cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: roymorrison on August 27, 2011, 06:13:56 pm
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Not a rage thread. I'm not mad, bro. These are the things that I think make the game less fun for everyone and are changeable. I bolded that last part because there's nothing you can do about certain things.
1. Long Spear
2. Pole Stun
3. Polearm overhead not hitting teammates. Seriously what the hell.
4. Getting couched in first 20 or so seconds of a round (nothing you can really do about this one.)
5. Shitty map rotations.
6. Reasons 1-3 when combined.
Discuss
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2h fanboy!
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I was actually a level 32 polearm guy until like 2 days ago. Not hitting teammates while overheading with a ridiculously long weapon is pretty fun unless you're on the receiving end.
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I don't really mind that honestly when on the receiving end, as it forces me to actually think a bit and call on teammates instead of charging in.
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It doesn't become noticeable unless you're in a big melee. Being an archer you probably don't experience that often.
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1) The community
2) Other people
3) Ranged players
4) Cav Players
5) The goddamned lolstab rediculousness (still)
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It doesn't become noticeable unless you're in a big melee. Being an archer you probably don't experience that often.
I have more experience in all of my melee alts then my one archer main in all honesty. I experience it all the time. In 7+ months of playing I am still Gen 5 for it.
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getting couched in first 20 seconds well look around :D shitty map rotation is opinion based you might think its shitty others might love it :D
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1) The community
2) Other people
3) Ranged players
4) Cav Players
5) The goddamned lolstab rediculousness (still)
U talkin ''Polearm lolstab'' or 2h Lolstab?
Also don't hate da cavs! Without cavs and ranged this turns into a duel game mode 24/7 with possibility that teammates might join in and gank as well!
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Yeah well you know what I think the worst thing about this game is?
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A lack of Fantasy, Adventure, Magic and Elves.
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Maybe because you don't "play" comics? Fail, PhantomZero, fail.
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1. Long Spear
2. Pole Stun
3. Polearm overhead not hitting teammates.
4. Getting couched in first 20 or so seconds of a round (nothing you can really do about this one.)
5. Shitty map rotations.
1. start using it
2. cant be changed (2h has it also but shorter)
3. you can back lashthem an poke their eye out pretty easily, and it does hit sometimes
4. awareness FAIL / grab a pike, they changed it down to 2 slots for a reason.
5. always been a part of this mod, never gonna change (was even worse before now its quite tolerable)
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POLEARM STUN, its seriously the worst part about cRPG/Warband, as far as balance goes, its outrageously OP, especially with the long spear.
Light cav on your team that cut off your heavy cav horse making the horse rear up and you get lanced in the back
How weak ~40 cut feels now when it used to 1-2 hit people until the armor buffs
People cheezing on duel server with lordly armor and gloves
Strategus map is way too small. Why even use Calradia's map? Use some other native maps or community made ones to serve as new fiefs castles and towns and some talented guys can redo the Strategus map to be more balanced, more spacious, and allow more clans to participate
Reminiscing about the golden era of cRPG before upkeep. Yes it was unbalanced as shit, but it actually felt like an MMO with the effort and time you could invest in a character with constantly returned results, especially from all the exp you could get from Strategus battles (6 million exp in an hour? ok!) and gen bonuses. It was a terrible grind for new players, but so awesome for veterans.
And the worst thing: being on the LLJK team :p
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My list
1. Archers who can shoot
2. Pikers who can pike
3. 2 handers that can umm stab
4. Ppl that try to hurt my destrier
5. Ppl that try to hurt me
6. Shielders are fine
Nerf rock, paper is fine Signed: Scissors
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- The constant bitching from the community due to this being a mod that encourages feedback.
- Some other stuff.
Also probably my favorite things too....
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dfdfsfdsfsdfsd <-- fail post
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1. Running Archers
2. Heavy cav crutchers
3. People who go to the same spot every round looking for you
4. Cav who can't lance, but can only bump
5. Farmer_Nate
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Two bad things about this mod are:
- imbalance
- shitty hit detection, hitboxes
Guess who is reponsible for both things.
The game, Warband is pretty good actually.
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Two bad things about this mod Native are is:
- imbalance
- shitty hit detection, hitboxes
Guess who is reponsible for both things.
The game, Warband is pretty good actually.
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1. People who complain too much
2. People who think too highly of themselves
3. Rednecks who own computers
4. People who have fun at the expense of everyone else
5. Everyone in TS
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U talkin ''Polearm lolstab'' or 2h Lolstab?
