cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: POOPHAMMER on September 29, 2011, 03:33:34 pm

Title: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: POOPHAMMER on September 29, 2011, 03:33:34 pm
Fuck banner balance, yea I will admit it is nice to play with friends and all, but it horribly disrupts the balance of things at times.

My suggestion: Have it so balance is determined by skill point. I have no idea if this is possible, but it would balance out the classes so one side wont outcav/outrange the other like it can sometimes.

I also just thought maybe add in a WPF factor too, just incase someone throws a point into power draw or something to throw it off
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points
Post by: Vibe on September 29, 2011, 03:36:30 pm
Balance somehow by Power Draw and Riding skill.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points
Post by: POOPHAMMER on September 29, 2011, 03:59:09 pm
Balance somehow by Power Draw and Riding skill.

yes this is what I am saying, it would be great
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: ROHYPNOL on September 29, 2011, 06:41:27 pm
there can never be no perfect balance.. nuff said
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Camaris on September 29, 2011, 06:49:41 pm
there can never be no perfect balance.. nuff said
nuff said?
or
nuffen said?
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: kono yaro! on September 29, 2011, 08:57:50 pm
there can never be no perfect balance.. nuff said

so what you're saying is... there can be perfect balance.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 29, 2011, 09:01:01 pm
so what you're saying is... there can be perfect balance.

Strictly speaking he is saying that there can never be an imbalance, and that it is always balanced... Which is an amusing statement.

You miss-used your "double negatives" rule.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Gorath on September 30, 2011, 07:41:20 am
Fuck banner balance

Fuck playing with pubbies and mixed teams not on VOIP.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Cepeshi on September 30, 2011, 07:53:57 am
You should never use no double negatives
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: PikeDan on September 30, 2011, 12:12:51 pm
However we approach this, it's going to end up lopsided either way. it doesn't feel *quite* as bad as it used to, however. I remember the days ATS and Hospitaller would somehow be on the same team and we'd just end up facerolling the entire server because the enemy team would be nothing but pubbies and maybe a few TS guys.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on September 30, 2011, 09:33:32 pm
man i swear people in clans are so biased about banner balance , or say they will quit if they dont have the chance to play with their clannies ,

    Freaking emos i swear  ,   sorry to burst your bubble but its not a fair system and it NEVER WILL,

 I dont care getting mobbed by the occassional full clan in a team ,  but when its everytime its RETARDED   
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 30, 2011, 09:39:31 pm
man i swear people in clans are so biased about banner balance , or say they will quit if they dont have the chance to play with their clannies ,

    Freaking emos i swear  ,   sorry to burst your bubble but its not a fair system and it NEVER WILL,

 I dont care getting mobbed by the occassional full clan in a team ,  but when its everytime its RETARDED

Unfortunately EU 5 is living proof that the majority of people do not want BB turned off. The masses have spoken.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on September 30, 2011, 09:42:24 pm
Unfortunately EU 5 is living proof that the majority of people do not want BB turned off. The masses have spoken.


You know  the average IQ drop in masses of people , follow other like sheeps and dont question anything :D

I also like to mention CRPG was fine and dandy without it and people were still playing , the argument about thoses server being empty is people are too lazy and prefer to join the more populated servers ,

  I bet you 300k that if you put NA 1 with banner off , its still gonna be full , because that the server people are used to  :D
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: MrShine on September 30, 2011, 09:44:01 pm
What's the point of being in a clan if you can't play with your clanmates?

I agree banner balance needs lots of work on the balance front, but it's also a great feature for clans that don't have their own private servers (ie 95% of them).
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on September 30, 2011, 09:45:19 pm
What's the point of being in a clan if you can't play with your clanmates?

