cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Digglez on September 24, 2011, 09:37:17 am
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Banner balance seems very weak on the official servers. Instead of the occasional odd man out, more than half the matches 1/3 - 1/2 my clan is put on opposite team. This really makes it a pain when wanting to play as a clan.
What is the state of BB on the servers and can it be 'increased' (thought I remember reading there are varying levels of it)
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Wrong forum buddy
Also banner balance is always set to on
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Wrong forum buddy
Also banner balance is always set to on
Tydeus did turn banner balance off for a few maps yesterday, maybe he was playing when it was off.
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Bannerbalance is not working correctly for the last month or so, as about a third of my clan is usually on the other team. Not much we can do though.
Moved to General Talk.
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I noticed Banner Balance working perfectly after the steam sale, what with ATS/Chaos/DL/LL all being on one team, and the other team having 4-5 brand new LLJK players and the rest pretty obviously peasants from the steam sale. It's not like it didn't turn into a horrific slaughter round after round or anything
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Can any devs shed light on this please?
I thought I remembered seeing someone post about EU servers half of them being BB on and Half off, is this the case for NA official servers as well?
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Can any devs shed light on this please?
I thought I remembered seeing someone post about EU servers half of them being BB on and Half off, is this the case for NA official servers as well?
I assure you that it is on this very moment. It is the very first thing I check when I log in after checking to make sure it takes 5 wins for a round.
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Haven't seen a problem with banner balance. The thing is, it's not supposed to be perfect 100% of the time, otherwise stacking becomes an enormous issue. I like it as it is right now, with everyone in the FCC on one team and Cyranule on the other one. See? Balance.
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I noticed Banner Balance working perfectly after the steam sale, what with ATS/Chaos/DL/LL all being on one team, and the other team having 4-5 brand new LLJK players and the rest pretty obviously peasants from the steam sale.
Working as intended, the way it should always be.
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I noticed Banner Balance working perfectly after the steam sale, what with ATS/Chaos/DL/LL all being on one team, and the other team having 4-5 brand new LLJK players and the rest pretty obviously peasants from the steam sale. It's not like it didn't turn into a horrific slaughter round after round or anything
That... that was a good day. I made 15k gold that day.
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Been feeling this too -- getting tossed onto another team after the first round even though there are only like 4 of us out of 80 using the same banner. That was just like an hour ago on NA_CRPG_2. Talking round 2+ here, too.
I guess the question is more for the devs: "is banner balance still working properly? Can someone check?" I understand that in some cases it must be balancing on weight of gear more than banners but sometimes we end up separated and it doesn't seem to make sense as to why.
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bump this is getting annoying. it either doesnt do a good enough job of putting banners together or it stacks all the clans together vs pug team
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That too.
Ideally, "banner balance" should alternate banners on teams, especially for the larger groups.
For example...
8 people are using banner #1
It puts all of them on Team A.
5 people are using banner #2
It puts all of them on Team B.
4 people are using banner #3.
Team A is still overweighted compared to team B, so these people all go to team B.
(etc)
So basically sort players by banner type, in order of which banner has the most numbers, then use weight to fill out the teams, but guaranteeing that the two biggest banners have to go head to head.
Currently it will sometimes put all the biggest banners on the same team. So you end up with a team that has 8 DL, 5 NH and 4 CHAOS all on the same team while team B consists entirely of random unclanned people. It should have been 8 DL vs 5 NH and 4 CHAOS or something like that, so the larger banner groups don't end up all on the same team.
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That too.
Ideally, "banner balance" should alternate banners on teams, especially for the larger groups.
For example...
8 people are using banner #1
It puts all of them on Team A.
5 people are using banner #2
It puts all of them on Team B.
4 people are using banner #3.
Team A is still overweighted compared to team B, so these people all go to team B.
(etc)
So basically sort players by banner type, in order of which banner has the most numbers, then use weight to fill out the teams, but guaranteeing that the two biggest banners have to go head to head.
Currently it will sometimes put all the biggest banners on the same team. So you end up with a team that has 8 DL, 5 NH and 4 CHAOS all on the same team while team B consists entirely of random unclanned people. It should have been 8 DL vs 5 NH and 4 CHAOS or something like that, so the larger banner groups don't end up all on the same team.
+100
Banner balance is fail and should be removed until a proper auto balance get worked on
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and should be removed until a proper auto balance get worked on
No.
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Sigh so much fail.
