cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Torost on September 28, 2011, 02:38:12 am
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Tactics in cRPG is fun , because in most aspects it is selforgansing,
created on the fly and often with little communication by all participants doing what they think is best.
The main tactic however often ends up becoming a variation of "CHARGE!" "GO LEFT!" "GO RIGHT!" towards the enemy spawn.
Depending on the scene the two main forces often keep running in circles until one side is halted or one catches up with the other.
The most active / fast melee usually dictates what happens by leading the way and like sheep all the rest follows,
learning from experience that they get slaughtered fast if they get caught by the enemies doing the same tactic.
The slower elements, either because of slow runningspeed or stopping to reload crossbow,
stops to release arrows often get harassed by enemy cav and skirmishers failing to keep up with the main force.
Thus losing alot of the forces potential since they die early in the battle.
The time you spend running is time that could have been spent hurting the enemy, helping/protecting teammates that are getting slaugterd behind you near spawn.
Flanking is effective when a smaller force leaves the main force to pressure weak spots, not by the entire army running on aflankingmission.
Let the cav that are truely mobile handle latespawners,AFKers,peasants,straggelers killing them does not swing the battle by much. It is only statpadding.
When the footsoldiers starts running the force gets divided and stretched out thin, weak.
At the start of the battle two issues are important, neutralizing enemy cav and securing some advantageous spots in the terrain to dictate how the battle will be fought.
Cav have the hardest time when the group move as one, with a mix of spearmen and ranged on the edges of the group.
If you manage to secure some advantageous spots, the ranged part of the force can then soften up the enemy before the infantry clash,
and even better if you can clash in a spot where ranged has some elevation, so they can overshoot friendly melee you have a great advantage.
If you give ranged some time to work, you will have an easier job later on.
Ranged cannot soften up the enemy if you rush mindlessly straight in to battle.
Why run to them , when they will run to you?
And as a bonus, it will feel more like a real battle, instead of a marathon!
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All good stuff and I agree with you. One problem is getting the mob to do it. I don't think the mob really wants tactics. I think it wants mindlessness.
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All good stuff and I agree with you. One problem is getting the mob to do it. I don't think the mob really wants tactics. I think it wants mindlessness.
pretty much this
Organizing pubs to any degree is a difficult task.
And often i've seen people i've never heard of trying to organize a mostly clanless team.
They struggle to do so to say the least.
Alot of times pubs will only listen to either spammed commands from well known/ players who top the charts.
looks something like
LEFT
LEFT
LEFT
LEFT
LFTE
LEFT
L
FETL
FLET
we've all seen it
Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.
More of a crapshoot than anything
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instant gratification and punishment
^that is the one of the few (and maybe simplest)ways to organize a pub
they must see that the tactic works and of they derail it it is obvious why it did not work
how does this happen? if they die before you they HAVE to watch and if they see certain characters/clans be successful they will follow them instill that happens or if something makes that impossible (ex:first "plan" goes bad") u will have to repeat your successes
sometimes this all happens in game sometimes maybe if they play with you a couple of times they will know if you are good or not
i have organized simple plans sometimes there successful sometimes they fail(alot of my failures are on defense siege...)
simply put if you stay on the top of the charts and live the longest the more likely the pub will listen to you yell out simple plans like the GO LEFT AND BRAKE THE DOOR "plan"
but sometimes there r those who donot care or simply believe they are better then you so y should they listen?
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It is impossible to organize 50 random people in a matter of seconds. Most of what you can achieve is what Phazh is doing / LEFT/RIGHT command. And if he manages to get most of the team to move in the same direction, even that is usually enough.
Much more effective is organizing small fighting forces that can rule on battlefield, if properly lead. Some clans know how to do that, some don't. For example, I saw Byzantium making very nice rape trains with 15 clansmates just following Ujin, which resulted in series of x5 for their team.
Probably the best example for small unit tactics were my old friends/Bandits under Gnjus' leadership. Even when there were just 4 of us on server, we made difference, not because of individual skill, but because of good task division and coordinated work.
I would also mention Mercs, but I haven't seen more than 3-4 Mercs playing together on battle servers in months.
These days, being clanless, I like to team up with players I know. Even 2-3 players watching each others back is much better than playing solo unless you are Phyrex or some other player of that caliber.
