cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: verinen on January 28, 2011, 10:01:10 pm

Title: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: verinen on January 28, 2011, 10:01:10 pm
How does it look after patch? What weight of armor starts reduce wpf?
Title: Re: weight-wpf
Post by: cutsomecheesewithmybow on January 31, 2011, 04:50:10 pm
Negligible up to weight 15 armor set @ 150 proficience from my experience but exists.
Title: Re: weight-wpf
Post by: GaenaralHONK on January 31, 2011, 07:22:35 pm
Negligible up to weight 15 armor set @ 150 proficience from my experience but exists.

what the hell did you want to say?
Title: Re: weight-wpf
Post by: Vexus on February 01, 2011, 03:04:26 am
The penalty is a % reduction in wpf of your total weight now but no idea on how much was never explained.
Title: Re: weight-wpf
Post by: verinen on May 29, 2011, 04:20:41 pm
Any explanations, devs?
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on May 29, 2011, 07:18:12 pm
well as i recall, weight penalty to profiency is:

body armor: 1 weight point = 1 WPF
legs armor: 1 weight point = 1 WPF
hands armor: 1 weight point = 2 WPF
head armor: 1 weight point = 3 WPF

if total armor weight is under 6 points, no penalty at all (example using only a studded leather 5 weight armor will not give you any penalty to wpf. but adding 2 weight points will reduce your wpf by 7 as you have 7 weight points on you.)

anyway the cRPG builder program had a wpf penalty calc inside... but was a program made by poul several months (and patches) ago.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Polobow on May 29, 2011, 07:27:26 pm
Wait... phazh said that there is no WPF reducement on 7 weight.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Patricia on June 03, 2011, 02:13:46 am
Read Gafferjack's thread you dickfuckers.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: IG_Saint on June 03, 2011, 02:27:53 am
Read Gafferjack's thread you dickfuckers.

I bet you haven't been pleasant to be around a single day in your life. You are partially right though. This: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2722.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2722.0.html) should answer most of the OPs questions. The only question is what the latest patches changed exactly.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Rhaelys on June 03, 2011, 04:18:12 am
Roughly speaking, you can approximate WPF penalties from armor weight by doing the following:

Add: Body Weight + Foot Weight + Hand Weight x 2 + Head Weight x 3

Subtract 7 from this number.

The resulting number is the percentage decrease from your WPF. So if your resulting number was 6, your proficiencies would be 94% of what they are listed as.

I have calculated the weapon proficiency reduction due to armor weight for crossbows using the data provided by Gafferjack.


armor weight modified proficiency = base proficiency * (1 - 0.01 * effective armor weight)

and

effective armor weight = 3*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 2*hand armor weight - 7


As with the previous version, I would assume that effective armor weight values less than 0 would count as 0. The blue dots on the plot below are Gafferjack's data points and the black line shows the calculated values using the equations above.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Momo on June 07, 2011, 03:12:30 pm
Wait... phazh said that there is no WPF reducement on 7 weight.

Is it 6 or 7 now? Oh and is it true XD? It would be cool.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Tzar on June 07, 2011, 06:16:00 pm
its 7.7
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Momo on June 07, 2011, 06:28:43 pm
its 7.7

Thanks.

Another question if somebody knows. What affects running speed (the nerf part)? I mean, it has a different formula of reducing your speed by weight or is it combined with the wpf nerf at the same time. For example, you have 20 weight so your wpf will be reduced and your running speed is reduced too. Or if you didn't reach the wpf reducing weight, your speed will be the same even with 7 weight? Or, you didn't reach the wpf reducing weight (so no -wpf), but your run speed will be reduced a little. (maybe it's not noticeable)
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Tzar on June 07, 2011, 06:34:42 pm
I dont think walt made a test about the effect on weight and running speed i got no clue but you can clearly feel the diffrence from running around naked and running while in mail or plate.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Glyph on June 07, 2011, 08:01:35 pm
Roughly speaking, you can approximate WPF penalties from armor weight by doing the following:

Add: Body Weight + Foot Weight + Hand Weight x 2 + Head Weight x 3

Subtract 7 from this number.

The resulting number is the percentage decrease from your WPF. So if your resulting number was 6, your proficiencies would be 94% of what they are listed as.
no, if your total weight is under 7.7 you won't get any penalty.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Rhaelys on June 07, 2011, 08:12:01 pm
no, if your total weight is under 7.7 you won't get any penalty.

Good job ignoring my quoting of WaltF4.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Glyph on June 07, 2011, 08:18:53 pm
Good job ignoring my quoting of WaltF4.
what i said is true, that only counts if your armor is above 7.7(and he changed it, not in the original post but later on), you can ask him yourself
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: WaltF4 on June 07, 2011, 09:24:55 pm
Calm down everybody.

The subtractive constant in the effective weight equation is actually 7 plus or minus 2. A more exact number can not be determined currently because of the proficiency rounding and the resulting quantization error. However, it does not particularly matter as 1 or 2 weight will never have a significant (or likely even a measurable) change in the performance of your character. Likewise, the slope of the fitting is an approximation. I ended up using a slope value of 0.01 since it gives a reasonable approximation, it is an easy value to remember and calculate with, and it gives a realistic impression of the sort of precision we actually have.



I dont think walt made a test about the effect on weight and running speed i got no clue but you can clearly feel the diffrence from running around naked and running while in mail or plate.
I have preformed those test and made a thread (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3278.0.html) about it. The information in that thread seems to still be accurate following the most resent patches.



