cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gawin on September 24, 2011, 08:33:49 pm

Title: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gawin on September 24, 2011, 08:33:49 pm
I did a trade fair and square with a guy named UltimateWar. i Traded him my +3 huscarl for a +2 crossbow and a +2 scimitar. i later traded those two for a champion catapracht and 100k ( i know i pretty much gave him a loom point). It turns out UltimateWar stole the scimitar from whoever idk. Now you take away my champion catapracht and take 100k from me? i should get a few heirloom points or some gold. its not my fault i didnt know the scimitar was stolen so why make me pay the price instead of UltimateWar who cheated us. I atleast want my +3 catapracht horse and 100k back.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                Gawin of the Fallen Brigade
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: The_Angle on September 24, 2011, 08:35:21 pm
Here Hear this guy out.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Leshma on September 24, 2011, 08:36:00 pm
Can't believe he actually did that :shock:

And he don't want to help us, who made mistake by not checking modifier and thus lost x3 item. He can do it but he won't.

Bad chadz.

I'm disappointed.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: arowaine on September 24, 2011, 08:45:53 pm
to be honest chadz i think you need to go at the begingin of the story and make the first guys that cheat the second and make pay the first guys that did trade this scimitar cause all other did trade without thinking this items was stole or cheat or whatever. Pls make people happy give them their shit and make pay the first guys that cheat you THE RIGTH one! thanks for giving my stuff back but its bad that you make pay a other one that the wrong one instead! :(         

PS: go back to the source :)
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gawin on September 24, 2011, 08:47:51 pm
thank you arowaine
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Siiem on September 24, 2011, 08:50:49 pm
Here this guy out.

To the door?
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Cepeshi on September 24, 2011, 09:00:51 pm
Hi,
it's signed.
I can only approved.

Cepeshi
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Cyber on September 24, 2011, 09:33:34 pm
I hope u get your items back.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Vibe on September 24, 2011, 09:37:20 pm
Didn't someone warn us about this UltimateWar guy already?
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: DrKronic on September 24, 2011, 09:42:29 pm
got ripped off

report it as a loss on your tax return
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gawin on September 24, 2011, 09:44:00 pm
Didn't someone warn us about this UltimateWar guy already?
yeah i just stated it out as soon as arowaine got jacked
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Leesin on September 24, 2011, 10:32:55 pm
report it as a loss on your tax return

He never got ripped off, he did a fair trade, but chadz took items from him because the item he traded for had been scammed by UltimateWar from another player, well that's what I get from the OP, so Gawin has done nothing wrong and is being punished for it.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gingerpussy on September 24, 2011, 10:42:16 pm
But how to trace that it was a fair deal ? +3 item vs 2 +2 items is a bit to good to be true. How do chadz know if UltimateWar was not controlled by somone you know ? If i where a cheater and scammer i would allways make a 3rd party takeover to cover tracks ofc.

Im not saying you did. but in all fairness you should get back only what you started with, those 2 +2 items that is.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 24, 2011, 10:42:59 pm
But how to trace that it was a fair deal ? +3 item vs 2 +2 items is a bit to good to be true. How do chadz know if UltimateWar was not controlled by somone you know ? If i where a cheater and scammer i would allways make a 3rd party takeover to cover tracks ofc.

Im not saying you did. but in all fairness you should get back only what you started with, those 2 +2 items that is.

Would still be better then the nothing he has.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gawin on September 24, 2011, 11:12:09 pm
i have the +2 crossbow thats it.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Reyiz on September 24, 2011, 11:13:34 pm
help this guy
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Leesin on September 24, 2011, 11:37:16 pm
Leaving someone to learn from their own naivity is far better than taking items off of someone else ( i.e Gawin in this case ) who traded fairly just to make it all better for the guy who was stupid enough to get scammed in the first place. Hope Gawin gets atleast his starting items back and whoever got scammed learns from their mistake.

Trusting strangers, especially over the internet, is a very stupid thing to do, atleast where I come from, I am surprised this is still happening to people after all the scams the other week.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Zombie on September 25, 2011, 12:16:20 am
Yeah chadz fucked you. Hope you get your starting items back.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gawin on September 25, 2011, 01:44:27 am
bump so chadz can see this
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on September 25, 2011, 01:50:46 am
ABUSE
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Native_ATS on September 25, 2011, 01:53:25 am
ABUSE
LOL Best pic ever!
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tzar on September 25, 2011, 02:57:26 am
HEIRLOOM RESET BASED ON GEN LVL NOAAAW!!!
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Zekerage on September 25, 2011, 03:12:24 am
Absolutely not. I currently have 2 Heirloom points OVER my gen because I spent my Gold on them. I know many others have "bought" heirloom points. That'd give WAY too many people the shaft, one way or the other.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Achelous on September 25, 2011, 03:17:24 am
Damn poor guy i feel you're anger im gen 9 and only have 7 looms supposed to get them back from the patch and never seen a single thing, i hope you get you're looms back
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Casimir on September 25, 2011, 06:14:34 am
im with chadz
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gawin on September 25, 2011, 03:33:36 pm
Bump so chadz can see
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Lysander on September 25, 2011, 03:44:57 pm
BUMPedeepump

poor guy :(

help him!
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on September 25, 2011, 03:51:41 pm
chadz sucks anyway..
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Akryn on September 25, 2011, 05:06:41 pm
I agree that it's rather unfair and Gawin should be compensated.
/signed
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 25, 2011, 05:18:47 pm
You people's agreement doesn't mean anything...

