011, 09:43:14 am
I don't get it, which one is more accurate in your view?

Rus Bow is more accurate because it has less damage for the same accuracy stat. It's not a large difference in accuracy, but it matters past short range shooting.

Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 01, 2011, 09:43:14 am
Why do people always tell guys, who are archers for I don't know how many gens now, to get more WPF or powerdraw or whatever. Do you all think we are too stupid to know how we have to play our class??

Apparently, since I'm an 18/24 archer and can hold the reticle of the Long Bow and release at max accuracy perfectly fine. The only reason you're getting a non-max accuracy release is because you don't have enough WPF (usually from high PD, which reduces your effective WPF even more.) The 'delay' will always be present because of the speed stat of the Long Bow. If they don't modify the speed, you can only get rid of it with very high WPF.

Quote from: [ptx] on October 01, 2011, 12:15:51 pm
I wonder what actually determines how long you can hold a drawn bow? And is there a way to make this time longer for certain bows?

Drawspeed (with WPF taken into account), and PD over requirement (but this essentially negates itself for higher tier bows because of WPF reduction). So, basically, more WPF, more speed stat.
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 02, 2011, 12:40:27 am
This delay was already there before I reached my 7 pd :rolleyes:




Fasader told me that the time until the reticule starts growing is based on the stats of the bow and because the longbow has such high stats (I don't know which he means in general as we have a fucking slow speed and not that much more damage) it's reticule grows so fast. Which shouldn't happen with a bow that is soooo slow. If they don't want to increase the speed you should at least be able to hold the bow for 1 sec more :/

I tested the thiny with the reticule and my reticule grows faster with a mw longbow than with a nonloomed rusbow
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gafferjack on October 02, 2011, 03:32:35 am
Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 02, 2011, 12:40:27 am
This delay was already there before I reached my 7 PD :rolleyes:

Quote from: Gafferjack on October 01, 2011, 03:50:48 pm
The 'delay' will always be present... ...you can only get rid of it with very high WPF.

 :?
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 02, 2011, 11:23:33 am
Don't you get it?

I had 18/24 before having 21/24 and I already had that delay^^

And I don't think getting 9 wm would do any better ;)
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: [ptx] on October 02, 2011, 12:04:07 pm
Well, you can't get a 18/27 build at lvl30 or 31, so that is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 02, 2011, 08:28:50 pm
Indeed.

And I don't think it would change anything about this dely :/
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gafferjack on October 03, 2011, 04:24:00 am
Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 02, 2011, 11:23:33 am
Don't you get it?

Since you're going to be snide about it and misinterpret my post, I'll re-quote myself with emphasis and clarification:

Quote from: Gafferjack on October 01, 2011, 03:50:48 pm
The 'delay' will always be present... ...you can only get rid of it with very high WPF.

And by 'very high' I mean above 230, or so. So in other words, you can't get rid of it; not in the current state of cRPG. The fact that you had the delay before 7PD is perfectly normal and expected, so I don't know what point you were trying to make with that comment.
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Uumdi on October 03, 2011, 04:46:13 am
Just give it more missile speed.  That would be equally fair and badass.  Level 30 you'd be like an imperial age Longbowman in Age of Empires 2 (with the godlike bonuses in the conquerors expansion).  It doesn't need super sniper damage - that's not what its for.  It doesn't need pin point accuracy after holding for a whole second, thats not what its for either.  Just let it shoot really long distance projectiles.  Hahaha, maybe not quite Native archery, but halfway there.
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 03, 2011, 09:55:11 am
Gafferjack where is the sense in your post?

It should be possible to get rid of this delay without 230 wpf^^  Especially because only the longbow has it :/
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gafferjack on October 03, 2011, 07:57:51 pm
Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 03, 2011, 09:55:11 am
Gafferjack where is the sense in your post?

It should be possible to get rid of this delay without 230 WPF^^  Especially because only the Long Bow has it :/

What is this I don't even

I never implied that the Long Bow should have the delay, or that you shouldn't be able to get rid of it.

You have managed to deduce an entirely separate, unrelated meaning from the majority of my posts. Either this is an elaborate troll, or you need to work on your reading comprehension.
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 03, 2011, 08:02:38 pm
Actually I was talking about the longbow and it's delay and you were just saying "get more wpf".....sorry that I didn't consider your posts as trollposts in the first place, but it seems that's everything you wanted here :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gafferjack on October 03, 2011, 08:23:31 pm
Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 03, 2011, 08:02:38 pm
Actually I was talking about the Long Bow and it's delay and you were just saying "get more WPF".....sorry that I didn't consider your posts as trollposts in the first place, but it seems that's everything you wanted here :rolleyes:

More WPF will let you release at max-accuracy, will let you hold your reticle longer, and will lessen the delay (but not completely remove it, because that's impossible with the Long Bow's current speed and the current WPF progression.) So, yeah, getting more WPF will help. I'm failing to see where the sense in my original post is lacking; is it because I didn't immediately explain that you can't completely remove the delay, currently? I apologize, then.
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 03, 2011, 09:45:00 pm
No it's because you meant getting 2+ wpf although you yourself knew it's actually impossible, but you were still talking about it :lol:
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Gafferjack on October 04, 2011, 12:58:45 am
Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 03, 2011, 09:45:00 pm
No it's because you meant getting 200+ WPF although you yourself knew it's actually impossible, but you were still talking about it :lol:

Let's discount the fact that WPF still helps to reduce the delay (which happens to be an incredibly valid benefit of getting more WPF):

Quote from: [ptx] on September 30, 2011, 05:07:19 pm
Delay is fucking awful, combined with the lack of ability to hold the arrow for even a split second.

Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on September 30, 2011, 05:11:07 pm
...now there is a small delay again and you always miss the point where your reticule is smallest...No way to shoot at the perfect moment.

Quote from: Gafferjack on October 03, 2011, 08:23:31 pm
More WPF will let you release at max-accuracy, will let you hold your reticle longer, and will lessen the delay...

So, you're arguing that since I knew you couldn't completely eliminate the delay of the Long Bow, that even with all the other points I addressed, there was actually no sense to my post, just because of that one fact. Am I correct? Because if that's the case, I concede defeat to the unholy amount of retard logic I'm having to deal with.
Title: Re: Find a niche for the Longbow
Post by: Cyclopsided on October 04, 2011, 04:36:54 am
I think gaffer, Walt, and the devs are the last people I'd argue with about game mechanics. In that order.
They know their stuff.