cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Wulzzz on January 29, 2011, 01:35:27 pm

Title: Horse archery skill
Post by: Wulzzz on January 29, 2011, 01:35:27 pm
How exactly does it work?
Is it dependent on Power draw skill?
So is HA 4 with 5 Power draw(strong bow) less accurate on horse than HA 4 with 4 Power draw(khirgit bow)
Also has WPF an effect on Horse archery?

Does the Horse archery skill also add damage while shooting from horse?
Has higher rider skill an effect on Horse archery?
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Murchad on January 29, 2011, 03:56:18 pm
horse archery decreases accuracy penalty when on horseback
horse archery decreases damage penalty when on horseback
not sure what else

so ya you do more damage than without it but still less than foot archer (I think at level 6ha there is no longer a damage penalty) but you are not likely to get that with level 35 hardcap
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Wulzzz on January 29, 2011, 04:14:47 pm
I see

Well, but the accuracy on horse depends on the Power draw level and HA skill, right?
See my example above.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: gazda on January 29, 2011, 04:31:19 pm
simplified, more power draw more accuracy, more horse archery less penalty for accuracy and dammage on horse
 thats how things are now, i dont know will they make any changes in future patches
 
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Wulzzz on January 29, 2011, 04:37:03 pm
More power draw=more accuracy on horse?
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Murchad on January 29, 2011, 05:03:15 pm
unlike the previous version PD has a positive effect on accuracy, you still need lots of wpf to be accurate but some pd above the requirement on bow helps accuracy. only thing horse does is decrease accuracy while moving and has the damage penalty, all other mechanics are the same.

just to help you out a bit for a horsearcher you want 3-5pd 4-5horsearchery 8-10wm and 4-6riding
so while pd is good for accuracy, on a horsearcher the horsearchery skill is most important so you will most likely not have enough stat points to go for very much pd
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Wulzzz on January 29, 2011, 05:19:34 pm
My current build is
Riding 4
HA 4
PD 4
WM 9

And well.. only horse archering is important for me..from WM 8 - 9 i haven't really seen a difference in HA accuracy.. i drop it next time i retire i guess.

I'm looking to go either
Riding 3
HA 5
PD 4
WM8

or
Riding 3
HA 4
PD 5
WM8

So..How does PD change the accuracy on horse.Does higher PD increase accuracy(since when??) on horse while moving, or decrease.
Or does PD have no effect at all on Horse archery accuracy
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Maira on January 29, 2011, 05:22:15 pm
Power draw lowers archery wpf. By around 30 per power draw, I HEARD.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Murchad on January 29, 2011, 07:03:32 pm
Maira, since the patch pd no longer negativly effects accuracy, in fact the reverse is true.
it is more like native where you want to have 1-2 levels of pd over the bow's req for optimal accuracy
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Wulzzz on January 29, 2011, 07:11:24 pm
I have PD 4 and haven't seen a noticeable better accuracy using nomad bow(pd3) or hunting bow(pd1).

So .. the question if PD 4 with HA 4 and PD 5 with HA 4 got same accuracy is still floating around..anyone really knows it?
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Murchad on January 30, 2011, 04:26:21 pm
what is your archery wp?

right now i am 4ha 4pd about 170wp i will be lvl 30 next level with 5pd. ill screenshot the reticule to see if there is any diff.

-hint. when shooting from a full gallop slow down the split second before you shoot it will increase your accuracy alot. especially for long range battles with archers and to pull off long range headshots

I'm happy with my damage and accuracy right now and next retirement i think i'll try 4pd 4ha use all the skills i converted this time to diversify my char a bit eg. athletics/ps
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Wulzzz on January 30, 2011, 05:51:53 pm
well.Just retired and aiming for pd5 with HA 4 then
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Murchad on January 31, 2011, 05:37:59 pm
I leveled to 30 and went pd 5.. couldn't really notice a diff in accuracy on horseback. but the damage is nice.
still I think next time i will go 12str 24agi and use the 7 extra skill pts to give my HA some flexibilty.
I would say if you are leveling beyond 30 go for the 12str 30agi build.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: EliteDragon on February 01, 2011, 01:28:57 am
I leveled to 30 and went pd 5.. couldn't really notice a diff in accuracy on horseback. but the damage is nice.
still I think next time i will go 12str 24agi and use the 7 extra skill pts to give my HA some flexibilty.
I would say if you are leveling beyond 30 go for the 12str 30agi build.
How would I go about doing a 15STR and 24AGI build? I want to retire right when I hit 31...
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Murchad on February 01, 2011, 06:49:26 pm
ok to have 15str 24agi you are not going to be able to do any non HA skills this is my skill distribution
5pd
6riding
4ha
8wm (all in archery leaves 0wpf left over)
convert every other skill point to stat points.
the order i did was str to 9 to use decent weapons then agi to 24 then str up to 15

