cRPG

cRPG => Ban/Unban Requests => Closed Requests => Topic started by: Decurtius on September 28, 2011, 08:32:14 pm

Title: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Decurtius on September 28, 2011, 08:32:14 pm
This is my very first post for such a request. Know, however that this kind of behavior is common, and although I do not feel compelled to take action every time, a message must be sent at some point. I'm talking about anti-french racism. In proportions, it is running rampant and rarely regarded as "racism" for some reason. However, if one does link insults to to a particular ethnic group, it would, in its proper sense and meaning, be qualificating the group, and not the individual and therefore can, and must, be considered as a racist comment. Wich is why I demand, in the name of the french-canadian community of cRPG, and the other players, respectful of diversity,  that this individual be banned from the server on wich he exposed racist behaviors. (cRPG NA1) Here is the link of one of thoses -quite over the line- insult, taken today. It may seems benign, but, really leaves me wondering what would be the reaction a the anglo-saxon community if we allowed ourselves such marks of disrespect. I am sure that my point is then, quite understandable.

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Thanks for your time and understanding.

Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Cock_Knocker
Post by: arowaine on September 28, 2011, 08:35:43 pm
100% agree this guys deserve a ban as a exemple.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Cock_Knocker
Post by: Siboire on September 28, 2011, 08:38:43 pm
^ +1

 :mad:
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Cock_Knocker
Post by: Druss on September 28, 2011, 08:45:35 pm
+1 God wills it.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 28, 2011, 08:52:08 pm
So, According to what you're saying, If someone calls me an American Asshole, that's racism and should be banned?

1) Everyone know's Occitan are French Canadians and you don't lets Non-french speakers in.(I've heard, but there's truth in rumors)
2) He called you that after saying he was harassing people.
3) Therefore, he calls you french, which is what you are, and insults you for trying to make slanderous comments on him.

Racism?

Oh, 4) Welcome to the internet?
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Devilize on September 28, 2011, 08:53:12 pm
This American bastard  person would like to +1. There is no call for racist slurs of any kind in any situation. Play together - Respect each other.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 28, 2011, 08:54:32 pm
Be warned that if I ban this guy for saying one racist line, there will be a significant "casualty" list as I will have to do this for everyone who utters any sort of discriminatory hate speech.

Is this what the NA community wants?

If so, then I shall gladly start handing out kicks mutes and short bans for this type of behavior, which will be a daily occurrence.

I understand that hate speech is not a good thing, but for even a single line of this to be a bannable offense, I will have to start punishing extremely large numbers of people every day, even for saying for example "you my old friend" which occurs almost every map at least once due to people screaming at roof campers or running archers.

I personally don't like nor condone this behavior, just keep in mind what you are asking for.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Devilize on September 28, 2011, 08:57:32 pm
I understand that hate speech is not a good thing, but for even a single line of this to be a bannable offense, I will have to start punishing extremely large numbers of people every day, even for saying for example "you my old friend" which occurs almost every map at least once due to people screaming at roof campers or running archers.

Depends, are they using the Urban dictionary version or the Webster?
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Siboire on September 28, 2011, 09:14:21 pm
(click to show/hide)

So you're saying that you would not care somebody saying something as stupid as "American fuck"? (I am not calling you this, I'm just wandering if your answer to the topic would have been different if it would have been this case.)

(click to show/hide)

That dude IS harrassing ppl ingame: he kicks teamate archers when they are trying to shoot and it can even sometimes go up to teamwounding tho I personnally don't have any proof. Also, what is the link between not letting non-french speakers in? It's like the german, turk, russian or wtv clans that are full of germans/turks... nothing to do with racism. Also, we are really close to Hospitallers, we share the same TS in fact so we more than often get english-only speakers and we enjoy talking with them. Again, nothing to do with racism. I don't see your point.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 28, 2011, 09:20:00 pm
So you're saying that you would not care somebody saying something as stupid as "American fuck"? (I am not calling you this, I'm just wandering if your answer to the topic would have been different if it would have been this case.)

I do care and I have been called or similar things that many times on cRPG, both on the forums and in game. However, nobody seems to really do anything about it unless it is a plethora of insuts, so I hesitate to be the first to ban off of just one line of it.

