cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 26, 2011, 09:31:17 pm

Title: A new child board please (vote in the poll!)
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 26, 2011, 09:31:17 pm
Hello moderators of these wonderful forums.

I'm requesting a new child board called 'Existentialist Dilemmas and Gaming'. I would like to use it to discuss existential dilemmas (also existential dread, existential confusions, and existential absurdity/and or bemusement), and how those aforementioned topics relate to gaming (by which I mean playing games, an example of which is cRPG).

This sort of discussion doesn't belong in the General Off Topic thread (it's too specific), nor does it belong in the spam section (it isn't spam, it's very serious), and it doesn't belong in the Historical Discussion area.

I feel that many of the players of cRPG will have something valuable to contribute to this topic. In fact, I think that it would be so popular that it needs it's own separate section.

Thanks in advance!

P.S: If this isn't possible, there is a good chance that I will either send threatening PMs (to randomly selected users, three per day) or go on a meaningless posting spree.

   
Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: Thomek on January 27, 2011, 01:19:14 am
+1
Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 27, 2011, 01:49:20 am
In addition, I think it's unfair that people who like history get their own special section, while the (literally) thousands of players who want to discuss existentialism (and gaming) don't get anywhere to do it.

Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 28, 2011, 09:23:34 am
Bump.

I tried sending threatening PMs but I accidentally chose three very angry people, and their replies were disheartening/sickening/scary. Now I'm put off of the whole PM idea. So:

Post spam incoming unless this happens! And if that doesn't work I'll sue based on violation of people's human rights - specifically the right to have access to a forum that discusses existentialism (and gaming).
Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: Yenward on January 28, 2011, 10:12:24 am
You have my support in this. Child board now, pwease!
Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: Alex_C on January 28, 2011, 07:23:10 pm
Existentialism is a Humanism.
Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 28, 2011, 08:30:37 pm
Existentialism is a Humanism.

No it isn't. Elephants cry at bones!

Also, don't spam in my thread. It's rude. I've already reported you to a moderator.
Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: Alex_C on January 28, 2011, 08:49:22 pm
Elephants cry at bones!

Bah! No they don't, you're just putting anthropic characteristics on them 'cos you're sad and lonely.
Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 28, 2011, 08:57:58 pm
Bah! No they don't, you're just putting anthropic characteristics on them 'cos you're sad and lonely.

Grief is universal, this is obvious. Don't get all Nagel.

So if we take your wild accusations to another stage - does a lion (for example) misinterpret human activities with it's own species bias? HUH?
Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: Alex_C on January 28, 2011, 09:01:46 pm
Grief is universal, this is obvious. Don't get all Nagel.

So if we take your wild accusations to another stage - does a lion (for example) misinterpret human activities with it's own species bias? HUH?

Possessive apostrophes are your friends.

And yes, I'd imagine that a lion believes that humans are competition for the deer or whatever that it wants to eat etc.

Grief is clearly not universal, does a stone feel sad when its partner is erased? Of course not.
Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 28, 2011, 09:08:19 pm
Possessive apostrophes are your friends.

And yes, I'd imagine that a lion believes that humans are competition for the deer or whatever that it wants to eat etc.

Grief is clearly not universal, does a stone feel sad when its partner is erased? Of course not.

It's a grammatical affectation, not an error. See?

So if yes, then there is a universal, right? So there is no need to accuse me of anthropic attributions. Why is grief one, and not empathy (since empathy is what is involved in the imagination and speculation of the other creature's motives)?

And I'd say that yes, a stone would feel sad if it was particularly fond of the erased stone. I can't imagine spending millennia with another stone in a river bed and then not feeling loss if it was erased. 

Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: Alex_C on January 28, 2011, 09:16:17 pm
So if yes, then there is a universal, right? So there is no need to accuse me of anthropic attributions. Why is grief one, and not empathy (since empathy is what is involved in the imagination and speculation of the other creature's motives)?

And I'd say that yes, a stone would feel sad if it was particularly fond of the erased stone. I can't imagine spending millennia with another stone in a river bed and then not feeling loss if it was erased.

Err... no. Empathy != false attribution of motivation. I would argue that these lions lack Philosophy of Mind and therefore see not others as separate beings from themselves. Therefore others in their view must share their motivations etc.

Also, your lack of imagination is not my issue to address.
Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: Centurion on January 28, 2011, 09:34:59 pm
What does your conversation have to do with M&B?
Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: Alex_C on January 28, 2011, 09:40:03 pm
What does your conversation have to do with M&B?