Another question if somebody knows. What affects running speed (the nerf part)? I mean, it has a different formula of reducing your speed by weight or is it combined with the wpf nerf at the same time. For example, you have 20 weight so your wpf will be reduced and your running speed is reduced too. Or if you didn't reach the wpf reducing weight, your speed will be the same even with 7 weight? Or, you didn't reach the wpf reducing weight (so no -wpf), but your run speed will be reduced a little. (maybe it's not noticeable)
Running speed is controlled by agility, athletics, total carried weight, and the length and weight of the weapon you are holding. All carried weight acts as a single total weight with all armor, weapons, shields, ammunitions, ladders, etc. being summed together. Holding or wearing a single shield only reduces running speed by adding the weight of the shield to your total weight. Holding one shield while wearing another shield results in an additional large penalty to running speed beyond the weight of the shields.

The running speed reduction due to weight appears to be a monotonic and continuous function of total carried weight. As such, any additional weight will slow you down and there are no critical weights to minimax around.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Momo on June 07, 2011, 09:38:15 pm
Calm down everybody.

The subtractive constant in the effective weight equation is actually 7 plus or minus 2. A more exact number can not be determined currently because of the proficiency rounding and the resulting quantization error. However, it does not particularly matter as 1 or 2 weight will never have a significant (or likely even a measurable) change in the performance of your character. Likewise, the slope of the fitting is an approximation. I ended up using a slope value of 0.01 since it gives a reasonable approximation, it is an easy value to remember and calculate with, and it gives a realistic impression of the sort of precision we actually have.


I have preformed those test and made a thread (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3278.0.html) about it. The information in that thread seems to still be accurate following the most resent patches.


Running speed is controlled by agility, athletics, total carried weight, and the length and weight of the weapon you are holding. All carried weight acts as a single total weight with all armor, weapons, shields, ammunitions, ladders, etc. being summed together. Holding or wearing a single shield only reduces running speed by adding the weight of the shield to your total weight. Holding one shield while wearing another shield results in an additional large penalty to running speed beyond the weight of the shields.

The running speed reduction due to weight appears to be a monotonic and continuous function of total carried weight. As such, any additional weight will slow you down and there are no critical weights to minimax around.

Thank you, I will read it :).

Edit: Ok, I found my answer :), so more weight is slower runspeed (on very small weights it's pretty hard to notice the difference).
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Dom.Miguel on June 08, 2011, 11:22:35 pm
...Important Stuf...

Give this man a cigar! (or lots of them since he deserves it)
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Seawied on June 09, 2011, 01:18:28 am
Give this man a cigar! (or lots of them since he deserves it)

Stop trying to give Walt lung cancer! I'm on to your scheme Miguel!


 :lol:
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Tzar on June 09, 2011, 12:05:56 pm
So its 7-7 or just 7  :?:  :lol:
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: firmitas on June 17, 2011, 07:15:33 am
Hey WaltF4 love your posts.

One question: are you saying that there is no attack speed penalty wearing a shield? Does that mean that a player will attack at equal interval all things being equal whether you use a 10 pound board shield, and a 2.5 buckler? 
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Vibe on June 17, 2011, 08:42:47 am
I think shield SPEED is what matters here, not shield weight.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Team_Jacob on June 17, 2011, 08:50:05 am
I think shield SPEED is what matters here, not shield weight.

I thought shield speed was how fast you could attack back after blocking.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Glyph on June 17, 2011, 01:20:34 pm
I thought shield speed was how fast you could attack back after blocking.
a shield doesn't slower your attack at all, the speed rating on a shield is just for how fast you can get it in defence stance again
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Vibe on June 17, 2011, 01:38:59 pm
Either way, I doubt shield weight matters, which was the original question.
Shield speed is how fast you get it up and down from defensive stance - indirectly affecting your melee swing "speed" or more appropriate - delay.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Peasant_Woman on June 17, 2011, 01:42:05 pm
The 'begin attack' animation overides the 'drop shield' animation. So it doesnt matter if you use a heavy board shield or a buckler, you will still get the same no. of swings per minute. All it affects is how fast you can put your shield up after swinging, so only if you feint alot will it slow you down noticably as I understand it.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: Elerion on June 17, 2011, 01:52:31 pm
One question: are you saying that there is no attack speed penalty wearing a shield? Does that mean that a player will attack at equal interval all things being equal whether you use a 10 pound board shield, and a 2.5 buckler?
This is correct. Armor weight is the only weight that affects attack speed.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: firmitas on June 18, 2011, 02:57:20 am
I thought shield speed was how fast you could attack back after blocking.

No shield speed is how fast you can place your shield in defensive position.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: firmitas on June 18, 2011, 03:00:09 am
Either way, I doubt shield weight matters, which was the original question.
Shield speed is how fast you get it up and down from defensive stance - indirectly affecting your melee swing "speed" or more appropriate - delay.


No. only getting it up does the shield affect swing--at least according to WaltF4. Because given that he says that a one hander swings just as fast with or without a shield, then shield speed and weight does not matter.

I find this possible, but it seams to me that to confirm this our beloved WALTF4 should do some experiments with different shield weight and speeds.
Title: Re: weight and wpf penalty
Post by: firmitas on June 18, 2011, 03:02:03 am
The 'begin attack' animation overides the 'drop shield' animation. So it doesnt matter if you use a heavy board shield or a buckler, you will still get the same no. of swings per minute. All it affects is how fast you can put your shield up after swinging, so only if you feint alot will it slow you down noticably as I understand it.

Great answer. My only question is if it has been tested.