Gawin went about this the totally wrong way and wrong tone, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's not compensated. If he is, it's not because he got some people to agree with him.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Leesin on September 25, 2011, 05:28:26 pm
You people's agreement doesn't mean anything...

Gawin went about this the totally wrong way and wrong tone, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's not compensated. If he is, it's not because he got some people to agree with him.

What like all the people crying and raging on the forum when they were stupid enough to get scammed because they trusted a complete stranger over the internet?, which then lead to the scammers being punished because everyone was calling for their heads.

Gawin simply has stated what he would like atleast in return, because quite frankly, he has done nothing wrong and is in his full right to expect his items back. Especially when there are a ton of idiots who get their items returned when they lost them due to their own stupidity.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 25, 2011, 05:38:56 pm
What like all the people crying and raging on the forum when they were stupid enough to get scammed because they trusted a complete stranger over the internet?, which then lead to the scammers being punished because everyone was calling for their heads.

Gawin simply has stated what he would like atleast in return, because quite frankly, he has done nothing wrong and is in his full right to expect his items back. Especially when there are a ton of idiots who get their items returned when they lost them due to their own stupidity.

Different case, different story. No one to punish in Gawin's case. Maybe he will get compensated, who knows! But he could have made his request in a little less, uh, demanding tone.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gawin on September 25, 2011, 05:45:13 pm
hmm if i dont use a commanding tone then they might think i really dont care about my items, thus thinking it doesnt really matter. its because i used a commanding tone it implies that i really want my items back.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: DrTaco on September 25, 2011, 06:56:51 pm
hmm if i dont use a commanding tone then they might think i really dont care about my items, thus thinking it doesnt really matter. its because i used a commanding tone it implies that i really want my items back.

Well played!
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gawin on September 25, 2011, 11:31:02 pm
Pika Bump!
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 25, 2011, 11:39:45 pm
chadz's seen this most likely, he was postan' in some other General Discussion threads around the time this was at the top. It could be that your self-entitled tactic failed!
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gawin on September 26, 2011, 12:06:13 am
chadz's seen this most likely, he was postan' in some other General Discussion threads around the time this was at the top. It could be that your self-entitled tactic failed!
if youre not trying to help me why the hell are you here?
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: DrKronic on September 26, 2011, 12:10:39 am
if youre not trying to help me why the hell are you here?

You're insolence shall not be rewarded!
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 26, 2011, 12:18:01 am
if youre not trying to help me why the hell are you here?

I am trying to help you! Maybe you should, like, ask nicely? Because the devs owe you nothing, demanding that they give you your looms back is bratty.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gawin on September 26, 2011, 12:38:17 am
I am trying to help you! Maybe you should, like, ask nicely? Because the devs owe you nothing, demanding that they give you your looms back is bratty.
techanacly they stole my looms. they did not counsult with me about it. if you take something from someone without permission, thats called stealing. so ofcourse im demanding it back.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Classical on September 26, 2011, 12:43:43 am
Have you tried spamming IRC, I heard that works.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gawin on September 26, 2011, 12:44:33 am
i did
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 26, 2011, 01:26:32 am
techanacly they stole my looms. they did not counsult with me about it. if you take something from someone without permission, thats called stealing. so ofcourse im demanding it back.

That's the attitude. Much better. chadz stole your items. He didn't even consult you about it. How dare he.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 26, 2011, 01:36:15 am
Well Xant does have a point, you could have approached this way more smoothly.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 26, 2011, 01:56:38 am
Well Xant does have a point, you could have approached this way more smoothly.

Your approval means the world to me, Bjord.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 26, 2011, 02:01:37 am
Your approval means the world to me, Bjord.

 
Don't get used to it.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 26, 2011, 02:05:26 am
Considering that chadz took it in the first place and never returned Gawin's original stuff, I very much doubt that he will be getting it back regardless of how he words it.

When Rohypnol and others were scammed, Meow informed everyone that it would likely take too much time to trace every transaction, so don't count on getting items back. With statements like this, I don't see how any kind of wording will speed thing along to be perfectly honest.

I would love to see Gawin get his stuff back, but the track record for this is bleak.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: cmp on September 26, 2011, 02:10:59 am
It sure doesn't help if you accuse chadz of stealing items. :lol:
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 26, 2011, 02:11:41 am
It sure doesn't help if you accuse chadz of stealing items. :lol:

According to the English Language, chadz did steal them.