In all honesty if it was him saying "You American Fuck" then I would probably take it less seriously considering that is one of the most common insults ever directed towards me on the internet.

If another Admin agrees to clamp down on this behavior then I shall gladly issue a ban and in the fture give an auto kick towards anyone who hurls any hate speech in game. I just foresee a lot of "flak" going towards my way if I do this.

I personally would be in favour of absolutely zero tolerance on hate speech for the servers, where even a one-liner can get you kicked. Just notice that a lot of people are used to hurling rampant insults, and will not take kindly to this change, and I don't want to be the only Admin doing this and thus being the sole target of criticism.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 28, 2011, 09:25:31 pm
That dude IS harrassing ppl ingame: he kicks teamate archers when they are trying to shoot and it can even sometimes go up to teamwounding tho I personnally don't have any proof. Also, what is the link between not letting non-french speakers in? It's like the german, turk, russian or wtv clans that are full of germans/turks... nothing to do with racism. Also, we are really close to Hospitallers, we share the same TS in fact so we more than often get english-only speakers and we enjoy talking with them. Again, nothing to do with racism. I don't see your point.

Point 1 is just pointing out a (known) fact. Everyone in your clan is French Canadian, no exceptions.
Point 2 states another fact. Arowaine says he's doing something, publicly in chat.(Of course we don't see any proof, so it is nothing more than bitching about someone)
Point 3 states a Logical Conclusion, He's angry, He knows you're french, therefore he insults.

And tears pointed it out quite nicely. If this is even remotely bannable, then people should get banned for far far more things, friendly archer(my old friend cher), for example, would then be bannable.

Oh and on the internet, if people don't know you, and you are french, you are already hated. (I can tell you how many in our clan that are canadian don't like you, even though they have NEVER talked to any of you personally. Stereotypes do that.)

EDIT: HAHAHA my old friend and CHER makes FRIENDLY ARCHER
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Siboire on September 28, 2011, 09:46:46 pm
I admit, I am one of the first to rage against range (calling them f@gs and such cuz of their playstyle) and I would accept a kick for doing such thing. On the other hand, insulting/hating somebody after/for their nationality/race is just plain racist and stupid. Even more when you don't know much about them and you put them all in the same basket cuz of stereotypes like the Canadians and their French Canadian Stereotypes for exemple.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Goldwyn on September 28, 2011, 09:51:07 pm
This aint about Canadians OR Americans. In fact both of them are Americans. We are currently speaking of the language we speak. Like you say Anders you have multiple of Canadians in ur clan wich hate french Canadian. Do they speak french by any chance? This kind of hate aint from yesterday. It had been this way for long long time. Language and religion made wars. I understand wat my friend is trying to say when he wants this guy banned. And i know it is not the first time nor the last time we will receive those kind of hatefull comments.

But tears marks a semi-point in this story. Yes it would dramatically lower the player in our community servers if we start banning every single one of them that makes those kind of comments. Because most of them are people that had a bad day and want to release their emotions in such a way. Or just plain Assholes who just likes to look tough writing shit. Wat I mean is that even if we start banning people saying those kind of things will just be a kiss on a wound. But it would not heal it.

 French speakers and English speakers will always have this hate on each other. I personally think that this kind of hate comes when you see a text or you hear something you dont understand. So french speakers dont understand English or English speakers that dont understand French get frustrated and start hating those people. Put it this way : Ever went to school? i hope so. Ever did a math test where you did not study or a problem that you did not understand. And because you did not understand you are starting to get pissed off at everything. Well it happened to me. probably happened to you too. So this kind of frustation comes back the same way when you hear or see a language u do not understand.

I know it is bad. Personally i dont hate other people that is different from me. Because i know if this person gets personal with those kind of comments, it could piss him off or hurt him. And for us, Occitan, we think that if we dont go and hate on you guys (concerned people only) we dont deserve to be hated on. So please stop this for those that understands wat i am saying. And for the others, well... i wish you luck on ur future and that you will wake up some day.