This build makes you most powerful for HA at level 30 but you are a one trick pony
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: EliteDragon on February 02, 2011, 01:10:15 am
Not necessarily Murchad...if instead of putting all WPF into archery, you stopped at maybe 160; I think you would be able to put a decent amount into 2H for a katana. Am i right? It would make you fairly decent on the ground and not completely useless.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Wulzzz on February 02, 2011, 01:54:05 pm
As archery you put all WPP into archery OF COURSE.

If you want 5 pd HA 4 i suggest you the following build:
15 str
24 agi(3 converted)

PS 5
Riding 4
HA 4
PD 5
WM 8

You should do 12 str until you reach 24 agi, then you go for 15 str.
This way you gonna have PD 5 at lvl 31 but good accuracy earlier.

This would be the best build i guess(all WPP in archery of course)


And use a maul, it has good blunt damage and is pretty cheap(keep in mind you are HA, no hybrid shit)
So you can invest more in a horse or armor.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Murchad on February 02, 2011, 08:47:53 pm
My build was based on lvl 30 because i always retire when i get to 31
i went without any ps because you have to convert more skills away. but I did get more riding (6)
cataphract is much more durable and better riding means more manouver and speed to avoid cav
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Wulzzz on February 02, 2011, 08:59:14 pm
? You must convert 6 skill points to 3 stat, or you can't get 15 str, 24 agi at lvl 31.

You could also switch the 5 PS to 5 more riding skill= 9 riding.
This would actually be pretty nice since you wouldfaster and maneuver better.
As for horse... i would suggest the desert horse.The high maneuverability just rocks.Most lance cav take courser,rouncy etc and.. you can outturn them so easily with desert horse.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Murchad on February 02, 2011, 09:49:46 pm
? You must convert 6 skill points to 3 stat, or you can't get 15 str, 24 agi at lvl 31.

You could also switch the 5 PS to 5 more riding skill= 9 riding.
This would actually be pretty nice since you wouldfaster and maneuver better.
As for horse... i would suggest the desert horse.The high maneuverability just rocks.Most lance cav take courser,rouncy etc and.. you can outturn them so easily with desert horse.

Ya thats exactly what i did but at level 30 so 3 skill points less, but desert horse dies to 2 of my arrows so i wouln't suggest it unless there are no enemy HA's
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: EliteDragon on February 16, 2011, 10:14:51 am
Ok..well for me, help me build around these stats.

Lvl 30

Str 15
Agi 24

Archery 160?
2H *enough to handle on ground*

PS 4-5
Riding 4-5
HA 4-5
PD 5-6
WM 6-8

This should allow for decent chance on foot, but still be a pretty good HA....also need some weapon choices, currently use a Katana as a secondary.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Dravic on February 16, 2011, 02:21:24 pm
Mhm. Sure. HA. I prefer HC [Horse Crossbowman], because i am more accurate while riding a horse with full speed (5 HA skill) but i have not same great accuracy as bows, because width of reticule isnt that small, however i cannot get better reticule (above 160 wpf it doesnt increase accuracy in any way, maybe only shot speed, but not sure).