When people mess up, other people rarely sugar coat it when pointing out the mess.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: cmp on September 26, 2011, 02:13:20 am
According to the English Language, chadz did steal them.

Can't steal something that you own.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 26, 2011, 02:14:03 am
Can't steal something that you own.

On the other hand, you can steal something that was someone elses.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: cmp on September 26, 2011, 02:14:38 am
On the other hand, you can steal something that was someone elses.

Since that doesn't apply to this case, no point in bringing it up. :|
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 26, 2011, 02:17:40 am
It still doesn't alter the logic in the fact of smarter approach. To be honest his attitude is just piss poor. He can kiss any possible intervention from devs good bye thanks to it.
 
And to hammer the last nail into your coffin you call the creator of this mod, the one who might've helped you a thief. Bravo, I applaud you. :golfclap:
Hope that works out for ya!
 
And ToD, give it up. You're always trying to come up with having something to argue against, or some underdog to side with. :lol:
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 26, 2011, 02:18:48 am
There are no underdogs in cRPG, just a bunch of people pretending to be something.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Leshma on September 26, 2011, 02:20:42 am
Devs take stuff way too personal imho. That is good and bad thing at the same time. Good cause it shows that they care about us, people who play their mod and bad, cause they make mistakes cause they get emotional and stuff.

So it's better not to piss them off.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 26, 2011, 02:21:58 am
There are no underdogs in cRPG, just a bunch of people pretending to be something.

 
Isn't that also true for the rest of the Internet?
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 26, 2011, 02:22:35 am
Thank you Leshma, I had no idea that it would be best not to piss off the Devs when they can singlehandedly disable your ability to play the game on a whim.

I never thought of that before.


 
Isn't that also true for the rest of the Internet?

For the vast majority of it, yes.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on September 26, 2011, 02:23:16 am
Quote
There are no underdogs in cRPG, just a bunch of people pretending to be something.

Let's all quote this in the future. We can put it in our signatures, and everybody would dance like nobody's grandfather.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 26, 2011, 02:26:25 am
Well isn't this thread just full of redundancy. :lol:
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 26, 2011, 02:37:34 am
Can't steal something that you own.

Exactly -- It's chadz's mod, all the items, everything, in it belongs to him. He owes Gawin nothing. Therefore it would've served the aforementioned person better to ask nicely.

c-RPG is a free mod.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Casimir on September 26, 2011, 04:18:31 am
technically speaking theft is appropriation of property belonging to another WITH intention too permanently deprive.



(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Harafat on September 26, 2011, 04:33:56 am
technically speaking theft is appropriation of property belonging to another WITH intention too permanently deprive.



(click to show/hide)

+1
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Cheap_Shot on September 26, 2011, 04:42:59 pm
Exactly -- It's chadz's mod, all the items, everything, in it belongs to him. He owes Gawin nothing. Therefore it would've served the aforementioned person better to ask nicely.

c-RPG is a free mod.

So in a made up situation, if say you did a lot of trading on the market place, and one day you find out that chadz had taken all your items and gold or even deleted your account because a number of trades ago, unknown to you, a stolen item had passed your hands in an innocent seeming manner. You wouldn't be mad because it's acctually chadz's account right? You must have spent days if not months grinding gold and experience to get those heirlooms and things for chadz.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Overdriven on September 26, 2011, 05:25:43 pm
Xant...helpful as always.

Gawin has every right to be annoyed. It seems a bit odd that he wasn't at least consulted first. Seeing as his transaction had nothing to do with UltimateWar's original scamming. There's no arguing against that it was badly handled by whoever took his items away. I'd say Gawin's original post was actually quite calm considering. Many people would post a thread that was far more flaming/insulting to the devs.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 26, 2011, 05:30:15 pm
He has every right to be pissed off and curse at chadz. But if he wants something a good idea is often to be as humble as he can.

After all, to show true humility is to not give in to anger and frustration no matter what. It can sound harsh, but that's how it is.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 26, 2011, 05:32:20 pm
Considering Gawin's age I think he was stunningly calm.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Overdriven on September 26, 2011, 05:34:47 pm
He has every right to be pissed off and curse at chadz. But if he wants something a good idea is often to be as humble as he can.

After all, to show true humility is to not give in to anger and frustration no matter what. It can sound harsh, but that's how it is.

In most cases in real life, being humble rarely get's you anywhere. Especially when you're dealing with a case like this. If you aren't more demanding, then often you'll just be ignored/no one will pay attention to you and other cases will come first from people who are demanding.