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It is impossible to organize 50 random people in a matter of seconds. Most of what you can achieve is what Phazh is doing / LEFT/RIGHT command. And if he manages to get most of the team to move in the same direction, even that is usually enough.
Much more effective is organizing small fighting forces that can rule on battlefield, if properly lead. Some clans know how to do that, some don't. For example, I saw Byzantium making very nice rape trains with 15 clansmates just following Ujin, which resulted in series of x5 for their team.
Probably the best example for small unit tactics were my old friends/Bandits under Gnjus' leadership. Even when there were just 4 of us on server, we made difference, not because of individual skill, but because of good task division and coordinated work.
I would also mention Mercs, but I haven't seen more than 3-4 Mercs playing together on battle servers in months.
These days, being clanless, I like to team up with players I know. Even 2-3 players watching each others back is much better than playing solo unless you are Phyrex or some other player of that caliber.
I agree with the last part! Whenever i get saved in battle by another teammate appearing, i most of the time stick to him for the whole match/round. I'll use alot more overheads and stabs, but it's usefull since you can help each other.
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Interesting post and i agree with most of what the OP says.
Getting a group of random players to follow a plan ain't easy. And what Corwin says is also true; teaming up in small subgroups can be really effective.
Things to try:
- participate in discussing a plan while dead (can't stress this enough, it's really important. confirm plans and repeat)
- after spawning, look around. make 'eye contact' with players you like to team with and salute them. stick with them.
- make a sub-batallion and say so to your team. for example, say in teamchat: "making melee group, bat 2. <insert basic plan here> follow the white flag"
I've noticed that the players that actually look around, make 'eye contact' after spawning and / or salute (block upwards or jiggle shield up and down) are the guys to team up with. The guys that run in a straight line towards the enemies without looking back once to see what the team does (grind / leech mode) are the least valuable.
So make it a habit to look around after spawning. You don't have to type, just use non-verbal communication. Don't be afraid to grab one of the battalion flags. Maybe say in chat what you are going to do (e.g.: bat 2, melee group flanking left).
About the use of caps and repeating commands: yeah, i know it sucks. I hate caps. But it works. So we live with it. I'll try not to repeat commands too much, but it's tempting to spam if you have 'em macro'd like me. :rolleyes:
The OP also suggests that the best general strategy is to take an advantageous position and hold there (CAMP / HOLD). It's the easiest plan and often effective.
But: i've also noticed that camping will make people passive. Often, when camping, many players are inactive and lose their initiative and kind of hang back.
The other basic plan is the charge (be it left, right or just a straight-at-the-enemies-charge). The advantage here is: everyone is trying to get a kill. So every player is being 'dangerous' and is actively hunting enemies. No passivity. Ranged classes and people with low athletics often have a harder time, because they need to keep up with the rush and don't get to shoot much.
The gread advantage here is momentum. Enemy positions are generally easily surrounded and overwhelmed. The risk is splitting up. The longer the charge lasts, the more the team gets seperated. That is where the battalion flags come in: use the red batallion 1 flag to indicate a regroup point. Shout 'regroup at flag' in chat.
Alternating between short camps / regroups and charges seems to work best on most maps.
The key, i think, is doing both: first you group up (camp) on some advantageous position (hill), then you wait for the enemies to get close and you charge them before they get to disrupt your ranged classes. This ensures both good positions for ranged and the momentum advantage for melee.
The main problem here is deciding who calls the charge. Having only one leader is risky, because if he dies the rest of the team becomes passive and the camp-charge turns into a passive camp only. Don't be afraid to discuss who leads or to take the lead if there seems to be no leader.
The one class i haven't mentioned is cav. I've come to believe that letting the cav charge forward and hunt stragglers and afkers is a big waste. Too many cav gets lost to enemy ranged fire whilst chasing low value kills. Instead, i believe that cav is a support class.
Instead of charging ahead, the best cav can do is stick with the melee group and use their horse to block enemy cavalry or threaten enemy melee when they engage your infantry. That way, you prevent your cav from getting isolated and mobbed away from the main fight. Cav needs to be there at the 'big clash' to bump enemies and put pressure on their rear, forcing the enemy to face multiple directions and breaking their charge.
(The proof of this, for me, is that on most normal maps, like ruins, the most effective tactic by far is: "hold middle ruins, kill enemy cav" (or "hold gate, kill enemy cav" for the other team). Cav always charges in first, gets piked or shot and after that infantry and ranged can spread out and surround the enemies without getting picked off by cav.)
