cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: BattalGazi on September 10, 2011, 06:33:39 pm

Title: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: BattalGazi on September 10, 2011, 06:33:39 pm

The caption is enough I guess. Make it similar to catapult; in means of being built by construction site and materials. The rest and details are up to you, I allow you.

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Paul on September 10, 2011, 06:51:34 pm

Thanks for all your work. The rest should be easy for us.

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: BattalGazi on September 10, 2011, 07:01:06 pm

Quote from: Paul on September 10, 2011, 06:51:34 pm

Thanks for all your work. The rest should be easy for us.

No problem :)

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Jarlek on September 11, 2011, 04:23:12 pm

I sense great sarcasm in this thread...

(click to show/hide)

Ok, since I can't code for my life, let me at least try to help out somewhat with stats/use and stuff like that.

First of all, the ballistae should require roughly the same amount of materials as a catapult. Personally I say it should be slightly more, but this is up to the Balancing team.

Secondly, the ballistae should have three (3) adjustments on it. Angle up/down, turn right/left and "pull". I am not sure if the balistae should be moveable or stationary. Personally I say stationary.

Thirdly, the balistae should fire in a pretty straight line. Of course with some gravity drop, but not like the catapult which shoots in an arc. Think of balistae as a cannon and the catapult as a mortar.

Fourthly, the ballistae should do the same "damage" as the catapult but should NOT make buildings "collapse". Also, while it makes sense, the balistae should NOT deal damage to breakable object like doors/gates etc. This is because it would probably 1-shot them.

Finally, the balistae should have less range and health than a catapult. The balistae should be a anti-siege equipment weapon and not a trololol stand far away and kill all defenders. So even with less range, because of the walls it would have enough range to hit the catapults and siege towers. It should also have less health so that when an enemy get's close it's pretty much destroyed (unless there's a lot of people there to gank any would be saboteurs).

Hope this helps!

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Kenji on September 11, 2011, 04:25:49 pm

Great, they already got arbalests and longbows and pikes, now ballistas? Heavy Cavs are going to be non-existent, I say!

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Jarlek on September 11, 2011, 04:39:26 pm

Quote from: Kenji on September 11, 2011, 04:25:49 pm

Great, they already got arbalests and longbows and pikes, now ballistas? Heavy Cavs are going to be non-existent, I say!

I doubt that. They would require LOADS of dudes to build it so you won't see them in public sieges (and battles wont have enough spawns) to build it. It's the same with catapults. The only place we would see them would be in strat sieges and probably a few strat battles. Then again if they are as slow and clonky to use as the catapults (which I find a nice and balancing thing) they wouldn't be usefull against anything that is moving. Maybe against shieldwalls or pikeformations that are stationary. But horsemen? Then they would be doing it VERY wrong I say.

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: chadz on September 11, 2011, 04:46:02 pm

the biggest problem with them is how to balance them.

I mean if they are siege equipment killers, who would still buy siege equipment as attacker.

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 11, 2011, 04:53:00 pm

Stupid people, that is who.

Then we can have a couple of arguements on the forums that result in catapults being buffed to where everytime you make one, it gives you two more complete with siege shields.

Then we have a couple more threads, and then both catapults and ballista are nerfed hard, with catapults just giving you one, and ballista have a terrible reload speed and only 8 shots.

Then we have more threads where people complain that catapults are are useless now after the nerf (forgetting that they are as strong as they originally were) and that the ballista are gimmick weapons.

I think I can see the future.

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: BattalGazi on September 11, 2011, 05:23:14 pm

Ok nuff being sarcastic, I shall talk more seriously.

The reason why I posted this suggestion was my observation on how people wished to have some defense mechanism on their castles in strategus battles. I really cannot foresee how the new wall implementation shall effect the sieges, therefore I will explain my ideas depending on the current wall system.

Firstly, we may want ballista to be less powerful than catapult. I guess everyone can agree on that. Properties may be;

1) the ballista being stationary, therefore having less degree of freedom both in control and localization.
2) could only be deployed on walls with enough space
3) throwing big arrow-like ammo unlike catapults hurling rocks ( much like an oversized siege arbalest )
4) being able to damage only players and player made structures ( siege shields, catapults, ladders etc.)
5) having much shorter range

The other properties could be the same with catapults, like unlimited ammo, being made of dozens of construction material and other stuff.

Assuming that all my enlisted properties are implemented, the attacker side shall still be advantageous over the defenders in means of siege equipment. As ballista crew will be limited to build their weapon only on walls, attackers will have the choice to start their attack on the ballista spot. Also, attackers are already given the chance to relocate their siege equipments if a ballista has been constructed against it. As the ballista is stationery, this will make the defenders to lose one of their ballista in means of being useless after all. Unlike the catapult firing system ( arch-shot ) the ballista will require a clear view in front ( like crossbows ) and this will avoid a complete shield-wall to protect it.

So after all, ballista will not be an indestructible and over powered siege equipment but a weapon of choice for the defenders to have a chance against the incredibly effective catapults. 

Like all any improvement or addition to this game, this system shall be criticized and there will be people asking for you to nerf it. But eventually a balance will be brought and we will gain another fun to play equipment in cRPG.

I'm a computer engineer myself and know the means of coding and debugging and all the hours it takes away from your very soul. Therefore I am just suggesting this new feature naively. :)

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Kenji on September 11, 2011, 06:15:12 pm

Quote from: Zapper on September 11, 2011, 04:39:26 pm

I doubt that. They would require LOADS of dudes to build it so you won't see them in public sieges (and battles wont have enough spawns) to build it. It's the same with catapults. The only place we would see them would be in strat sieges and probably a few strat battles. Then again if they are as slow and clonky to use as the catapults (which I find a nice and balancing thing) they wouldn't be usefull against anything that is moving. Maybe against shieldwalls or pikeformations that are stationary. But horsemen? Then they would be doing it VERY wrong I say.