I agree banner balance needs lots of work on the balance front, but it's also a great feature for clans that don't have their own private servers (ie 95% of them).

now thats a reasonable answer , i agree with you Shine
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Ylca on September 30, 2011, 09:45:46 pm
If the balance system were changed without a complete overhaul of the XP system most people would probably quit this game. The multiplier system is the reason no one really wants an accurate balancer. Better to be on a crappy team for a while with the possibility of getting on the good team and getting an x5 than to flip-flop between x1 and x2 all day.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: POOPHAMMER on September 30, 2011, 09:46:05 pm
now thats a reasonable answer , i agree with you Shine

I do too. I just call it banner stack most of the time anymore because thats all it is
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on September 30, 2011, 09:48:14 pm
If the balance system were changed without a complete overhaul of the XP system most people would probably quit this game. The multiplier system is the reason no one really wants an accurate balancer. Better to be on a crappy team for a while with the possibility of getting on the good team and getting an x5 than to flip-flop between x1 and x2 all day.


i play for fun before and xp after , and its not fun getting fucked by banner balance

 Mind you if i was peasant , i wouldnt give a damn
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Ylca on September 30, 2011, 10:38:21 pm

i play for fun before and xp after , and its not fun getting fucked by banner balance

 Mind you if i was peasant , i wouldnt give a damn

A lot of people enjoy leveling up and gaining heirlooms. In fact i'd say a majority do, else everyone would play STF exclusively.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Lichen on September 30, 2011, 11:55:01 pm
The multiplier system is the reason no one really wants an accurate balancer.
Exactly. Which is why I wish things were mostly based on individual performance. We could still keep multiplier system but make it more of a 'nice bonus' if it happens rather the primary reward. It would be so much less frustration all around. It gets pretty irritating hearing some self proclaimed 'leader' insulting his team when they lose. As if we are all responsible for HIS win. It just reinforces this ridiculous desperation of some players rather than people being able to chill out and play the game on their OWN terms.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Ylca on September 30, 2011, 11:58:01 pm
Exactly. Which is why I wish things were mostly based on individual performance. We could still keep multiplier system but make it more of a 'nice bonus' if it happens rather the primary reward. It would be so much less frustration all around. It gets pretty irritating hearing some self proclaimed 'leader' insulting his team when they lose. As if we are all responsible for HIS win. It just reinforces this ridiculous desperation of some players rather than people being able to chill out and play the game on their OWN terms.

If XP were based on individual performance it would lead away from team based play directly towards arcade style FFA. Teamwork makes this game interesting, but if all teammates are is a possible loss of personal xp many are simply going to lone wolf or hold their strikes until they can get the last hit/last whatever that is incentive.


It really is a rock and a hard place.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on October 01, 2011, 12:13:32 am
Exactly. Which is why I wish things were mostly based on individual performance. We could still keep multiplier system but make it more of a 'nice bonus' if it happens rather the primary reward. It would be so much less frustration all around. It gets pretty irritating hearing some self proclaimed 'leader' insulting his team when they lose. As if we are all responsible for HIS win. It just reinforces this ridiculous desperation of some players rather than people being able to chill out and play the game on their OWN terms.

i for one bitch about my team ex: not sticking together ,  afkers , or non serious people , while i go on and try the impossible and kill the whole clan facing me , pubbies doesnt play the game seriously so they lose all the time , so i lose most of the time!   

  I have all reason to be mad bro :D 

    i give my 200%  for  my team  , i wished my team returned the favor     ,

 In the meantime , lets all matches be 4-1 or 5-0 because that is how people love to play this game /le sigh


   i got to agree with the other poster the xp system help this situation in a perverse way

 
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Lichen on October 01, 2011, 01:22:45 am
i for one bitch about my team ex: not sticking together ,  afkers , or non serious people , while i go on and try the impossible and kill the whole clan facing me , pubbies doesnt play the game seriously so they lose all the time , so i lose most of the time!   