Build:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 7
Agility: 30
Hit points: 42
Converted: 4
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 2
Shield: 0
Athletics: 0
Riding: 10
Horse Archery: 5
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 10
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 137
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 160
Throwing: 1
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: JackieChan on February 16, 2011, 02:38:03 pm
Well if u want to be a pure HA with good accuracy, ill suggest you this build:
Strength 12 
Agility 27 



One Handed 1   
Two Handed 1   
Polearm 1   
Archery 170-180 
Crossbow 1   
Throwing 1   
ironflesh 0 
Power Strike 0 
Shield 0 
Athletics 0 
Riding 6-9 ( riding is a very important skill for HA, as more horse riding skill u have, the more maneuvrable and rapid ur horse is) 
Horse Archery 4
Power Draw 4  (only if u heiloom at least 2 times ur khergit bow, cos with my "fine khergit bow" it has the same stats as the strong bow (spd rtng 66 shoot speed 51 thrust damage 24 cut accuracy 96 for fine khergit bow while unheiloomed strong bow has :spd rtng 63 shoot speed 51 thrust damage 24 cut accuracy 96)
Power Throw 0 
Weapon master * 9

with this build you can have 5 horse archery skill (wich is a GREAT boost to you are accuracy + dmg) at lvl 33
HA is one of the most important skill for horse archers, the more u have it, the better you will be in term of accuracy and damage.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Dravic on February 16, 2011, 02:43:58 pm
with this build you can have 5 horse archery skill (wich is a GREAT boost to you are accuracy + dmg) at lvl 33

Yeah! After 3+ months of exping your char, starting from 30 lvl. Nice.

My build allows you to have more dmg than your build, 10 riding, 5 HA skill on lvl... guess what... 30.

+ even some PS. And a lot of wpf in polearms/1h (only these two because 2handers require a lot of str and you only have 7).

Or in my build you can sacrifice 2 points in riding or 1 point in riding 1 point in WM for 1 additional str point, which is very important, if weapon you want to use from horseback/ground require 8 str, not 7.

I use lance/shortened spear/war spear (depending on what i like current day) with 0 ps (will be 2 on lvl 30) and 80 wpf atm. Guess what: it works to kill enemy horse archers, and with rest i can easly deal - just ride away with your 9 riding skill on palfrey/courser. On palfrey i can easly be faster than regular courser users with 5-6 riding skill. On courser... i am damn fast.

And of course, just to remind: im horse crossbowman
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: JackieChan on February 16, 2011, 03:00:40 pm
well , guess what? even with 0 ps and 0 wpp in polearm i can kill ppl with heavy lance, something that with your kind of build will not be possible, plus the rate of fire is severly reduced and a good lvl HA with high lvl can easl-ily "outspam" you. and addding to this with this low amount of stg you are severly limited armor wise, while with 12-15 stg you are able to use high tier armor which now with the patch dont decrease your wpp very much.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Wulzzz on February 16, 2011, 03:08:01 pm
But HA 4 with strong bow PD 5 still does more damage than HA 5 with khirgit bow PD 4.. right?..
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: JackieChan on February 16, 2011, 03:13:03 pm
yes, thats why i said you need to heiloom your khergitbow 2 times at least, and 1 wmaster is still i gain compared to 1 pd imo.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Nemeth on February 16, 2011, 03:16:25 pm
What is the point of giving him a build that requires you to retire twice to be effective and then be finished when he hits lvl 33?
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: JackieChan on February 16, 2011, 03:21:55 pm
well you dont have to be lvl 33 to have your build "finished" it is just that you will have the "perfect HA build". There is no way to get HA 5 without losing dmg or rapidity. My build was finished at lvl 31 with  13 stg(to be able to use elite khergit armor) 27 agi, 180 wpp + 4 HA + 7 riding+ 4 pd, and i managed to use very  veryyyy heavy armor and be still accurate. Even at level 30 you have basically the same built.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Dravic on February 16, 2011, 03:22:04 pm
What is the point of giving him a build that requires you to retire twice to be effective and then be finished when he hits lvl 33?

yeah, what is the point?

Because as i said my build ends on 30 lvl, your on 33 lvl. If you want to beat me, make build with good damage with horse archery 5 but on lvl 30. You see? How much dmg would you have and what bow would you use? Nomad?

;)

Light crossbow and my build for the win!
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Wulzzz on February 16, 2011, 03:23:41 pm
You can get HA 5, PD 4 at lvl 31 too if u use 4 riding skill and WM 7 or 8.
But... HA 5 will just end up in mass QQ.I got HA 4 with khirgit and everyone already QQs around..
Personally i think HA should be limited to 4.. to prevent future roundhousekick-everything on archer nerf.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Dravic on February 16, 2011, 03:27:34 pm
WHAT? LIMITED TO 4?