If the guys who took his items away (not going to place the blame on someone) are the kind of people who expect someone who's been wronged by them to come begging/whatever to them to get it back. Then they have definitely lost my respect. Whoever removed his items should fully expect a serious/demanding tone.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 26, 2011, 05:38:43 pm
While I agree with you Overdriven, I would remind you of the attitudes and known methods of handling things from the Devs. The devs are known trolls.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 26, 2011, 05:46:12 pm
In most cases in real life, being humble rarely get's you anywhere. Especially when you're dealing with a case like this. If you aren't more demanding, then often you'll just be ignored/no one will pay attention to you and other cases will come first from people who are demanding.

If the guys who took his items away (not going to place the blame on someone) are the kind of people who expect someone who's been wronged by them to come begging/whatever to them to get it back. Then they have definitely lost my respect. Whoever removed his items should fully expect a serious/demanding tone.

In this case, considering the support he got from everyone he didn't have to be demanding. Most of you did it for him. The tactically sound approach would have been to try and appeal to their sense of justice.

That is if the devs have any sense of justice... :lol:

Anyway I wish Gavin the best, I hope he gets redeemed. I pray the devs have the kindness in them to put some time aside and help him. I can't argue against the fact that he has been wronged, either way.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Overdriven on September 26, 2011, 05:54:00 pm
The tactically sound approach would have been to try and appeal to their sense of justice.

Probably right.

Should also probably have followed the usual form of approach:

1. Call customer support (IRC?). If this doesn't work and produce results, step 2.
2. Write formal letter of complaint to higher ups (chadz ect) involving threatening of lawyers and to take it public. If this still fails then step 3.
3. GO PUBLIC with an epic story of how you were horribly wronged (General Discussion forum).

Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 26, 2011, 05:55:33 pm
Going public almost never helps in cRPG. Gaining the support of the masses is near useless when you are not in an electorial system
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Overdriven on September 26, 2011, 05:56:35 pm
Going public never helps in cRPG. Gaining the support of the masses is useless when you are not in an electorial system

True for crpg. But it helps against big companies in real life  :)
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 26, 2011, 05:57:28 pm
Very true.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Oberyn on September 26, 2011, 06:03:44 pm
In most cases in real life, being humble rarely get's you anywhere. Especially when you're dealing with a case like this. If you aren't more demanding, then often you'll just be ignored/no one will pay attention to you and other cases will come first from people who are demanding.

If the guys who took his items away (not going to place the blame on someone) are the kind of people who expect someone who's been wronged by them to come begging/whatever to them to get it back. Then they have definitely lost my respect. Whoever removed his items should fully expect a serious/demanding tone.

It's not like cRPG is some bureaucratic, red tape nightmare, and it's not like this guy's mortgage/money/job/life/whatever depends on it. People have a direct line of communication with the devs (whenever they're not, you know, living their lives) and nothing, nothing at all in this game is worth turning into an entitled brat to get your way. Squeaky wheel might get the grease in RL in most situations, but this is a frigging forum for a free online video game. It's a terrible comparison. No one is asking people to be pushovers.
How someone with less of a sense of entitlement would have handled this? Log on IRC, query one of the devs after asking who is around, tell them "Hey, there seems to have been a mistake, some of the looms I traded disapeared, I got them from that scammer but I had no idea it was hot goods, any way of getting either my item or the money back?". Stomping around demanding to see the manager might get you results down at the local McDonalds, but here it's just gonna make the devs ignore you. No one is an employee here, you are not a customer, you have zero rights. Devs are doing this as a hobby, they have no obligations to anyone.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Overdriven on September 26, 2011, 06:13:40 pm
(click to show/hide)

See following post  :D
(click to show/hide)

Anyway, devs may spend hours of their day making the mod. But we spend hours of our day playing it. You need both to have something. Having one without the other is useless unless devs are happy to just spend time coding ect for the sake of it. The same way a business needs customers. Just because a business splashes out lots of money to make something, doesn't mean we don't equally spend a lot of money/effort to buy it. In terms of crpg it's a time investment. It's the exact same thing.

If devs wrong someone and remove something they've spent hours and hours working on (i.e gaining heirlooms and being able to trade them). Then I personally think you should have every right to feel a sense of entitlement and as such be able to demand compensation or whatever. The same way the devs should feel entitled to slam anyone who tells them they are doing a crappy job at coding the game or if someone say copies their work without their permission, because that's what they've spent tons of time doing.

Yes Gawin should probably have approached the devs more directly than a post on the forums. But I still think even if he had, there should be nothing wrong in feeling a sense of entitlement. As both sides have invested something in this mod. Arguing that this mod is free, as some have, has nothing to do with it. If I were the devs I'd jump at the chance to help someone I may have wronged. Regardless of how they approached me. As it was likely my fault in the first place. It helps if the community see's that such things are dealt with quickly.

Edit:

It's already been stated that the devs are known trolls. And it's a bit sad that they are viewed that way in my opinion. This mod would grow a lot more if both sides dealt with each more decently. But fact is, if you make a complaint as such, and all you receive are some unhelpful answers from devs/admins/whatever. Then people are not going to respect the devs regardless of the work they do.