  I have all reason to be mad bro :D 

    i give my 200%  for  my team  , i wished my team returned the favor     ,
You should be mad at the xp system not other players. You can't EXPECT teamwork.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on October 01, 2011, 01:33:53 am
You should be mad at the xp system not other players. You can't EXPECT teamwork.

no im mad at the banner balance who put all the serious people together :p
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: a_bear_irl on October 01, 2011, 02:58:31 am
Exactly. Which is why I wish things were mostly based on individual performance. We could still keep multiplier system but make it more of a 'nice bonus' if it happens rather the primary reward. It would be so much less frustration all around. It gets pretty irritating hearing some self proclaimed 'leader' insulting his team when they lose. As if we are all responsible for HIS win. It just reinforces this ridiculous desperation of some players rather than people being able to chill out and play the game on their OWN terms.

that's dumb, the peasant grind would take much longer and it would mean very good players would quickly accumulate tons of XP and gold while the rest of the playerbase stagnates
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: BADPLAYERold on October 01, 2011, 03:11:44 am
I wish valour was a more simple thing given to say the top 3 people who kill the most enemies for your team that round. It's frustrating when you get balanced to a not so good team and lose 5 rounds in a row even though you are doing very well.

But yeah banner balance is not very good.. I would prefer a class based balance system.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Malaclypse on October 01, 2011, 05:18:52 am
I would prefer to see a more complex balance system at play. Not that I know anything about the mathematics required to set one up, but ideally it would take into consideration many variables: Stat/Skill/Prof Allocation, Heirlooms, Level, Banner, Loadout cost (scaling for different stat/skill/prof allocations), Generation, KDR and more? Probably not a realistic desire, but I'd love to see it anyhow.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Cepeshi on October 01, 2011, 09:13:19 am
It is easy to say NO to something, to bitch and stuff, but to come up with healthy alternative, that is problem. Either get the code for that ready, or gtfo  :mrgreen:

nah, more seriously, even when the clans are stacked on one side, the randoms sometimes rock, and steamroll...so, where is the issue? and yeah, i am usually losing multi on first round before i get back to my guys, this fixes the problem  :mrgreen: lets just all play with the same banner and no problem, huh?
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Gorath on October 01, 2011, 12:20:12 pm
sorry to burst your bubble but its not a fair system and it NEVER WILL,

Love you balb, but life isn't fair.

Pubbies don't deserve shit.  Join a clan or get shit on.  That's how team-based pvp games should work.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Ylca on October 01, 2011, 12:45:07 pm

Pubbies don't deserve shit.  Join a clan or get shit on.  That's how team-based pvp games should work.

There is next to no other multiplayer competitive game in which in a non scrim game clans are consistently placed against teams of randoms by the balance system. None. Pretty much the entirety of the rest of the gaming community have decided no, that is not how team based pvp games should work. There's a difference between a scrim and general play and there's a reason that almost every game besides this one ignores clan tags when autobalancing. Hint: Multiplier.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Snoozer on October 01, 2011, 12:47:08 pm
hey actually i have a related post...i thought the same thing about the balance system but i could not think of a solution for it

i made a new thread but i put it in the wrong section  :oops: so if you know how to fix that let me know so i can put it in like the suggestions corner or game balance discussions go there and check out my ideas its about fixing the valor system to better contribute to the balance system so your not totally fucked on the loses team and not flip flopping between x1 n x2 in 5 out 9 matches -_-

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,17225.0.html
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Gorath on October 01, 2011, 08:11:53 pm
There is next to no other multiplayer competitive game in which in a non scrim game clans are consistently placed against teams of randoms by the balance system. None. Pretty much the entirety of the rest of the gaming community have decided no, that is not how team based pvp games should work. There's a difference between a scrim and general play and there's a reason that almost every game besides this one ignores clan tags when autobalancing. Hint: Multiplier.