Both. The 2h lolstab is the more rediculous of the two and is a fucking retarded broken thing, but the polearm lolstab is stupid as well. Just stabs in general act moronic and do strange and nonsensical shit. Using weapons without the ability to stab you start noticing what a huge fucking broken crutch of idiocy it is. Mancleaver 4 lyf.
Also don't hate da cavs! Without cavs and ranged this turns into a duel game mode 24/7 with possibility that teammates might join in and gank as well!
Well aim at other people then. I'm either forced into the bundle of sticksry of carrying a shield (which still doesn't work as it gets shot around, over and under all the time.) and a damned pike of some sort just so I can hopefully survive long enough to GET to the melee battle. Which is why more often than not I get on my ranged or cav alt anymore in this damned game just so I can fucking shoot back / get to the battle faster and kill sooner.
TLDR
too many words, fuck you all, fuck it all, fuck the world,
fuck everything that you stand for
don't belong, don't exist
don't give a shit
don't ever judge me
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1. People who complain too much checked
2. People who think too highly of themselves checked
3. Rednecks who own computers checked
4. People who have fun at the expense of everyone else checked
5. Everyone in TS don't use TS very often
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The 2h lolstab is the more rediculous of the two and is a fucking retarded broken thing, but the polearm lolstab is stupid as well. Just stabs in general act moronic and do strange and nonsensical shit. Using weapons without the ability to stab you start noticing what a huge fucking broken crutch of idiocy it is. Mancleaver 4 lyf.
Spears and other stab designed/capable weapons should do what then?
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Nobody seems to realized that the polearm population (LONG SPEAR) exploded? Guess why.
It's broken and can outspeed, reech most weapons. (+ stun :mad: )
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Nobody seems to realized that the polearm population (LONG SPEAR) exploded? Guess why.
It's broken and can outspeed, reech most weapons. (+ stun :mad: )
Yeah and when a player blocks the spear user (or has a shield) and gets in his face and kills him because the long spear guy probably can't backpedal faster than someone can run forward things even out. 'OMG it's a spear being a spear and doing what spears do!!! NERF!!' Also arrows....'they fly through the air and hit people.' They should be manual only so you have to go up while holding one and stab with them directly... They act too 'arrowey' currently.
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Yeah and when a player blocks the spear user (or has a shield) and gets in his face and kills him because the long spear guy probably can't backpedal faster than someone can run forward things even out. 'OMG it's a spear being a spear and doing what spears do!!! NERF!!' Also arrows....'they fly through the air and hit people.' They should be manual only so you have to go up while holding one and stab with them directly... They act too 'arrowey' currently.
The problem is totaly the opposite. They destroy you even in close range, most hoplites can outspeed my agility build + MW longsword.
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The problem is totaly the opposite. They destroy you even in close range, most hoplites can outspeed my agility build + MW longsword.
I haven't noticed long spear users destroying in close range. Long spears aren't very fast.
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1. People that hate NA :(
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1. Panos
2. Panos
3. Panos
4. Panos
5. Panos
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1. Europe trash.
2. People who hate NA
3. People who think EU is better than NA.
4. Lolstabbers
5. Risen_Nemeth
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Farmer_Nate is one of the best things about this game, that is all.
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I've never understood what the lolstab is supposed to be. Is it the spin>>stab? I do have an issue with extremely long weapons(spears/pike) that still seem to cause damage at point blank range AND has a hitbox to the left and right of the actual weapon.
And since when did everything become a crutch? Before it was adding my old friend to everything you hated, now its crutch. Stupid memes.
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It's not the game that's broken or horribly unbalanced, it's the expectations of many of the players that are unbalanced. After reading so many threads like this, or of the "x is broken" etc. threads has made it painfully obvious to me that quite a few of the players on the forum (not necessarily players of the mod in general) believe that they should each be able to achieve some kind of demigod status on the battle field, being able to fight with no vulnerabilities for foes to exploit as they swing through the opposing team.
I've scrolled through so many posts from players whining or bitching about how their play style should be able to defeat cavalry, ranged, shielders and 2h/pole users that it makes me cringe. Mount and Blade was designed to try and retain some aspect of the real world in its game play, and just like in the real world no one path/style/attack/defense/etc. is absolute. Maybe I'm just crazy but it makes perfect sense to me that as a strict polearm user I should be vulnerable to archers, and that I am capable of killing cavalry, and that as an archer I should avoid direct contact and expect to be killed by charging infantry without support, or that as a cavalry player I need to avoid polearms and use my speed to flank and engage in hit-and-run attacks while avoiding faster riders. Doesn't this make sense to anyone else? And to clarify, I am not saying that the game should be designed so that it's just an endless game of rock-paper-scissors, that should be avoided at all costs, but that does not mean that the weaknesses and strengths of different play styles should be removed. If anything, I feel that the weaknesses of different unit archetypes forces players to be smart and tactical with their engagement on the battlefield, and to be a great player requires not only skill but situational awareness and knowledge of the restrictions of the various play styles.