If i want to have 10 riding 5 HA skill and 10 wm and i am sacrificing str and ps and hp for that, what am i doing wrong? If i can pwn people in some range even while at full speed, thats good for me. I dont have to ride close to oponent so he can slash at me. But see, i have only 7 str/42hp/0if/2ps.


And QQing while you dont have ranged... thats the WHOLE point of horse archery, that you dont come too close, but still wound/kill.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: JackieChan on February 16, 2011, 03:30:34 pm
As i said, with your HC build ou are not able to use heavy armor + you will loose  rapidity (xbow take longer to reload than bow, just in case some of you are.. lets say.. retarded(just jking ;)) and i am posting a build that is for the long term, not a build you achieve in 1 day or so. But anyway, as I said again, with my build you are not unusefull at lvl 30, you are accurate, make goood dmg.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: JackieChan on February 16, 2011, 03:33:24 pm
sorry for the double post but... im am sorry but we are not in a battle field  couple of kilometers wide with enough space to go aroude the enemy without beeing lanced in the back by a enemy cavalry man or shot by some longbowman or sniper xbow. Armor is very important! well even if a horse archer or HC doesnt  come close to inf, it could still get  one shotted by other ranged if it has light armor.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: EliteDragon on February 17, 2011, 01:57:04 am
Ok..well for me, help me build around these stats.

Lvl 30

Str 15
Agi 24

Archery 160?
2H *enough to handle on ground*

PS 4-5
Riding 4-5
HA 4-5
PD 5-6
WM 6-8

This should allow for decent chance on foot, but still be a pretty good HA....also need some weapon choices, currently use a Katana as a secondary.

I appreciate the concern, but I need a build circulating around this...it might not be for you, but its been working great for me...any ideas?
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Wulzzz on February 17, 2011, 07:45:57 am
If you want PS :

(6 skill points converted to 3 stat)
5 PS
Riding 4
PD 5
HA 4
WM 8

Do 12 str first, then 24 agi(lvl 28)
At lvl 31 you gonna be able to use strong bow.

I find this build pretty in the ass pleasurable.
Throw away the shitty katana and use bardiche.It costs 1650 gold, got 43 cut, not so bad range, you can kill stuff with it from horse, not sooo slow.Katana is just too expensive and not worth it.Get armor instead.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Murchad on February 17, 2011, 08:10:08 pm
I've been on a break from HA for a bit but will retire tonight and make another HA,
this time I will try a less focused HA, last time was 15/24 pure HA

lvl 30
12str
24agi
4ps
4pd
4ha
8wm
6riding
3athletics (will be nice when dehorsed and on non HA maps)

gear will be
masterwork khergit
large sharp bodkins
heavy cataphract
durhizina lamellar
balanced elite scimitar
mail gloves
khergit boots
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Murchad on February 17, 2011, 08:38:20 pm
After I retire this next HA I am going to try a really experimental build

12str
30agi
5ha
4pd
111wm

2 extra skill points probobly in wm
I know it might suck but i want to see what 5HA is like this patch hopefully the accuracy wont be too bad with such low wpf
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Dravic on February 17, 2011, 08:41:17 pm
It will be just like xbows. And slightly slower than 15/24 version. Mighty Rache will outspam you with his/her [99% few times heirloomed] light xbow. Hes horse xbowman. hes my idol.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Wulzzz on February 17, 2011, 09:09:40 pm
After I retire this next HA I am going to try a really experimental build

12str
30agi
5ha
4pd
111wm

2 extra skill points probobly in wm
I know it might suck but i want to see what 5HA is like this patch hopefully the accuracy wont be too bad with such low wpf

?

lvl 31
Riding 3
PD 4
HA 5
WM 8 

Is also possible and it's not bad build.

It will be just like xbows. And slightly slower than 15/24 version. Mighty Rache will outspam you with his/her [99% few times heirloomed] light xbow. Hes horse xbowman. hes my idol.

? That would be something new to me lol..
The damage per time of HC and HA are almost same..but your hits must hit or you get pwned..we can live with some misses.