Dunno where you play but in every FPS I have ever played in the entire history of my gaming life, and currently still to this day as I play BF2:BC for example, when you join any clan server they have in thier message of the day that "You will be (re)moved as needed to make room for clanmembers both on the server and on the same team as the rest of their clanmates."  /paraphrase

Maybe if you're only playing on scrubby public EA servers it works the way you describe which is fine if you merely want to play with the masses of fuckwits who can't be arsed to play against the odds and actually improve.
(Of course considering the clan you're in it's not too surprising that you don't want to be teamed up with just them often.  Who would)

Being a pubbie in a team based game means you deserve fuck all.  Join a damn clan or stop whining. 
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Siiem on October 01, 2011, 08:13:20 pm
Being a pubbie in a team based game means you deserve fuck all.  Join a damn clan or stop whining.

What if nobody wants you in a clan?
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Gorath on October 01, 2011, 08:17:06 pm
What if nobody wants you in a clan?

Then frankly you must have something fucked up about you in which case fuck off anyways.  With how many clans there are out there, and especially how many clans there are with moronic children spouting asinine fucking drivel 24/7 and acting like short-bussers, someone has to be pretty socially inept to not be able to get into at least one clan.  That person deserves no sympathy and should probably be made sterile just as a precaution against their genes being passed along.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Siiem on October 01, 2011, 08:19:43 pm
Then frankly you must have something fucked up about you in which case fuck off anyways.  With how many clans there are out there, and especially how many clans there are with moronic children spouting asinine fucking drivel 24/7 and acting like short-bussers, someone has to be pretty socially inept to not be able to get into at least one clan.  That person deserves no sympathy and should probably be made sterile just as a precaution against their genes being passed along.

Wait, aren't you a father?
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Gorath on October 01, 2011, 08:28:35 pm
Wait, aren't you a father?

Yep, and I tell my kiddo constantly to stop whining, man up and life isn't fucking fair so just deal with it.  Unclanned people in a TEAM game should do the same.  FFS they can just be a bitch and put on a clan's banner, which they do all the time, to try and get a better chance to be on the winning team as it is currently.  Yeah, it's a bitch move unless you're actually applying for said clan and trying to work with them as part of your trial/application period, but it can't be stopped so wtf is the issue.

Awaaaaah, an organized group with voice chat is doing better than a bunch of unorganized pubbers without voice chat.  Life isn't faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaair.  Fucking people nowadays are such lazy whining pieces of shit it's disgusting, and not just in gaming.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Siiem on October 01, 2011, 08:30:46 pm
But, but what if they are deaf?
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Gorath on October 01, 2011, 08:33:53 pm
But, but what if they are deaf?

Fuck em.

Blind?  Fuck em.

Armless?  Fuck em.

Brain dead?  Fuck em.

In a coma?  Fuck em.

Any other bullshit possible?  Fuck em.

In general, fuck people and stop being a bitch.

*Found an avatar for the whiners:  visitors can't see pics , please register or login

And I found your leader:  http://noclans4me.tripod.com/*
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: POOPHAMMER on October 01, 2011, 08:48:13 pm
Gorath,

I know it is a horrible habit of yours to shit all over the message boards with nonsense nobody cares about, but I am gonna have to ask you to shut the fuck up
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Gorath on October 01, 2011, 08:54:40 pm
Gorath,

I know it is a horrible habit of yours to shit all over the message boards with nonsense nobody cares about, but I am gonna have to ask you to shut the fuck up

Hmmm.  How about you go fuck yourself and I'll continue to say whatever the fuck I want in your bitch threads?   
:shock: 
Abloo bloo, aboo.

When I start giving a shit about the opinion of morons with pre-teen humor based names that defecate via their oral cavity I'll let you know.

Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 01, 2011, 08:58:48 pm
Be nice.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Kalam on October 01, 2011, 09:09:09 pm
Be nice.

Though I do agree that pubbies deserve nothing, there's no reason to repeatedly spam it.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Gorath on October 02, 2011, 12:34:50 am
Though I do agree that pubbies deserve nothing, there's no reason to repeatedly spam it.