Good day,
Occitan_Captain_Crunch
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Decurtius on September 28, 2011, 10:05:37 pm
In the first place, I would like to comment on Ander's comment:

That comment you posted about our linguistic exclusivity is irrelevant. We are french speakers and play together for communication purposes. Speaking french is an occitan requierement, not being french. It is on our forum post and website -get your facts straight-
It is so because we WISH to speak french and 1 allophone would force us to speak english. It would then destroy our primary purpose as a clan: enjoying the game in the language of our choosing. Forcing us to the contrary, would be disrespectful and disregard the very notion of cultural difference. Ergo, it would be racist. And trust me when I say we already get enough of that speak white crap on the servers when we dare express ourselves in the language of our choosing. Words have a weight. Weigh them carefully.
Moreover, regardless of the very notion of clonflict, insults should not trespass the border of ethnic classifications. Aka: a fucker is a fucker in every corner of the world; giving that word exclusivity over one ethnic and/or linguistic group IS racist. It is in fact, the very definition of the word: Reducing a group to a single caracteristic.

Now, about what the moderator himself said:

Quote:
I understand that hate speech is not a good thing, but for even a single line of this to be a bannable offense, I will have to start punishing extremely large numbers of people every day, even for saying for example "you my old friend" which occurs almost every map at least once due to people screaming at roof campers or running archers.
I personally don't like nor condone this behavior, just keep in mind what you are asking for.

Although I understand that for technical reasons, it is impossible to impose a 100% standard over communication, there is a line. We are not talking about insults here, we are talking about racism. The fact that you said "I personally don't like nor condone this behavior" is remarkably insensitive. You cannot ignore racism, it is not only a matter of decency, it is the law. In your personal name, you can do whatever you want, but you are asked as a public publisher, to take action. Now, taking it one step at a time, I understand your situation and know you have limited courses of action if you start making trials for each one of thoses situations.

What I will ask however, is that admins apply the server rules. Where you can't take action, there was an admin on site, and Ad-hoc actions are taken for lesser offenses. Asking for a kick is something common, and should be obtained when such a situation arise. I will speak of my personal experience here: I've had enough, being called frog, french fuck, french coward, french trash, gay french etc. While such actions would call immediate justice emaning from an english player. Do not prove to us that there are 2 separate classes of players in this game and at the very least, aknowledge that we are right when we say it is racism, and is against what cRPG stands for.
Thank you.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 28, 2011, 10:09:41 pm
Me saying that "I personally don't like nor condone this behavior" of people exhibiting racism is me being insensitive? My apologies.

I shall step aside for another moderator to handle this then.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Shadowren on September 28, 2011, 10:12:30 pm
So, According to what you're saying, If someone calls me an American Asshole, that's racism and should be banned?

1) Everyone know's Occitan are French Canadians and you don't lets Non-french speakers in.(I've heard, but there's truth in rumors)
2) He called you that after saying he was harassing people.
3) Therefore, he calls you french, which is what you are, and insults you for trying to make slanderous comments on him.

Racism?

Yes its called being Racist and I 100% agree with the ban.

Saying this to some one is 100% unacceptable (I have not team killed once you french fuck)

If some one says anything about Race,Religion, or sex it should be an auto ban.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Brrrak on September 28, 2011, 10:30:09 pm
Why the hell is there an issue about this already?  Racist speech (at least obvious racist speech, such as certain perjoratives against blacks) earn people mutes, warnings, kicks, and bans all the time.  If you're going to outlaw racism, outlaw it totally.  If you're thinking it's weird that an individual can be banned for just as long for making anti-French comments as they are for making anti-black comments, well...that's actually typical.  Either none of it is acceptable, or all of it.

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Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Patricia on September 28, 2011, 10:32:51 pm
Wow, you french fucks are sensitive as fuck.

I'm french myself and I couldn't give less of a shit if someone said that to me.

Feels like you guys just feel like getting someone banned for a stupid reason right now, and not because you're genuinely offended, and if you are, I'm ashamed.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Decurtius on September 28, 2011, 10:36:51 pm
Shame is a relativism. You actually shame me. Now, either say something constructive, or accept the fact that by that display, you show no self-respect. Thanks for leaving this post to the ones who care Patricia.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Ganner on September 28, 2011, 10:38:38 pm
After personally witnessing the event, I would say all parties involved may deserve a short ban or at least strong warning.