The balancer actually has 2 balancers working when banner balance is on.(I've Heard this from devs but can't quote the source, sorry)
What it does is you are balanced FIRST by you KDR that you see on the site below your name. Then it attempts to put all banners on the same team provided it doesn't break the KDR balancer.
Thus if you play siege 100% and never battle, your KDR is 0:0. If you play battle all the time you have a dynamic kdr(as every map it is changed, though generally not much). THis means that when it does the siege KDR balancer, you get swapped because of that.
(Note: Don't know if things have changed, but this is how it worked before)
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Then I guess starting a month or so ago, the KDRs of clans have significantly altered for I am noticing them being split up in larger chunks then normal. Before it was just one or two, but now it seems like a third or more is always on the other side.
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Im not against Balance so to speak im against stupid and arbitrary balance , if i dont get spec after after the first round , im 95% against clans ALL THE TIME , because of my high KDR , you get the chance to play with 2-3 more of your clan mates ,
you think i enjoy fighting a bunch of people that has TS and full of heirlooms and archers\cav while im stuck with the pubbies getting slaughtered and rounds ending up 5-0 ( battle ) or 3-0 (siege attacker)
That is why the banner balance has to be removed until its get reworked
Banner balance should be renamed : Op balance
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Solution: use their banner XD
I feel ya though, this seems to happen a lot. Isn't actual ingame KD/R taken into account as well? I see people getting switched a lot when they're on top of the scoreboard.
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Solution: use their banner XD
I feel ya though, this seems to happen a lot. Isn't actual ingame KD/R taken into account as well? I see people getting switched a lot when they're on top of the scoreboard.
using their banner is just a workaround , you like putting the dust below the carpet ? i sure dont
im most of the time on top of the board and i only get switched when someone on the other team with decent kdr goes spec or leave game
(after first round balance that is)
Edit : Oberyn, that is one sexy avatar!
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Solution: use their banner XD
I feel ya though, this seems to happen a lot. Isn't actual ingame KD/R taken into account as well? I see people getting switched a lot when they're on top of the scoreboard.
Rarely in battle. Once the Initial First round is done, small changes like that are very rare.
Siege on the other hand, yes it WILL throw you off.
(IE: Occitan was playing in full plate etc and just STOMPING in the Kills department. Then finally the game said ok you guys good, have fun and put all occitan and some other vs a team that outnumbered them by close to 15 players, with DL on that Team. Occitan lost, pretty damn quick).
Also People aren't retiring, so the people who don't retire keep their KD's while those who Retire(or respec) get them reset back to 0. So I have propensity to be swapped as I hate the lvl 31+ players and always retire while several clan mates are going for their lvl 35 builds.
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We are all here for the amusement of the almighty Autobalance.
Who are we to question its judgement? We must trust in its ultimate benevolence, or at least in its sense of humour, for it is not the place of our feeble minds to discern its intent. The Autobalance works in mysterious ways.
I implore you all to appease our seemingly fickle, but infinitely wise, Autobalance, by sacrificing peasants and stray horses. This thread serves only to anger its holy Balanceness... so guard well against its wrath...
"Teams are not fair enough to justify a multiplier."
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Im not against Balance so to speak im against stupid and arbitrary balance , if i dont get spec after after the first round , im 95% against clans ALL THE TIME , because of my high KDR , you get the chance to play with 2-3 more of your clan mates ,
you think i enjoy fighting a bunch of people that has TS and full of heirlooms and archers\cav while im stuck with the pubbies getting slaughtered and rounds ending up 5-0 ( battle ) or 3-0 (siege attacker)
That is why the banner balance has to be removed until its get reworked
Banner balance should be renamed : Op balance
get a clan. Banner balance is especially key for a game mode like siege that requires organization & teamwork. Devs should not cater to pugs in a game & mode thats clearly teamwork based.
You're welcome to hop into our Vent since you wear Huscarl helm and mail armor. And always fighting the uphill battles is probably what keeps you in tip top shape skill wise.
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get a clan. Banner balance is especially key for a game mode like siege that requires organization & teamwork. Devs should not cater to pugs in a game & mode thats clearly teamwork based.
You're welcome to hop into our Vent since you wear Huscarl helm and mail armor. And always fighting the uphill battles is probably what keeps you in tip top shape skill wise.
Digglez the public mode doesnt evolve around clans , what you said make perfect sense for Strategus tho
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Digglez the public mode doesnt evolve around clans , what you said make perfect sense for Strategus tho
Yes, yes it does. Any game mode that rewards a team based on its performance and requires 20+ ppl per team, revolves around clans.