Point taken.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 02, 2011, 12:41:53 am
Thing is, there might be alot of people with very high wpf and they will still be noobs^^

Don't think that could really balance a team :/
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Cyranule on October 02, 2011, 01:11:39 am
Fuck em.

Blind?  Fuck em.

Armless?  Fuck em.

Brain dead?  Fuck em.

In a coma?  Fuck em.

Any other bullshit possible?  Fuck em.

In general, fuck people and stop being a bitch.

*Found an avatar for the whiners:  visitors can't see pics , please register or login

And I found your leader:  http://noclans4me.tripod.com/*


visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: POOPHAMMER on October 02, 2011, 02:07:54 am
Thing is, there might be alot of people with very high wpf and they will still be noobs^^

Don't think that could really balance a team :/

WPF was only a possible idea to go along with it, its more or less to help make it so one team does not have only 1 or 2 cav when the enemy has 8+, also balances out ranged
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on October 02, 2011, 05:15:15 am
Gorath you used to be a reasonable man :( 

        Back then there was no banner balance and we played and we had fun , how is this so much important now?
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Gorath on October 02, 2011, 08:21:28 am
Gorath you used to be a reasonable man :( 

        Back then there was no banner balance and we played and we had fun , how is this so much important now?

The mod became flooded with worthless little shits that disgust me on a cellular level not just as gamers, but people.

Of course you won't have to deal with it for much longer I'm sure Balb.  I'm fairly certain that given the sharp decline in my time spent not just in the game but on the forums as well, the waning interest in even sharing the same virtual space as the dregs and seeing the majority of the clanmates I like playing anything BUT this game that I'm simply in the death throes of involvment here.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Snoozer on October 02, 2011, 11:40:21 am
i dont think your the only one gorath....but then again the school has just started for alot of people that is why it feels like crpg is kind of a ghost town. people will always QQ about everything i have kinda fallen into that as well but everyone does.i blame society making people think everyone is a winner and give them a trophy when there the loser thats derp there is a obvious difference between winning and loosing do not cloud it,if anything make it a little bit easy to bounce back that is all though(i fucking hated those trophy's whether i got them or not bare minimum keep 2nd n 3rd fuck the rest)
/rant

theres nowhere for you to run gorath just tell them to stfu and forget they ever said anything  :lol:

(btw i had to lock that thread due to the fact it was in the wrong part of the forums and i posted a new one in suggestion corner http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,17283.0.html)
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 02, 2011, 08:24:18 pm
Then it might be better to (I have no idea if this is possible, but maybe^^) balance the gamy on the items a player uses?

That the game sees maybe 15 bows and 15 horses and then automatically balances them.
Or whatever there can be done, but I still think wpf isn't the way
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Siiem on October 02, 2011, 08:25:38 pm
Then it might be better to (I have no idea if this is possible, but maybe^^) balance the gamy on the items a player uses?

That the game sees maybe 15 bows and 15 horses and then automatically balances them.
Or whatever there can be done, but I still think wpf isn't the way

The game has the ability of perception? Damn, some hardcore stuff these cRPG devs can do.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 02, 2011, 08:34:41 pm
The game has the ability of perception? Damn, some hardcore stuff these cRPG devs can do.

(I have no idea if this is possible, but maybe^^)

;)
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Siiem on October 02, 2011, 08:39:05 pm
Okay, this is getting creepy.
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 02, 2011, 08:39:44 pm
 8-)
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Siiem on October 02, 2011, 08:41:05 pm
How long has the mod been watching us?  :shock:
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 02, 2011, 08:49:34 pm
Always  :shock:
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: Wookimonsta on October 06, 2011, 05:06:40 pm
HAHA GORATH IS MUTED HAHA
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: POOPHAMMER on October 06, 2011, 05:11:58 pm
HAHA GORATH IS MUTED HAHA

about time
Title: Re: Have "autobalance" be based on skill points/WPF
Post by: DrTaco on October 07, 2011, 03:25:11 am
Release the clone!