What does M&B have to do with our conversation?
Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 28, 2011, 10:05:41 pm
Err... no. Empathy != false attribution of motivation. I would argue that these lions lack Philosophy of Mind and therefore see not others as separate beings from themselves. Therefore others in their view must share their motivations etc.

Also, your lack of imagination is not my issue to address.

No, attribution of motivation (false or not) doesn't necessarily follow from empathy. Your definition isn't right.

Also, your argument about a lion's lack of empathy is just as much a species bias as my argument that they have it.

The problem here isn't in the definition of empathy - that's easy to establish. It's about the capacity for it - in which case please explain where a human differs from a lion in that regard. Is it biological, or?

What does your conversation have to do with M&B?

What do you have to do with our conversation?  :shock:

Anyway, how can you begin to work out if the people you're playing M&B with are people, or people who are similar to you, if we don't discuss this sort of thing? How can you know that when you press Attack the other players can understand it?

Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: Alex_C on January 28, 2011, 10:31:15 pm
Everyone's own attacks, blocks mean something unique and highly personal to themselves alone. Nausea occurs when in the presence of the other, in which one is reduced to but an object in their eyes, how they interpret your attacks is how you are forever preserved in their mind. Hell is the other.


Is it biological, or?

Metaphysical. Plus lion r shit.
Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: Alex_C on February 01, 2011, 03:50:08 pm
What is the essence of this bump?
Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: Balton on February 01, 2011, 04:00:43 pm
Existentialism is a humanism, but that doesn't mean that other animals cannot have emotions such as empathy. Elephants do experience empathy, and yet they are not existentialists, the terms are not exclusive. To make it more clear, you don't have to know why you are experiencing an emotion in order to experience it, neither do elephants.

Also, I would love a philosophical-type board.
Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on February 01, 2011, 04:54:39 pm
What is the essence of this bump?

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSq8ZBdSxNU) is the essence of all bumps to this thread. Also, apologies for not replying to your earlier post, but it didn't make any sense.

Existentialism is a humanism, but that doesn't mean that other animals cannot have emotions such as empathy. Elephants do experience empathy, and yet they are not existentialists, the terms are not exclusive. To make it more clear, you don't have to know why you are experiencing an emotion in order to experience it, neither do elephants.

Existentialism is most easily defined as a philosophical movement concerning the individual, and individual freedom or lack thereof. It's also deeply concerned (particularly 20th Century onwards) with experience, and the nature of it.
This doesn't rule out animals at all! Not a humanism.

Also, I'd like you to demonstrate that there exists no elephant who could be described as an existentialist. What else is there to do in the African grasslands or Indian forests except ponder existence? Other than eat, of course.

As for emotions, which is a different issue: I think you always know why you are experiencing an emotion. If you didn't know why, you wouldn't be able to experience it. Have you ever experienced an emotion but not know why? I can't think of an example of this being the case, personally.

Also, I would love a philosophical-type board.

I'm glad one of the many thousands (possibly hundreds of thousands) of people who want such a board has come forward in support!

And I guess it could be a general philosophy board, not specifically about existentialism (and gaming).

Anyway, I'll put a poll up, and hopefully that will convince the lazy moderators to click on the admin panel and add a board.





Title: Re: A new child board please
Post by: Alex_C on February 01, 2011, 04:56:18 pm
Existentialism is a humanism, but that doesn't mean that other animals cannot have emotions such as empathy. Elephants do experience empathy, and yet they are not existentialists, the terms are not exclusive. To make it more clear, you don't have to know why you are experiencing an emotion in order to experience it, neither do elephants.

Also, I would love a philosophical-type board.

Errr... existentialism being a humanism would actually kinda imply that it is ultimately concerned with humanity's existence. Thereby also rather suggesting that the essence of an elephant precedes its existence, giving an elephant little more dignity than a paper-knife.


###EDIT###

Plus, I'm pretty sure this elephant's an existentialist:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: A new child board please (vote in the poll!)
Post by: Balton on February 01, 2011, 05:22:22 pm

Existentialism is most easily defined as a philosophical movement concerning the individual, and individual freedom or lack thereof. It's also deeply concerned (particularly 20th Century onwards) with experience, and the nature of it.
This doesn't rule out animals at all! Not a humanism.