If you dont want to play with a team or clan, go back to battle or DM/duel.
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I think you assume that i dont want to play with a team, we always say this at my work : dont assume you make a ASS of U and ME
In Siege i play as a team , but you cant do shit with pubbies when clans have TS and the armor weapons heirlooms advantage
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thats what you get for being good.
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I think you assume that i dont want to play with a team, we always say this at my work : dont assume you make a ASS of U and ME
In Siege i play as a team , but you cant do shit with pubbies when clans have TS and the armor weapons heirlooms advantage
Pubs have heirlooms(you yourself are a pub).
But the TS, which auto balance can't take into effect, is the big difference between clans and pubs. Instant Communiction/ghosting/derision, blah where as pubs have to use in game.
(Oh that phrase is like EVERYWHERE. BTW balb, what's you KDR that the game shows underneath your character page. Mine is right now 5:16 cause i just retired.)
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Pubs have heirlooms(you yourself are a pub).
But the TS, which auto balance can't take into effect, is the big difference between clans and pubs. Instant Communiction/ghosting/derision, blah where as pubs have to use in game.
(Oh that phrase is like EVERYWHERE. BTW balb, what's you KDR that the game shows underneath your character page. Mine is right now 5:16 cause i just retired.)
Anders we all knows that crpg have tons more dedicated players in clans than public , hence my comment about looms and massive players type : like cav or tons of range ,
Cant access my char page at my work but im close to 4:1 kd as far as i remember :)
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The balancer actually has 2 balancers working when banner balance is on.(I've Heard this from devs but can't quote the source, sorry)
What it does is you are balanced FIRST by you KDR that you see on the site below your name. Then it attempts to put all banners on the same team provided it doesn't break the KDR balancer.
That would explain a lot actually. Now I have performance anxiety :shock:
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Anders we all knows that crpg have tons more dedicated players in clans than public , hence my comment about looms and massive players type : like cav or tons of range ,
Cant access my char page at my work but im close to 4:1 kd as far as i remember :)
Suck more so that you get auto balanced onto the teams that win.
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it sends shitties over to the losing team to pad the numbers earlier in the round so that doesn't work either
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it sends shitties over to the losing team to pad the numbers earlier in the round so that doesn't work either
exactly , quality has always been better than quantity IMO (beside the rare cases where balance hand down some sweet justice)
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Um balb, you have 2 accounts?.......
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Um balb, you have 2 accounts?.......
yeah i do , i forgot to stop using orginal one at work :\ , my bad
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yeah i do , i forgot to stop using orginal one at work :\ , my bad
That's....uh punishable..... you should, uh delete the old one or something.
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Yes, yes it does. Any game mode that rewards a team based on its performance and requires 20+ ppl per team, revolves around clans teams.
If you dont want to play with a team or clan, go back to battle or DM/duel.
Fixed that for ya.
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That would explain a lot actually. Now I have performance anxiety :shock:
Lol, so basically we should leave people maimed, mangled and mortally wounded for others to finish off heh
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We are all here for the amusement of the almighty Autobalance.
Who are we to question its judgement? We must trust in its ultimate benevolence, or at least in its sense of humour, for it is not the place of our feeble minds to discern its intent. The Autobalance works in mysterious ways.
I implore you all to appease our seemingly fickle, but infinitely wise, Autobalance, by sacrificing peasants and stray horses. This thread serves only to anger its holy Balanceness... so guard well against its wrath...
"Teams are not fair enough to justify a multiplier."
So say we all.
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What it does is you are balanced FIRST by you KDR that you see on the site below your name. Then it attempts to put all banners on the same team provided it doesn't break the KDR balancer.
I don't think KDR should be the priority. Pretty frequently, that's what screws it up.
Common team balance --
Team A:
Loomcrutch McSpamswinger, 30-5
Solodouche deTincan, 28-5
...and a bunch of random noobs averaging 2 kills and 5 deaths.
Team B:
A far more organized group of people with fewer major statwhores.
The problem is that Loomcrutch and his buddy, Solodouche, always break away from the pack right off and go different directions, flanking and generally killing the bottom rung of the other team. Their KDR looks impressive but their killing sprees only last until they run into a group of 5 from the Teamplayer Clan, and probably get shot in the face from 30 meters by a crossbow. Essentially their statwhoring looks impressive, but has little real impact on the battle, and is preventing Team A from getting any actual team players who would help the team actually win.