Just as if you come on here and write a post flaming the devs/swearing/insulting ect, then you will lose the respect of them and the community.

But Gawin's post I think was well addressed, even if he should have gone to them directly first.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Oberyn on September 26, 2011, 06:23:44 pm
See following post  :D
Anyway, devs may spend hours of their day making the mod. But we spend hours of our day playing it. You need both to have something. Having one without the other is useless unless devs are happy to just spend time coding ect for the sake of it. The same way a business needs customers. Just because a business splashes out lots of money to make something, doesn't mean we don't equally spend a lot of money/effort to buy it. In terms of crpg it's a time investment. It's the exact same thing.

If devs wrong someone and remove something they've spent hours and hours working on (i.e gaining heirlooms and being able to trade them). Then I personally think you should have every right to feel a sense of entitlement and as such be able to demand compensation or whatever. The same way the devs should feel entitled to slam anyone who tells them they are doing a crappy job at coding the game/whatever because that's what they've spent tons of time doing.

Yes Gawin should probably have approached the devs more directly than a post on the forums. But I still think even if he had, there should be nothing wrong in feeling a sense of entitlement. As both sides have invested something in this mod.

During the entire time Gawin was "working" for those looms, he was playing a game. A free game created by the devs. That's what we get out of the relationship. The least thing he could have done is politely enquired, without barging in and calling devs thieves like they deliberately stole his stuff to piss him off. He himself aknowledges the loom was hot, and somehow can't make the connection that maybe, just maybe, it wasn't a deliberate thing but part of the mass reversal of all trading related to the scammer accounts.
Also, this doesn't seem to be getting through since you're still talking about "business" models, cRPG is not a business. THERE ARE NO FRIGGIN CUSTOMERS. The devs have no incentive whatsoever to have more or less people playing. I don't think they give a damn either way. chadz himself said that he's making this game for himself, not anyone else. Even if only a few people played, chadz would probably keep coding. Anything at all in the database, anything on the website, anything on the forum, if chadz decided he wanted to destroy it all tommorow he could. HE HAS NO OBLIGATION, whatsoever, to provide us with this product, and no incentive beside a feeling of accomplishment and perhaps the feeling of having created something where lots of people have a lot of fun. I doubt he would pull the plug, even if he lost interest, since I'm sure others would want to mantain it anyways, and chadz isn't a massive dick (although he is a massive troll). But if he did, then what? Where do you go rage? Are you going to sue chadz for deleting his own information? XD
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Overdriven on September 26, 2011, 06:30:30 pm
(click to show/hide)

Hence why I included 'unless the devs are happy coding for the sake of it' and for themselves can be added. If they are, then fine they can do whatever the hell they want. But tbh I know if I were doing what they were doing, a lot of the satisfaction would come from seeing how the mod and the community grow together. The increase in popularity ect. But that's just me.

In order for a community to grow properly/for something to be truly successful, you need to act like it is a business. Thus if someone has been wronged by your mod team/company, you act as quickly as you can to right it. That way the community see's active involvement from the devs and appreciates more what they are doing rather than them just being considered trolls and not really actually being respected by the community. People respect them for coding the mod...but really they quite obviously don't respect the way they run things here. Otherwise there would be a lot less threads like this in every aspect of crpg.

But like I said, if the devs don't actually give a crap and are just coding because they want to for them. Then of course they can do what the hell they like and watch the community grow/die without it affecting them.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Oberyn on September 26, 2011, 06:34:05 pm
Hence why I included 'unless the devs are happy coding for the sake of it' and for themselves can be added. If they are, then fine they can do whatever the hell they want. But tbh I know if I were doing what they were doing, a lot of the satisfaction would come from seeing how the mod and the community grow together. The increase in popularity ect. But that's just me.

In order for a community to grow properly/for something to be truly successful, you need to act like it is a business. Thus if someone has been wronged by your mod team/company, you act as quickly as you can to right it. That way the community see's active involvement from the devs and appreciates more what they are doing rather than them just being considered trolls and not really actually being respected by the community.

But like I said, if the devs don't actually give a crap and are just coding because they want to for them. Then of course they can do what the hell they like and watch the community grow/die without it affecting them.

I've seen nothing to convince me that devs have threated this mod like a business, ever, yet the mod seems to have grown and been healthy for quite some time. I guess it works?
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Overdriven on September 26, 2011, 06:38:44 pm
I've seen nothing to convince me that devs have threated this mod like a business, ever, yet the mod seems to have grown and been healthy for quite some time. I guess it works?

It grows because they've done a good job coding and most people commend them for that. But the way they deal with the community leaves a lot to be desired. Obviously the fact it's an internet community (lots of idiot posts/threads) has something to do with that. But if it were known that the devs deal with things quickly, fairly and have a very active involvement in their community and not known as 'trolls'. Then the mod would grow even more.

But then if they are happy with things the way they are, then that's no problem either. It entirely depends on how they want to do things.