P.S. ages ago i wrote a guide on tactics. It's outdated, but if you haven't seen it, take a peek (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,27.0.html).
I like this thread. Keep it coming!
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WE WANT STRATEGUS!
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NH had some fun doing shieldwall with spear support on the NA battle server last night. After the first round people started joining in and taking part of the wall without any prompting. Was pretty funny when the other side was forming their own shieldwall in response.
Sometimes it just takes a group of people going out there and leading by example before others catch on.
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http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,16561.0.html
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Much more effective is organizing small fighting forces that can rule on battlefield, if properly lead. Some clans know how to do that, some don't. For example, I saw Byzantium making very nice rape trains with 15 clansmates just following Ujin, which resulted in series of x5 for their team.
More like 7, it's just that 7 Byzantiums count as a small army.
I must add that flags add a huge motivation to follow you for your teammates. Pubbies like following the shiny banner to victory. Yell follow the flag and a lot actually do.
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I must add that flags add a huge motivation to follow you for your teammates. Pubbies like following the shiny banner to victory. Yell follow the flag and a lot actually do.
Since I lack a lot when it comes to battle awareness I really like following someone who gives me orders. I also press p every time I'm on a server just to find out if there's a flag up (if I don't find any clanmates or other people I know I can follow).
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Yep, the battalion flag system is very practical. Having a rallying point is great.
For those that like to grind a bit: it's easy and practical. Doesn't require any talking or organizing and makes basic teamplay easy.
For those that are really into tactics: they can participate in discussing the plan or even make their own battalion.
All in all a pretty good and underrated and underused system. We should promote it more and squeeze out some more fun team play out of crpg battle mode. :D
Check out the 'Cult of Mithras' cross clan formation and tactics training tonight: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,16561.0.html
Don't miss it! Gonna be fun!
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The one class i haven't mentioned is cav. I've come to believe that letting the cav charge forward and hunt stragglers and afkers is a big waste. Too many cav gets lost to enemy ranged fire whilst chasing low value kills. Instead, i believe that cav is a support class.
Instead of charging ahead, the best cav can do is stick with the melee group and use their horse to block enemy cavalry or threaten enemy melee when they engage your infantry. That way, you prevent your cav from getting isolated and mobbed away from the main fight. Cav needs to be there at the 'big clash' to bump enemies and put pressure on their rear, forcing the enemy to face multiple directions and breaking their charge.
i couldn't stop laughing at this, i wish i could see only one of them doing this
cav players are the most immature players in this mod, and they are thinking only about them selves, and their hunger for easy kills
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More like 7, it's just that 7 Byzantiums count as a small army.
Yeah, tell that to Risen. It was day before yesterday and it was a city map? Are you sure there weren't more than 7?
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I dont care which tactic is used as long as people stick together. This is all about team play. I dont have anything against ninjas. I was one before the clan came and ruined the fun.
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Tell me more about flags. I've never seen them used and I don't know how to use them, or anything about them. Is there a faq or any info about them?
I always look for people to cooperate with during a siege or battle. It makes things a lot more enjoyable. Those are great suggestions from Phazey about making contact at spawn.
That's one drawback to Stategus for me. I'm not in a clan, nor am I a super warrior, so I stand little chance for getting accepted for a strat battle. That's why it's fun to find cooperation on the pubs.
It's too bad that voip wasn't implemented in M&B, although it might get annoying, given the amount of voice command spamming I hear on the servers.
How do you make melee groups?
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I dont care which tactic is used as long as people stick together. This is all about team play. I dont have anything against ninjas. I was one before the clan came and ruined the fun.
Plus 1 on the sticking together. I play a 1h xbow, and it's a great combo to have a pike man and inf watch my back as I concentrate on knocking down the cav.
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i couldn't stop laughing at this, i wish i could see only one of them doing this
cav players are the most immature players in this mod, and they are thinking only about them selves, and their hunger for easy kills
Cav aren't immature, cav are the fighter jocks of CRPG. High Speed Low Drag is the motto of most cav, while archers might have mantras of "Always take the shot." Cav say "Woah, I'm way too drunk to be playing this game right now."