I just wanted an excuse to be melodramatic, need not mind my words :mrgreen:

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Jarlek on September 11, 2011, 07:34:05 pm

Quote from: Kenji on September 11, 2011, 06:15:12 pm

I just wanted an excuse to be melodramatic, need not mind my words :mrgreen:

Don't worry. I'm a heavy cav myself. I ain't going away. EVER! xD

Quote from: chadz on September 11, 2011, 04:46:02 pm

the biggest problem with them is how to balance them.

I mean if they are siege equipment killers, who would still buy siege equipment as attacker.

Good point and reasonable problem. I think what BattalGazi said would be the way to do it (if you are gonna do it) by making it worse than the catapult and VERY situational. It should NEVER be the "bestest siege equipment) but rather somnething that will only be usefull in VERY specific situations. Maybe make them require a LOT of materials? Like 3x the amount for a catapult? Non-moving and slow firing?

Although I HAVE to say that I am VERY biased here. After all, I LOVE playing around with siege equipment and just want some more of them xD

Also; Trebuchets?

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: OttomanSniper on September 11, 2011, 07:39:40 pm

...and castle defence need multi rock thrower whell less catapults. Castle wars not fun, attackers always win, its too easy.

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Jarlek on September 11, 2011, 07:45:35 pm

Quote from: OttomanSniper on September 11, 2011, 07:39:40 pm

...and castle defence need multi rock thrower whell less catapults. Castle wars not fun, attackers always win, its too easy.

Actually that would be really fun. Some kind of "rock basket" or something where you could always spawn stones to throw at the enemy. Or a stone container thingie which you can tip and lose a hail of stones on people close to the wall. Kinda like in Stronghold :D

chadz, I know you like Stronghold. Make this more like Stronghold :D

(click to show/hide)

Sorry if I seem demanding. I just would like stuff like this a lot. Don't be mad.

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: OttomanSniper on September 11, 2011, 07:50:05 pm

Quote from: Zapper on September 11, 2011, 07:45:35 pm

Actually that would be really fun. Some kind of "rock basket" or something where you could always spawn stones to throw at the enemy. Or a stone container thingie which you can tip and lose a hail of stones on people close to the wall. Kinda like in Stronghold :D

chadz, I know you like Stronghold. Make this more like Stronghold :D

(click to show/hide)

Sorry if I seem demanding. I just would like stuff like this a lot. Don't be mad.

...and fire pits  :D

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: BattalGazi on September 11, 2011, 07:55:06 pm

Hey focus you two, don't dilute :)

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Jarlek on September 11, 2011, 08:40:53 pm

Quote from: BattalGazi on September 11, 2011, 07:55:06 pm

Hey focus you two, don't dilute :)

Rolling logs?

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: BattalGazi on September 11, 2011, 08:41:51 pm

Yea that sort of stuff has to wait its turn :)

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Jarlek on September 11, 2011, 08:59:40 pm

Hey. What about Mangonels? Basically a catapult that shoot 10 stones at power throw 5 damage and don't damage buildings? That would be cool :D

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Teeth on September 11, 2011, 09:08:58 pm

No ballistas, firing arrows is what you need.

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Arrowblood on September 11, 2011, 09:20:15 pm

ye i want new types of arrows:
cost arround 30 k or so
5 plate cutter arrows
13 pierce
 pls add it chadz

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Banok on September 12, 2011, 12:03:37 am

personally I've always wanted to see an engineer class. you can "construct" stuff for the battlefield like siege towers and healing tents, so we are halfway there. but obviously playing a engineer would be alot more fun if one could contruct a bastilla on the battlefield, think tf2 but medievil style. Balista balance wise should not be like playing a crossbowman, baslita would ideally be an anti-construction, anti-camp weapon but deadly vs a crowd to be sure ;)

but I never suggested this for reasons paul mentioned or didn't. plus I have new suggestion everytime I log in and try not to post them all.  :D

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: OttomanSniper on September 12, 2011, 09:55:47 am

This game need more realism. Defenders not have strategy.

+1 for ballista.

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Bobthehero on September 12, 2011, 10:20:03 am

Ballista with limited range might lead to them being useless by having people putting a cata out of range.

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: BattalGazi on September 12, 2011, 01:41:26 pm

Quote from: Bobthehero on September 12, 2011, 10:20:03 am

Ballista with limited range might lead to them being useless by having people putting a cata out of range.

We cannot foresee how this will effect the strategy of the attackers and defenders. As the game is still beta, there will be multiple chances to observe and fix the details. Important part is to initiate something new with relatively valid foundations.

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Jarlek on September 12, 2011, 02:30:48 pm

Quote from: Bobthehero on September 12, 2011, 10:20:03 am

Ballista with limited range might lead to them being useless by having people putting a cata out of range.

True. But then it would be more difficult to hit with the catapult, thus making them use more time giving the defenders a higher chance to win by the time limit. I understand your concern of course, but I say it would be better to introduce it and THEN balance it. If it is impossible then we can remove it like the Fire Bomb.

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: BattalGazi on September 13, 2011, 10:23:21 pm

So what say you devs?

Title: Re: Add Ballista for Castle Defenders
Post by: Paul on September 13, 2011, 10:25:40 pm

Make a decent model and maybe you get chadz enticed to do the coding.