Anyway I'm off now!
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gnjus on September 26, 2011, 07:42:26 pm
....and then the marmot wrapped the chocolate.  :wink:

Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Teeth on September 26, 2011, 08:12:17 pm
....and then the marmot wrapped he chocolate.  :wink:
Well thats an expression I have to google

EDIT: Google has no idea what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: chadz on September 26, 2011, 11:13:59 pm
If I were the devs I'd jump at the chance to help someone I may have wronged. Regardless of how they approached me. As it was likely my fault in the first place.

Heh, that made me laugh. Not because I think it's silly, but because I would have said the same two years ago, as a member of a community. Fact is, things change. I actually would have way more to say on that matter, but I guess it's better not to, so I'll just do this:

the 101 guide to get support from the cRPG team:
step I) do not contact the following people directly:
a) chadz
b) cmp
why? because you need a hell of a lot of luck to hit the good minutes. It's not because I think I'm something better or I don't want to talk to you. I simply don't have the capacity to do it. Cmp, on the other hand, is just blatantly evil and a misanthrope, as far as I know. Either way, believe me, it's way faster if you go the right route of
step II) contact anyone else of the dev team,
because they will separate your story from bullcrap to "hey this guy could really need some help". and this helps me a lot. which means i can spend more time helping people (and eventually coding, too) and less time talking to people. sounds harsh, but it's true.
step III) chances are, the dev-member or admin you talked to forwarded it to me. chances are, I promised i'll do it - and forgot. So it can help, from time to time (do not read: all the time), to poke your contact every now and then, ask him about progress.
step IV) (not this case) do NOT even bother asking us to do stuff that is somehow gameplay changing. like "hey can you respec me". "hey can you switch my heirloom" stuff like that. Features are for everyone, or no one. If a feature doesn't exist, suggest it to be added. do NOT ask someone to just change stuff for yourself.
and last but not least: be friendly. we like talking to people who like talking to us. which means a friendly atmosphere. we don't like talking to people who don't like friendly talk either. Which means that friendly guys move forward in the todo list, not so friendly guys don't. Who would have thought.

as someone said, trying to be a bully helps when your McChicken has a brown leaf of salad in it, it won't get you far in this place though. Just human, sorry, can't help it.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Teeth on September 26, 2011, 11:16:01 pm
chadzRANT!
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Leshma on September 26, 2011, 11:16:58 pm
@Gawin

Life goes on...
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Leshma on September 26, 2011, 11:19:00 pm
Well thats an expression I have to google

EDIT: Google has no idea what you're talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0pN1PpfIag
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Teeth on September 26, 2011, 11:32:13 pm
And how did that become an expression and why does Gnjus apply it here? Gnjus is no frenchie right?
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 26, 2011, 11:39:22 pm
(click to show/hide)

 :|

You know me too well.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gawin on September 27, 2011, 01:46:52 am
Heh, that made me laugh. Not because I think it's silly, but because I would have said the same two years ago, as a member of a community. Fact is, things change. I actually would have way more to say on that matter, but I guess it's better not to, so I'll just do this:

the 101 guide to get support from the cRPG team:
step I) do not contact the following people directly:
a) chadz
b) cmp
why? because you need a hell of a lot of luck to hit the good minutes. It's not because I think I'm something better or I don't want to talk to you. I simply don't have the capacity to do it. Cmp, on the other hand, is just blatantly evil and a misanthrope, as far as I know. Either way, believe me, it's way faster if you go the right route of
step II) contact anyone else of the dev team,
because they will separate your story from bullcrap to "hey this guy could really need some help". and this helps me a lot. which means i can spend more time helping people (and eventually coding, too) and less time talking to people. sounds harsh, but it's true.
step III) chances are, the dev-member or admin you talked to forwarded it to me. chances are, I promised i'll do it - and forgot. So it can help, from time to time (do not read: all the time), to poke your contact every now and then, ask him about progress.
step IV) (not this case) do NOT even bother asking us to do stuff that is somehow gameplay changing. like "hey can you respec me". "hey can you switch my heirloom" stuff like that. Features are for everyone, or no one. If a feature doesn't exist, suggest it to be added. do NOT ask someone to just change stuff for yourself.
and last but not least: be friendly. we like talking to people who like talking to us. which means a friendly atmosphere. we don't like talking to people who don't like friendly talk either. Which means that friendly guys move forward in the todo list, not so friendly guys don't. Who would have thought.

as someone said, trying to be a bully helps when your McChicken has a brown leaf of salad in it, it won't get you far in this place though. Just human, sorry, can't help it.

(click to show/hide)
hey chadz sooooo i am not going to get my looms back? or is this just going to take more time?
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Overdriven on September 27, 2011, 02:07:37 am
(click to show/hide)

This should be stickied in a separate thread  :) Thanks for the reply though. It's always good to hear something proper from you and I entirely understand what you're saying.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Mustikki on September 27, 2011, 02:07:53 am
hey chadz sooooo i am not going to get my looms back? or is this just going to take more time?