Yes Knocker intentional kicked one person which started this, and then was immediately TKED by arrowanie.  I warned everyone to stop the TKing and he was then Team wounded by Kap10, who i kicked for this.  After that the argument was continued in chat even after i told everyone the issue was resolved.

While I agree that knocker should not have said what he said and he did intentional kick and troll an occitain member, there never would have been an issue if multiple occitan people didn't decided to retaliate.

As for the Racism charge, all i have to say is how many times have we heard the term amerimy old friends without it being actionable...
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Patricia on September 28, 2011, 10:39:41 pm
Shame is a relativism. You actually shame me. Now, either say something constructive, or accept the fact that by that display, you show no self-respect. Thanks for leaving this post to the ones who care Patricia.

No self-respect? Oh okay, no clue where you got that from but whatever, doesn't change the fact that you guys are over emotive and sensitive as fuck.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 28, 2011, 10:41:27 pm
I shall lock the thread after Ganner posts his final decision in a definitive post. He is best qualified to make the final judgement as he witnessed it.

I think I shall also create a separate sticky called "Dustbin" to move OT posts to from now on...
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Decurtius on September 28, 2011, 10:41:59 pm
I don't care about thoses considerations Patricia, now thanks for leaving what doesn't interest you to the others.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Veto on September 28, 2011, 10:43:36 pm
Using the country of your origin to describe you "the fuck" is racist? i thought racism had to be hurtful or derogatory? you know actually putting down the french, not just calling them french?? right?

he could of said "you stupid fuck"  or even "you red headed fuck" as he was just describing "the fuck" he was talking to. Ya know adjectives are cool cause they describe, not discriminate
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Goldwyn on September 28, 2011, 10:43:52 pm
This is not about emotions or how we are sensitive. This is about language diferences and that we want to keep our language alive in our community. Not because we are a minority we have to bow our heads to majoritys. We have our rights. Then we want to practice them without being unsulted by others who dont give a scumbag about others.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Siboire on September 28, 2011, 10:45:42 pm
After personally witnessing the event, I would say all parties involved may deserve a short ban or at least strong warning.

Yes Knocker intentional kicked one person which started this, and then was immediately TKED by arrowanie.  I warned everyone to stop the TKing and he was then Team wounded by Kap10, who i kicked for this.  After that the argument was continued in chat even after i told everyone the issue was resolved.

While I agree that knocker should not have said what he said and he did intentional kick and troll an occitain member, there never would have been an issue if multiple occitan people didn't decided to retaliate.

As for the Racism charge, all i have to say is how many times have we heard the term amerimy old friends without it being actionable...

This has nothing to do with tks, team wound or wtv, its all about we are tired of racist comments. It can be against americans or french or wtv, racist comments or insults have to stop! Actions need to be taken against racist offenders.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Darkkarma on September 28, 2011, 10:47:00 pm
Yeah, in this situation i'd say it's best to just have the involved parties ignore one another. If he had used a racial or ethnic slur, then i'd be all for it. But yeah, sounds like this guy acted like an idiot, but this community would be a fraction of it's size if we banned all of the idiots in general. Being that both parties involved violated the rules, I don't really think a ban is required here.


Also, no one  in administrative positions are complaining about you using French in game. Now if someone was to complain,curse you out and tell you "speak English you -enter name here-", then you'd have a case for wanting to get them banned or kicked. But yeah in this case, adjectives and racial/ethnic slurs are not the same thing. In this case, the aforementioned adjective was used in a disrespectful way, but still not really racist.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Patricia on September 28, 2011, 10:48:52 pm
This is not about emotions or how we are sensitive. This is about language diferences and that we want to keep our language alive in our community. Not because we are a minority we have to bow our heads to majoritys. We have our rights. Then we want to practice them without being unsulted by others who dont give a scumbag about others.

What the fuck are you saying, if you're trying to make a good point you're utterly failing, what does this have to do with KEEPING THE LANGUAGE ALIVE IN OUR COMMUNITY.

What the fuck am I reading, teamkilling back someone who kicked you is not a right you should have just because you're a french minority or some stupid bullshit.