On most maps where you can easily see/fight the enemy, the cav will usually clash first and fight first, whoever wins the cav battle will then be allowed to harass the opposing team's infantry from behind. Having cav is a very tremendous advantage over not having cav, you would be really dumb to not want any cav on your team. Sometimes you might encounter a Cav Hero, who can basically kill all of the enemy cav by himself, and then the rest of the enemy team by himself. While it may look like he is doing everything solo and it is so easy, he wouldn't be able to do it unless his teammates keep distracting the enemy team by being a target. People walking around on the ground are basically cannon fodder to protect the horses.
When lancing from horseback, I imagine myself as some kind of Spitfire or Mustang, strafing chocolate chip cookie infantry during some long forgotten battle of WW2. The roles are pretty much the same too, the light cav plays the role of the fighter, keeping the other light cav engaged and away from the bomber heavy cav. Horse Archers/Crossbowmen are basically dicks that nobody likes and have a minimal impact on the battle, the best way they can do anything is by assassinating high-value targets, taking out enemy horses, they are basically interceptors, really good at shooting down fighters but not having the firepower to hurt bombers.
Having more than 1 wingman as cav is stupid, and a waste of time. But cav should definitely work in pairs, and then as pairs as a huge blob on the appropriate map.
Trust me, you wouldn't want VOIP.
Anything more complicated of "Everybody follow me." is going to get fucked up when the plan goes to shit (It always does), it only works if there is someone you can listen to (Not read) and have the battleplan adapt as the situations change. It is true it is vulnerable to ranged, the blob is basically there as extra hitpoints for the heavy-hitters and killers of crpg. Everyone can have fun in a blob, especially if they like getting murdered and holding up their shield until such time as they are murdered.
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Yeah, tell that to Risen. It was day before yesterday and it was a city map? Are you sure there weren't more than 7?
Not at all, there might have been 10 of us. Now that you mention it I do remember seeing a lot of byzantium banners in our little shieldwall steamroll.
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All I would say to the average joe players is stick with the group and if someone suggests something in chat, go with it.
If someone tries to change the plan after you already started the plan then 90% of times **** them and continue what you were doing.
I know there's some saying about you shouldnt rigidly stick to plans because of all the things that can happen, but in crpg this does not count because you can guarantee 50% of the team will continue with the original thing.
Also if you say "Charge" and use the voice command, charge. Dont stand there admiring your weapon.
Passivity kills a team more often than not and a good chunk of aggression can make a massive difference.
I've been on teams of 50 players where we lost one guy on a charge and we destroyed the enemy team. One guy out of 50.
Dont be scared to "die" but dont throw your virtual life away.
Also dont be a lemming and throw your life away. If you see teammate fighting and outnumbered, go and help - they will be wanting to do a fighting retreat most likely.
If they die before you get there, just pull back.
Also its not always a great idea to follow me because i like to do crazy stuff and get into the cav fights even tho i have no horse. The advice above is when I'm really playing to survive as long as possible.
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Cav aren't immature, cav are the fighter jocks of CRPG. High Speed Low Drag is the motto of most cav, while archers might have mantras of "Always take the shot." Cav say "Woah, I'm way too drunk to be playing this game right now."
On most maps where you can easily see/fight the enemy, the cav will usually clash first and fight first, whoever wins the cav battle will then be allowed to harass the opposing team's infantry from behind. Having cav is a very tremendous advantage over not having cav, you would be really dumb to not want any cav on your team. Sometimes you might encounter a Cav Hero, who can basically kill all of the enemy cav by himself, and then the rest of the enemy team by himself. While it may look like he is doing everything solo and it is so easy, he wouldn't be able to do it unless his teammates keep distracting the enemy team by being a target. People walking around on the ground are basically cannon fodder to protect the horses.
When lancing from horseback, I imagine myself as some kind of Spitfire or Mustang, strafing chocolate chip cookie infantry during some long forgotten battle of WW2. The roles are pretty much the same too, the light cav plays the role of the fighter, keeping the other light cav engaged and away from the bomber heavy cav. Horse Archers/Crossbowmen are basically dicks that nobody likes and have a minimal impact on the battle, the best way they can do anything is by assassinating high-value targets, taking out enemy horses, they are basically interceptors, really good at shooting down fighters but not having the firepower to hurt bombers.
Having more than 1 wingman as cav is stupid, and a waste of time. But cav should definitely work in pairs, and then as pairs as a huge blob on the appropriate map.
Trust me, you wouldn't want VOIP.