Contact Espu/okin/fasader/shik/urist on irc, chadz propably alread forgot, he wrote in here...
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Leshma on September 27, 2011, 02:37:08 am
Contact Espu/okin/fasader/shik/urist on irc, chadz propably alread forgot, he wrote in here...

I believe that Meow once said to me that heirloom retrieval is chadz's business.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Overdriven on September 27, 2011, 02:38:59 am
I believe that Meow once said to me that heirloom retrieval is chadz's business.

Did you read chadz post?
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Leshma on September 27, 2011, 02:52:42 am
Did you read chadz post?

Yes and I asked few mentioned people myself about heirloom retrieval and they pointed to chadz.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 27, 2011, 06:08:12 am
So in a made up situation, if say you did a lot of trading on the market place, and one day you find out that chadz had taken all your items and gold or even deleted your account because a number of trades ago, unknown to you, a stolen item had passed your hands in an innocent seeming manner. You wouldn't be mad because it's acctually chadz's account right? You must have spent days if not months grinding gold and experience to get those heirlooms and things for chadz.

Of course I wouldn't be pleased, but it would not mean that I'd start a thread demanding stuff from the devs and act like an angry McDonalds customer. Oberyn made some very sensible posts. Ask the devs nicely, if you get what you asked, grand. If you don't, it certainly wasn't because you weren't enough of a prick to them while asking.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gawin on September 28, 2011, 04:18:25 am
BUMP BUMP BUMP! and new poll  :oops:
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Qilidj_Arslan on September 28, 2011, 05:34:32 am
Mighty chadz has spoken, your materialistic possessions have been cast into oblivion.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gawin on September 29, 2011, 02:03:09 am
bump again
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Castor on September 29, 2011, 02:09:56 am
awww, what vile villain would do such a thing to a cute little pika chu  :oops:
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 29, 2011, 02:21:27 am
So you chose to disregard what chadz said and instead made a stupid-ass poll. Good job. "Should I at least..."? Srsly.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 29, 2011, 02:27:26 am
Answer my fucking pm instead of trolling children, Xant.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Leshma on September 29, 2011, 02:31:10 am
You two calling someone a child :shock:

Bwahahahaha~
 
:lol:
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 29, 2011, 02:33:19 am
I wasn't aware I called anyone a child..
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Lysander on September 29, 2011, 03:53:14 pm
Free BUMP
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Gawin on September 30, 2011, 02:17:58 am
So you chose to disregard what chadz said and instead made a stupid-ass poll. Good job. "Should I at least..."? Srsly.
hey how about you take your ideas, and go take them to disney land with you?
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 30, 2011, 02:18:22 am
hey how about you take your ideas, and go take them to disney land with you?

Epic Win.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 30, 2011, 07:16:40 am
hey how about you take your ideas, and go take them to disney land with you?

How's being stupid working for you? Got your looms yet?
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Leesin on September 30, 2011, 07:50:55 am
Xant seems pretty obsessed with your loom situation.

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Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Kingtrisp on September 30, 2011, 08:14:13 am
hey how about you take your ideas, and go take them to disney land with you?

Epic win


How's being stupid working for you? Got your looms yet?

Defiantly mad he isnt at Disney right now


Obviously at some point somthing will be done on the loom situation you have gawin it just might take a long time.

Imagine if you will the people who deal with reimbursing heirlooms are actually ents

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And... it... takes... along... time... to... do... slash... say.... anything... in.... entish.....
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 30, 2011, 09:08:10 am
Xant seems pretty obsessed with your loom situation.

Got that right.

Quote
Conan is a retard

LOL EPIC WIN
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Kingtrisp on September 30, 2011, 05:14:41 pm
LOL EPIC WIN

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You mad you aint there?

 I also like how u quoted nothing lols...


Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 30, 2011, 05:20:42 pm
You mad you're a retard?
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Siiem on September 30, 2011, 05:22:00 pm
I've never been to disney land :(
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 30, 2011, 05:37:59 pm
Conan is one of those retards that try to sound smart and intellectual but manage to have it backfire on themselves.

Accept your intellectually inferior caste as the average internet goon that you are.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Siiem on September 30, 2011, 05:39:42 pm
Conan is one of those retards that try to sound smart and intellectual but manages to have it backfire on themselves.

Accept your intellectually inferior caste as the average internet goon that you are.

They all seem to join the risen as well, don't believe my hypothesis? They recently got vicious666.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 30, 2011, 05:42:40 pm
I'm not a generalist, believe it or not.

They're not really all like that, it's just that the most loud ones are the most perceived too. Vicious, Melas, RetarDarian etc.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 30, 2011, 05:46:17 pm
What I find interesting is that ToD and RetardConan seem to consider the Disneyland reference some kind of an epic burn.

Short lesson on burns, epic or otherwise, guys.