When trying to prove a point or make a point, MAKING SENSE GOES A LONG WAY.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: POOPHAMMER on September 28, 2011, 10:51:35 pm
After personally witnessing the event, I would say all parties involved may deserve a short ban or at least strong warning.

Yes Knocker intentional kicked one person which started this, and then was immediately TKED by arrowanie.  I warned everyone to stop the TKing and he was then Team wounded by Kap10, who i kicked for this.  After that the argument was continued in chat even after i told everyone the issue was resolved.

While I agree that knocker should not have said what he said and he did intentional kick and troll an occitain member, there never would have been an issue if multiple occitan people didn't decided to retaliate.

As for the Racism charge, all i have to say is how many times have we heard the term amerimy old friends without it being actionable...

I will back this up personally. I personally do not find the term overly offensive or racist, but if the kicking/trolling/etc is true he should be punished/warned/watched for that. I feel the term french fuck is not racist, I am not saying it is not offensive, but it is not derogatory nor a racial slur.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Veto on September 28, 2011, 10:51:42 pm
Then we want to practice them without being unsulted by others who dont give a scumbag about others.

i don't give a scumbag what you want to do with your language, speak it in front of us and laugh all damn day. Occitan could of been the bigger men and not even acknowledge the troll. you cant say " what you say is against the rules, you should be banned" and then think "I'm gonna break the rules i want you banned on, and retaliate team kill you"
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 28, 2011, 10:52:06 pm
Harsh Warnings and/or In-Game Bans will be handed out to anyone posting past this post who is not the original poster or the party accused or a moderator. No exceptions.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: POOPHAMMER on September 28, 2011, 10:52:51 pm
What the fuck are you saying, if you're trying to make a good point you're utterly failing, what does this have to do with KEEPING THE LANGUAGE ALIVE IN OUR COMMUNITY.

What the fuck am I reading, teamkilling back someone who kicked you is not a right you should have just because you're a french minority or some stupid bullshit.

When trying to prove a point or make a point, MAKING SENSE GOES A LONG WAY.

Guys stop the fighting in here and lets keep to the subject at hand, this is a ban/unban request forum not a pound your fists on your chest forums and yell at each other, posts like that can be made in the spam forum/PM
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 28, 2011, 10:53:13 pm
EDIT: You posted same time i Did tears Removed.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: arowaine on September 28, 2011, 10:54:02 pm
After personally witnessing the event, I would say all parties involved may deserve a short ban or at least strong warning.

Yes Knocker intentional kicked one person which started this, and then was immediately TKED by arrowanie.  I warned everyone to stop the TKing and he was then Team wounded by Kap10, who i kicked for this.  After that the argument was continued in chat even after i told everyone the issue was resolved.

While I agree that knocker should not have said what he said and he did intentional kick and troll an occitain member, there never would have been an issue if multiple occitan people didn't decided to retaliate.

As for the Racism charge, all i have to say is how many times have we heard the term amerimy old friends without it being actionable...

1 he did kicked more than 1 person while they were trying to reload theirs bows/crossbow.
2 he did team woud ladys so not only kicking people.
3 afther telling him to stop and reported him to a admin via chat, afther short time (20)sec i did tk him.
4 we are here now talking about the fact that he was being racism.
5 you are rigth in this case as myself i deserve a kick/short ban
6 admin should never let racism happen on the server it is against LAW
7 sorry to be sensitive but now im tired of all those racism player and i want justice.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: Ganner on September 28, 2011, 10:56:09 pm
Tears lock this.

As for the comment that was made, I will not judge on this, but the situation is just boiling way past where it should of ended.

All parties were warned IG not to teamkill or teamwound, you both know it is against the rules.  Any further retaliation for this event will result in a ban if I witness it.
Title: Re: (BAN REQUEST) The_Kock_Knocker
Post by: POOPHAMMER on September 28, 2011, 10:57:23 pm
Tears lock this.

As for the comment that was made, I will not judge on this, but the situation is just boiling way past where it should of ended.

All parties were warned IG not to teamkill or teamwound, you both know it is against the rules.  Any further retaliation for this event will result in a ban if I witness it.

This goes for me as well if I see it