Anything more complicated of "Everybody follow me." is going to get fucked up when the plan goes to shit (It always does), it only works if there is someone you can listen to (Not read) and have the battleplan adapt as the situations change. It is true it is vulnerable to ranged, the blob is basically there as extra hitpoints for the heavy-hitters and killers of crpg. Everyone can have fun in a blob, especially if they like getting murdered and holding up their shield until such time as they are murdered.
I am going to get lynched for saying this, but I am sometimes surprised that you often speak reason yet is a leader of goons. Who'd have thought.
Any way, while I am not a cav player myself, I find what you write to be very true.
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Cav aren't immature, cav are the fighter jocks of CRPG. High Speed Low Drag is the motto of most cav, while archers might have mantras of "Always take the shot." Cav say "Woah, I'm way too drunk to be playing this game right now."
well yes but thats not just cav
Cav aren't immature, cav are the fighter jocks of CRPG. High Speed Low Drag is the motto of most cav, while archers might have mantras of "Always take the shot." Cav say "Woah, I'm way too drunk to be playing this game right now."
On most maps where you can easily see/fight the enemy, the cav will usually clash first and fight first, whoever wins the cav battle will then be allowed to harass the opposing team's infantry from behind. Having cav is a very tremendous advantage over not having cav, you would be really dumb to not want any cav on your team. Sometimes you might encounter a Cav Hero, who can basically kill all of the enemy cav by himself, and then the rest of the enemy team by himself. While it may look like he is doing everything solo and it is so easy, he wouldn't be able to do it unless his teammates keep distracting the enemy team by being a target. People walking around on the ground are basically cannon fodder to protect the horses.
cavalry is kinda like the modern sky,who who controls the sky controls the battle field
Anything more complicated of "Everybody follow me." is going to get fucked up when the plan goes to shit (It always does), it only works if there is someone you can listen to (Not read) and have the battleplan adapt as the situations change. It is true it is vulnerable to ranged, the blob is basically there as extra hitpoints for the heavy-hitters and killers of crpg. Everyone can have fun in a blob, especially if they like getting murdered and holding up their shield until such time as they are murdered.
no always its one of those sim0le plans that works like i said u need instant gratification and punishment,if they see your plan worked when they rolled with you they will do it again,if they see your plan worked because they died and did not follow you there gonna role with you
All I would say to the average joe players is stick with the group and if someone suggests something in chat, go with it.
If someone tries to change the plan after you already started the plan then 90% of times **** them and continue what you were doing.
^these dudes need to get smacked who derail shit its worse then not having a plan at all whenever someone like "NO GO LEFT NOT RIGHT" im like "UABITCHGTFO"
P.S wtf zero i poked u wit a Qstaff n u cut me head off then?trololol
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hmm..
I see no reason why an unknown player could not lead battles. It's more a matter of getting to be known, by trying to lead for an extended period and being active in chat. :)
From my experience the most annoying thing is someone suggesting the opposite of what we are doing right after spawning..
I've made the team agree to go left, and some sucker suggest, "RIGHT!".. I'm sure it's lol though.
What is even more annoying is when people do not understand what a charge IS. Crawling out in the field many seconds late. The successful charges works when everyone runs together AT THE SAME TIME. Communication is important of course.. And a charge should not be started too far away from the enemy. If the enemy charges, always countercharge.
They may have run further across the field and be more disorganized.
Generally I would welcome more fieldbattle maps, they are a bit too rare.
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I see no reason why an unknown player could not lead battles. It's more a matter of getting to be known, by trying to lead for an extended period and being active in chat. :)
Try again Thomek...
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i covered that as well in one of my posts lol perhaps i said it incorrectly :(
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Try again Thomek...
Maybe he means not a known player like Balbaroth etc.
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These kind of threads about basic tactics keep popping up from time, I'm sure players who somewhat care about it arleady know this stuff. The problem however like im sure someone has already mentioned is to get a team in public to follow your orders. There are always players who can't understand you, won't pay attention, won't agree with your tactics or simply don't care about it. If you are gonna use anything somewhat complex it usually ends up in your team splitting up and some of them getting killed off which leaves you at disadvantage. The best you can really do in public (with your entire team) is to try to keep the group together and direct them to left/right or tell them to camp or charge, so those who don't give a shit about tactics probably follow the group with sheep mentality as well.
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Tactics really are difficult because most people will follow simple instructions at the beginning of the round, then get bored and run off to die. If you say "Stay on hills they have significantly more cav, we'll move down once cav are thinned a bit" people will follow up the hill, wait 15 seconds, then run downhill to get slaughtered by the cav.