Firstly and most importantly, it has to be somehow related to the person you're trying to burn, otherwise it makes no sense. If it is completely random, and can't be considered offensive no matter what angle you look at it, then it's not a burn at all. Example: If I lived in Paris, then a reference to Disney Land would be somehow (it'd still be rather lame&tame) burnish. But seeing as I don't, and I've not expressed my love for Disney movies.. well, you piece it together.

That's your lesson for today kids, we'll continue some other time.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 30, 2011, 05:51:13 pm
Xant missed the point on why I thought it was funny, good job. I never though it was an epic burn.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 30, 2011, 05:52:06 pm
Xant missed the point on why I thought it was funny, good job. I never though it was an epic burn.

Do elaborate then, help me see the funny!
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 30, 2011, 05:55:28 pm
Do elaborate then, help me see the funny!

According to Jambi I'm a retarded hamburger flipper, I doubt if I explain it to you that we would see eye to eye. Rest assured though, it had nothing to do with you, just the statement itself.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 30, 2011, 05:57:42 pm
According to Jambi I'm a retarded hamburger flipper, I doubt if I explain it to you that we would see eye to eye. Rest assured though, it had nothing to do with you, just the statement itself.

Believe it or not, Jambi is not my split personality, so his opinion doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 30, 2011, 06:01:22 pm
I ... I don't believe you.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 30, 2011, 06:04:48 pm
Frankly, I am a bit surprised how you can compare the two even.

Jambi can be nice, but how shall I put it... He isn't as refined in his wording as Xant, and neither does he usually have valid opinions. But that's all subjective, so don't get me wrong. And Jambi if you read this, don't take it the wrong way. When I say "more refined in his wording" I mean better at trolling.

Xant is just... Xant.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Stabby_Dave on September 30, 2011, 06:07:18 pm
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Grow up guys.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 30, 2011, 06:08:27 pm
Frankly, I am a bit surprised how you can compare the two even.

Simple.
I talk to Xant on the internet.
I talk to Jambi on the internet.

Seems pretty comparable to me when you insert enough logic fallacies.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Siiem on September 30, 2011, 06:10:03 pm
Simple.
I talk to Xant on the internet.
I talk to Jambi on the internet.

Seems pretty comparable to me when you insert enough logic fallacies.

That, is by all accounts impossible.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 30, 2011, 06:11:07 pm
Simple.
I talk to Xant on the internet.
I talk to Jambi on the internet.

Seems pretty comparable to me when you insert enough logic fallacies.

The problem is, you're not supposed to have to insert logic fallacies. That's why they are called fallacies, it implies something is incorrect.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 30, 2011, 06:14:08 pm
I don't understand...
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 30, 2011, 06:14:33 pm
I don't understand...

Sign'd.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 30, 2011, 06:16:45 pm
There is a Chinese saying that says the first step on the path to wisdom is to admit that one does not understand...

Unfortunately I do not seem to be progressing to the next step.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 30, 2011, 06:18:38 pm
I believe the next step is self-assessment, where you analyze yourself and correct flaws. Start by killing yourself. :lol:
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 30, 2011, 06:25:26 pm
I believe the next step is self-assessment, where you analyze yourself and correct flaws. Start by killing yourself. :lol:
:shock:

Not ready for wisdom just yet... I think I will get back to that later... Much, much later...


Killing myself sounds rather unpleasant.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 30, 2011, 06:26:40 pm
You can't always be comfortable, you know. I'm afraid you have no choice.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 30, 2011, 06:28:09 pm
Oh shucks...  :cry:
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Kingtrisp on September 30, 2011, 06:35:53 pm
...... So xant got mad he isnt at disney and then bjord also took offence ... guess he has not been either....


anyway brb

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Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 30, 2011, 07:16:57 pm
(click to show/hide)

What a joke.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Xant on September 30, 2011, 07:20:43 pm
LOL OMG IT'S DISNEYLAND:D
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 30, 2011, 07:21:24 pm
WHAT!?

WHERE!? OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD!
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Siiem on September 30, 2011, 07:32:18 pm
I guess since you and Xant have never been to disney land you're missing out on one of the finer things in life... Is what Conan is trying to say. Burn, derp.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Kingtrisp on September 30, 2011, 07:32:32 pm
Why is this making you mad?

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Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Siiem on September 30, 2011, 07:33:44 pm
Why is this making you mad?

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Because, Minnie is such a fkn upskirt teaser, you know you will never get to hit that... fkn bitchy cocktease.
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Bjord on September 30, 2011, 07:35:20 pm
We're mad? :D

I beg to differ, we're gay.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Kingtrisp on September 30, 2011, 07:44:44 pm
Your goofy!!

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Title: Re: Hey chadz is this how you fix things?
Post by: Siiem on September 30, 2011, 07:46:57 pm
Goofy is a likable guy... he might make some mistakes and choose the wrong decisions and often out of downright clumsiness. But he does have more personality in his silly hat than your entire being.