Also, I'd like you to demonstrate that there exists no elephant who could be described as an existentialist. What else is there to do in the African grasslands or Indian forests except ponder existence? Other than eat, of course.

As for emotions, which is a different issue: I think you always know why you are experiencing an emotion. If you didn't know why, you wouldn't be able to experience it. Have you ever experienced an emotion but not know why? I can't think of an example of this being the case, personally.

I have experienced many emotions for reasons I was not aware of, or more precisely, I can't always pin-point exact answers to all dilemmas in my life. I have to ponder them, and even then an answer might take days, weeks, months, or even years for the most complex (emotionally zerged) "problems". Also emotions are based on the current neurons that are being fired off in your brain, you don't always have an exact count of every single sub-type during every millisecond. You also can't predict the way you will respond to every single situation.

Not even all humans ponder their existence in their free-time. Sure, ideally everyone has considered it at least once, but most people don't make it a heavy time-consuming activity in their life/day. Elephants can just do their thing with their emotions without the need to ponder.

And finally, animals do experience events, but that doesn't mean that at the end of the day they reflect about what happened and attempt to rationalize the events.

Errr... existentialism being a humanism would actually kinda imply that it is ultimately concerned with humanity's existence. Thereby also rather suggesting that the essence of an elephant precedes its existence, giving an elephant little more dignity than a paper-knife.


###EDIT###

Plus, I'm pretty sure this elephant's an existentialist:

(click to show/hide)

Not really, an incapability to ponder one's existence doesn't degrade one into an inanimate object.
Title: Re: A new child board please (vote in the poll!)
Post by: Alex_C on February 01, 2011, 05:35:13 pm
Not really, an incapability to ponder one's existence doesn't degrade one into an inanimate object.

Of course it does, by attempting to view them as lacking the liberty and dignity of humans, you're making them into deterministic machines, beings for which their essence precedes their existence.
Title: Re: A new child board please (vote in the poll!)
Post by: Balton on February 01, 2011, 05:43:30 pm
Of course it does, by attempting to view them as lacking the liberty and dignity of humans, you're making them into deterministic machines, beings for which their essence precedes their existence.

I'll just use your own words against you... You are prescribing anthropic characteristics to animals. To make it clear for you: non-humans are not humans, they do not possess qualities which we attribute exclusively (you said it yourself in the bolded) to humans.
Title: Re: A new child board please (vote in the poll!)
Post by: Alex_C on February 01, 2011, 05:49:02 pm
I'll just use your own words against you... You are prescribing anthropic characteristics to animals.

I was playing devil's advocate.

To make it clear for you: non-humans are not humans, they do not possess qualities which we attribute exclusively (you said it yourself in the bolded) to humans.

By we, who do you mean? The fact that you (and I'd imagine that you are in the plural considering your use of the word 'we') choose to attribute certain 'unique' characteristics to humans in order to avoid any connection between your being and physicality - and by extension your own mortality - is not proof that animals do not possess these attributes.
Title: Re: A new child board please (vote in the poll!)
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on February 03, 2011, 10:00:47 pm
To quote Aristotle (who was quoting Plato, who supposedly though we aren't really sure if it was Socrates or just Plato using Socrates as a dramatic tool to express his own opinions, was quoting Socrates):

BUMP

Also, the results of the poll seem conclusive so far. 100% yes. Where's my sub-board thing?!




I have experienced many emotions for reasons I was not aware of, or more precisely, I can't always pin-point exact answers to all dilemmas in my life. I have to ponder them, and even then an answer might take days, weeks, months, or even years for the most complex (emotionally zerged) "problems". Also emotions are based on the current neurons that are being fired off in your brain, you don't always have an exact count of every single sub-type during every millisecond. You also can't predict the way you will respond to every single situation.

A problem or dilemma is slightly different from an emotion though, surely? You have emotions about problems - the problem itself is a cause of emotion. The emotion doesn't need any working out, it's simple. For example - you feel angry, the reason for that is that something has made you angry. I don't really understand what you mean when you say that an emotion can be felt without you understanding why.

Also, I don't accept the 'neurons firing in brain' basis for emotions thing, so you're going to have to come up with a better explanation - one that makes sense.
Title: Re: A new child board please (vote in the poll!)
Post by: Casimir on February 03, 2011, 10:06:24 pm
I love lamp.
Title: Re: A new child board please (vote in the poll!)
Post by: Alex_C on February 03, 2011, 10:49:10 pm
Bane got permanently baned for this thread.