Replace this with almost any disavantageous situation (other team has a height advantage, other team has more archers, whatever) and many teams would still rather run straight forward, lose every round, then complain about their teammates or "broken classes" rather than take a few seconds to use a simple strategy that would land them a win.
e: Even worse is when you do get a group of people working together, but it ends up only being half of the team so the other half gets mowed down by the entirety of the enemy force, then they turn their attention to the teamworkers for an easy 2 to 1 ratio stomping.
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Although Cyber is right, ofcourse, there is something i'd like to add:
One of the best tricks a commander can use to ensure the group stays together is a very simple one: use the same plan the majority of the mob was going to use anyway.
Sounds silly, but it's key to good commanding on public servers. See (or guess) which way most of the players want to go and enforce that with some caps in teamchat and maybe a few voice commands.
Another random thought that just popped into my head: please do not spam the voice commands. Not only is it annoying but you are also giving away the plan to the enemy. Minor, i know, but keep it in mind anyway. Don't spam voice commands unless you really need to.
About being a 'known' commander versus being unknown: don't worry. People will listen if you are reasonable, persistent and patient. Or they won't. Being known helps, i agree, but everyone must start somewhere. I was unknown too, ages ago. I just started doing it and stuck with it. If you play often, people will start to recognize you.
Pick an outfit people can recognize and stick with that.
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Like being the NA resident Weabo. 8-)
I'll be honest being known really does help in getting people to listen to you, but once your plan fails the first time the odds of them accepting another of your plans for the next few rounds decreases dramatically.
In addition people respond better if they've been losing for the past two rounds. They want a change and are open to an idea as opposed to the first one-two rounds. Keep in mind I never plan in the first match because of the auto-balance afterwards.
Any plan you use with pubs should be extremely simple, limited to only a direction or a clear goal, and avoid take and hold plans except for lulzy ones like barn, those people will follow. Elsewise it's more likely people get bloodthirsty and run off on their own rather than sit on a spot, regardless of the advantages. It helps to if you've been losing suggest as a plan the exact opposite of what you've been doing, I recall this was my most effective strategies in terms of people actually listening when you had that map with two bridges and the choice to go left or right and engage. If you were consistantly losing left, I'd spam go right while I was dead and at the start of next round. Odds are people listen and it throws the enemy team off balance, contributing to their demise.
It also helps to have a few pals of yours shout out and agree with your plan to add some validity to it.
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My main consern before writing this post was to try and moderate the nonsensical running that is in every battle nowadays , the initial mindless running.
I have little faith in trying to make complicated or detailed plans.
I love the magical selforganizing tactics that sometimes appear.
Was just thinking if more players knew the result of the mindless running, that you sacrefice a good portion of you team inorder to get into combat as fast as possible.
The constant running is just viable for hardened melee, softer players or those who have to stop occationally are left to fend for themselves.
Instead of trying to make complicated tactical plans , it would help if everyone tried to figure out how their role could work towards a teamwin by groupwork.
And not giving into to killhunger and ADD.
Then the magical selforganizing would be even more efficent.
When a significant portion just runs off at start, you doom many possibilities for teamwork other than the meleegangbang.
This leave a large number of players just working as decoys and meatshields while they could have been more efficient given some time to prepare.
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pretty much this
Organizing pubs to any degree is a difficult task.
And often i've seen people i've never heard of trying to organize a mostly clanless team.
They struggle to do so to say the least.
Alot of times pubs will only listen to either spammed commands from well known/ players who top the charts.
looks something like
LEFT
LEFT
LEFT
LEFT
LFTE
LEFT
L
FETL
FLET
we've all seen it
Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.
More of a crapshoot than anything
It'd actually be pretty easy to organize a pub if a game (a 2nd generation game at that) included in game voice comm on release. 2009 or 2010 when Warband came out and what? Like 2007 for M&B? I can maybe, kind of, sort of see a rationale behind the original not coming with a voice comm, but the 2nd game has no excuse for it.
Make a simple gui that allows you to mute annoying people and now there's literally no reason not to include it. I've pubbed so many different FPS games from small servers (under 20) to large ones of 100+ that had voice comm and pubbers were relatively organized when they could talk on the fly to their teammates.