Btw an equal HA compared to Rache will still rip him apart ;)
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Murchad on February 17, 2011, 09:59:51 pm
where does rache play?

xbows haven't given me trouble in the past as long as I dont miss much and can interupt attack animation, with my last char i had no trouble htting my target. and with heavy armor the light xbows dont do that much dmg. with light armor usually 2 hits.

I have seen some heavy horse xbows that are hard to take out (plated charger + plate armor)but all the ones i have come across havent been that good at shooting.

-ya it's alot easier to make good builds the higher you go but I always make them level 30 because you get to test a long time from 30-31 but at 31 i instantly retire
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Dravic on February 17, 2011, 10:07:11 pm
Rache usually plays on eu 1, 2 and 4bt1 (battle servers)
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: EliteDragon on February 18, 2011, 12:52:22 am
Ok..well for me, help me build around these stats.

Lvl 30

Str 15
Agi 24

Archery 160?
2H *enough to handle on ground*

PS 4-5
Riding 4-5
HA 4-5
PD 5-6
WM 6-8

This should allow for decent chance on foot, but still be a pretty good HA....also need some weapon choices, currently use a Katana as a secondary.

So let's say I went something like this...would I not need any 2H WPF because of how much PS I would have? I also like retiring right at lvl 31.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Ishtar_Soup on February 25, 2011, 03:34:28 am
Hey Guys, I'll be retiring tomorrow!
The past 2 Generations, i've played straight archers.
This time around, i want to try a HA, because they simply rock!

Ill be trying this build:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 18
Agility: 21


Riding: 7
Horse Archery: 3
Power Draw: 6
Weapon Master: 7

Archery: 164

I know it's still a hybrid build, but would it still be viable?
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Formless on February 25, 2011, 04:02:01 am
While I have not played an HA in a long time, this most likely is not the build I would go with.  Just because the Horse Archery skill is too low.  At HA of 3 your reticule on a moving horse would be too large.



Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Murchad on February 25, 2011, 06:17:03 am
I agree formless, but on the flipside arrows that do hit will hurt alot more
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Cyclonite on February 25, 2011, 06:49:57 am
This is the level 30 build I am trying right now. It is designed for pure archery and max damage.

    * Strength: 21
    * Agility: 18
    * Hit points: 56

    * Converted: 8
    * Power Strike: 1
    * Riding: 6
    * Horse Archery: 3
    * Power Draw: 7
    * Weapon Master: 6

     Archery: 156

HA3 is good enough for me. I can hit other mounts pretty easily while moving full speed and for everything else I slow down to make accurate shots. It also gives me the option to use warbow for non-mount maps.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Ishtar_Soup on February 25, 2011, 06:58:13 am
Well if you could keep us posted on your progress it would be nice.
The thing i'm scared of is that a low WPF and the Horse Archery penalty might make it hell to shoot.

Wasn't it -60% of your WPF that is taken out if you have no HA skills, then it goes down 10% per HA point. (50% at 1 HA, 40% at 2 HA... so on)

So when you get 4 HA, you need to take 20% out of your WPF stat out to get an idea of how precise you are.
The thing i'm wondering about that 'Rumour' is if the penalty applies to your WPF skill number or the number of WPF skill points you've spent in one domain.

Cheers
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Cyclonite on February 25, 2011, 07:26:50 am
Well I am level 28 so far with 18/18 str/agil with 152 archery pd6 and ha3 and it seems fine to me. The HA penalty does not get applied when the mount is stopped. The penalty slowly increases as your mount speed increases. If you learn to keep your mount at half speed to quarter speed the penalty really isn't that bad. IMO HA4 is for people who want to ride full speed most of the time and be accurate as possible. The argument of HA3 vs HA4 is really do you want more damage or accuracy.

If you can't decide then the best thing you can do is level your character to 18 agility first and see if HA3 works for you. At that point you can either decide to fill out 24 agility for HA4 or add more strength for damage.
Title: Re: Horse archery skill
Post by: Wulzzz on February 27, 2011, 08:48:36 am
Well.. i would at least go for HA 4 the usage difference from ha 3-> ha 4 is really big and makes u be able to actually play as an Horse Archer effectively.