In summary, balancing by KDR should not be the priority, and I suspect it often does more harm than good. It should be *a* factor but not the main one.
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It's the only factor that the game can record easily. Equipment can change round to round, but banner and KDR don't.
If you can think of a better way please tell them! I'm SURE they'd like to hear it.
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It's the only factor that the game can record easily. Equipment can change round to round, but banner and KDR don't.
If you can think of a better way please tell them! I'm SURE they'd like to hear it.
Round win/loss%. If they can keep track of rounds you win and lose this would be the best indicator of contribution to your team.
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Round win/loss%. If they can keep track of rounds you win and lose this would be the best indicator of contribution to your team.
Good idea.
Can The stats be tracked or recorded easily? If so, then attempt to do it.
Otherwise, it's a novel concept.
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I think you assume that i dont want to play with a team, we always say this at my work : dont assume you make a ASS of U and ME
In Siege i play as a team , but you cant do shit with pubbies when clans have TS and the armor weapons heirlooms advantage
You should just join DL. We can always use more shielders :D
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Nothing is more fun than 5 Chaos guys balanced against 15 pubbies :twisted:
Also: STOP USING OUR BANNER IF YOU'RE NOT IN CHAOS ! It makes me a sad panda.
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Also: STOP USING OUR BANNER IF YOU'RE NOT IN CHAOS ! It makes me a sad panda.
Huh, you know how many use OUR banner? ugh!
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Huh, you know how many use OUR banner? ugh!
That reminds me... we should scrim :wink:
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That reminds me... we should scrim :wink:
Join our TS and try to set it Up or PM kryser. Though TS is better option.
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You should just join DL. We can always use more shielders :D
im not a shielder im a human missile hurling myself on my enemies ! :D
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Join our TS and try to set it Up or PM kryser. Though TS is better option.
Might do just that. I bet it would be an interesting battle :D
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Am I wrong in thinking that banner balance is completely dumb and makes it possible for entire clans (who are potentially a bunch of pros) to completely destroy the other team all the time, leading to noobs being left out all the time?
Or doesn't it work that way?
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Am I wrong in thinking that banner balance is completely dumb and makes it possible for entire clans (who are potentially a bunch of pros) to completely destroy the other team all the time, leading to noobs being left out all the time?
Or doesn't it work that way?
As I said in my example, if banner balance is on and working properly, it can happen that 5 clan "pro's" with the same banner are lined up against 15 players with different banners.
Trust me, that makes it hard and at the same time rewarding for both sides, in my opinion. Bringing down "pro's" with some teamwork is as much fun as for the pro's to being challenged by having to maintain a 3:1 KDR in order to win.
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That reminds me... we should scrim :wink:
Awww shit. Lets do thisss
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Am I wrong in thinking that banner balance is completely dumb and makes it possible for entire clans (who are potentially a bunch of pros) to completely destroy the other team all the time, leading to noobs being left out all the time?
Or doesn't it work that way?
Allowing clans to work together is the whole point of it.
The only time it gets really messed up is when there are two big clans on, with different banners, and banner balance decides to put them both on the same team against a bunch of scrubs. If banner balance would always try to separate the biggest banner groups -- force them to fight each other -- then it would work a lot better.
Basically sort by banner, put the two biggest banners on opposite teams, then fill in the rest from there.
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As I said in my example, if banner balance is on and working properly, it can happen that 5 clan "pro's" with the same banner are lined up against 15 players with different banners.
Trust me, that makes it hard and at the same time rewarding for both sides, in my opinion. Bringing down "pro's" with some teamwork is as much fun as for the pro's to being challenged by having to maintain a 3:1 KDR in order to win.
i maintain close to a 4:1 kdr and having to face clans all the time , i still think its BS and unfair to face clans most of the time , with witchcraft (TS) and quality over quality (dedicated players with skills and looms to go with) you get to win far more often than you lose
When i was playing crpg back then the shuffle without banner balance gave a nice random touch and matches didnt end up all the time 3-0 5-0 4-1 etc...
The only exception is i was always VS Fedor and his morning star of crushdeath lol
as you guys love to say : i could deal with it , but constant fighting vs clans is no longer fun to me when im the only guy that kills people on the other side ,
I gonna end up switching my banner and mess up with your abilities to play with your friends :p
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If I'm up against 15 archers and 10 cavs again, while my team is infantry, something is wrong.