BTW, I agree with the points the OP was making. And the word to describe the mindlessness is called "mob mentality". And for the most part you are stupid if you don't follow the mob even if it means walking into a certain death. If there is one team that has 30 people in a mob roaming around, and you don't have anywhere near that number, generally speaking you don't stand a chance (obviously terrain and the units you have with you matter, just as a general rule though you should stick w/ the mob if you're infantry).
CSB: I love when your team is losing every round in a pub and they still decide to march across open ground to the meat grinder doing the exact same thing they've done the past 3 or 4 rounds. As cavalry it's much harder to pick people off if they are grouped up in a crowd (even if they are all non-polearms the chances of me or my horse taking damage or dying are pretty high). I, and I believe most other smart cav, go after the lone footmen who can't defend themselves. I try to avoid other cav unless it's to protect my infantry. It's like a lion or a shark, you're going to go after the easy target before you take on an elephant. So many times in a round I see what the OP is talking about where 1/4 or so of the team is too slow to keep up with the mob and they are easy pickings for cavalry.
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When lancing from horseback, I imagine myself as some kind of Spitfire or Mustang, strafing chocolate chip cookie infantry during some long forgotten battle of WW2. The roles are pretty much the same too, the light cav plays the role of the fighter, keeping the other light cav engaged and away from the bomber heavy cav. Horse Archers/Crossbowmen are basically dicks that nobody likes and have a minimal impact on the battle, the best way they can do anything is by assassinating high-value targets, taking out enemy horses, they are basically interceptors, really good at shooting down fighters but not having the firepower to hurt bombers.
Yeah, Cav do act like fighter pilots, but that's kind of stupid. Some of my best games as a thrower were going on flanking mission with a few pikemen and archers following the cav into the fields- everyone else on foot always went the other way. If we held back their cav would rush us, and sometimes they would be stupid enough to charge me, which 75% of the time meant they were dead, or at least their horses were, or they would circle around fighting our cav, having a real bitch keeping track of where we on the ground were. Suddenly they would get stopped by a pike and find themselves chopped or pierced or lanced. If they were dehorsed they were insta-dead because you can't fight melee with enemy cav around. If our guys got dehorsed they had an infantry group they could join, increasing their survival big time.
Around cav I'm pretty cheap with my jarids, as I don't want to waste shots or team hit; but it feels good enough to see enemies veering way out of my way when they see my arm raised- maybe making them veer into a couched lance or a raised pike. Of course I get knocked over by friendly cav quite a bit, but that's ok- I want them to watch the enemy, not me. I can take several good horse bumps, but not many couched lances.
Point is that by working with foot soldiers the enemy didn't have a chance. After that we would all attack the flanks, cav running down enemy foot while I and the other infantry would climb ladders and ruins etc and take out the ranged. So, quit being sky jocks and slow down a bit and work with us (unless you are on the enemy team)!
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Yeah, Cav do act like fighter pilots, but that's kind of stupid. Some of my best games as a thrower were going on flanking mission with a few pikemen and archers following the cav into the fields- everyone else on foot always went the other way.
You might be what some refer to as a "flak-trap".
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i couldn't stop laughing at this, i wish i could see only one of them doing this
cav players are the most immature players in this mod, and they are thinking only about them selves, and their hunger for easy kills
You have never seen riding (sober) then :P I always do that and most of the time it works like a charm.
You might be what some refer to as a "flak-trap".
Crouching thrower, hidden pikeman? I hate those guys xD
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Although Cyber is right, ofcourse, there is something i'd like to add:
One of the best tricks a commander can use to ensure the group stays together is a very simple one: use the same plan the majority of the mob was going to use anyway.
Sounds silly, but it's key to good commanding on public servers. See (or guess) which way most of the players want to go and enforce that with some caps in teamchat and maybe a few voice commands.
Right. Don't try and change the pack into doing something complicated, they can't. If you have a more organized sub-group (a clan or two, some smarter followers) and want to do some more sophisticated tactics, it should take into account of the public pack and what it will do, how long it will survive with depleted #s (if you are detaching your own soldiers, who are usually the better ones).
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You might be what some refer to as a "flak-trap".
LOL, I like it.
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The tactic that i can never understand is the barrier/barricade one.
One teams uses its barricades and sets them up, facing one way.
Why does the other team always then set up their barricades facing the other barricades.
Why don't they move round 90 degrees, and set up theirs facing to the side of enemy barricades?