But maybe I'm asking too much, maybe asking for people to be patient, calm and logical is outside the domains of the internet and the (or at least this) gaming community. I don't know.
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1. Paul
2. Fasader
3. chadz listening to guys mentioned above
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Roofcamping.
Seriously.
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1. stab on the 1h warhammer. so godamn goofy and just stops in mid air half the time
besides that theres alot of goofy shit in this game but ehh shit happens. people running backwards and spamming attacks and getting hit for full damage while out of range is awesome as well. the best is when the spearmen jump backwards and spin around and stab you for full damage as well. jumping backwards and thrusting forwards is a paradox!!!!!!!
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Cavalry....
Nerf it
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Cavalry....
Nerf it
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Yeah well you know what I think the worst thing about this game is?
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A lack of Fantasy, Adventure, Magic and Elves.
Oh Gawd. Go play WOWser.
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I'd also add the amount of ranged, and the random balancing.
Sometimes it works, but most of the time it does weird stuff.
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1. fasader
2. xbows
3. lancers
4. fasader
5. pikes.
6. fasader
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long spears dont bother me in that they easily kill me in group combat, no its that outside of group combat it is possible to melee just fine with one and if you cant fight well with one no worry just pull out your bec de corbin :P
cav in terms of speed are fine where they are but its the rediculous acceleration and manuever that lets cav compete in direct combat with infantry aware of them
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I've never understood what the lolstab is supposed to be. Is it the spin>>stab? I do have an issue with extremely long weapons(spears/pike) that still seem to cause damage at point blank range AND has a hitbox to the left and right of the actual weapon.
Its because on a stab only the very tip of the weapon model will hit anything, hence spin stabbing through the ground into you, stabbing through teamates, through walls, etc.
As well as how long it is on 2handers.
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Herro Roy I enjoy your army stories.
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1) The community
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Wut?
Communitah is great, even you LLJK folks.
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-2h (It will always be overpowered)
-archers (They will always be annoying roofcampers)
-pike/long spear (Ridiculously broken atm)
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longspear isnt that bad. annoying when half of the enemy team decides to use one but most of the time it's not a big deal. also longspear guys are usually pretty easy to kill without support even if they're good because once you're "inside" it's range stabbing hardly does anything
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1- players that change builds according to every patch flavor.
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1- players that change builds according to every patch flavor.
What's wrong with that lol.
Can't blame people who don't want to play for example archery if it gets nerfed to the ground.
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longspear isnt that bad. annoying when half of the enemy team decides to use one but most of the time it's not a big deal. also longspear guys are usually pretty easy to kill without support even if they're good because once you're "inside" it's range stabbing hardly does anything
I think you've been fighting the wrong pikers. The good pikers (not me) have no problem stabbing for full damage "inside" the logical range of the polearm. They simply thrust into the ground or to the side of you and then rotate the weapon into you such that the haft touches your hitbox somewhere. The game treats this exactly as though you had been struck by a thrust when in fact the "pointy" part of the spear didn't even touch you at all. It's completely counter-intuitive as these weapons appear to be too long to stab with at point-blank ranges. Utter bullshit.
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I think you've been fighting the wrong pikers. The good pikers (not me) have no problem stabbing for full damage "inside" the logical range of the polearm. They simply thrust into the ground or to the side of you and then rotate the weapon into you such that the haft touches your hitbox somewhere. The game treats this exactly as though you had been struck by a thrust when in fact the "pointy" part of the spear didn't even touch you at all. It's completely counter-intuitive as these weapons appear to be too long to stab with at point-blank ranges. Utter bullshit.
that's when you downblock
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that's when you downblock
To hard to block an 81 speed weapon (or some such shit like that) that only has one or two attack directions (pike or Long spear)...
And yet people still claim that speed is MASSIVELY important... I like that they then claim that the pike and long spear is too fast...
Don't mind me, I shall enjoy my super-human powers of performing better when fighting a piker/long-spear user one on one, as apparently that is rare. But wait ToD, in groups Pikes and Long Spears are overpowered! One guy can hold your attention and then the other guy attacks you the instant you lower your attack! Well have no fear idiot peasant, for I the woundrous ToD have noticed that the same can apply if a shielder kites you while an archer/crossbowman/thrower snipes you from the other side, or if a pair of melee lunatics attack you, or if two cav decide to play bumpercars with you! Huzzah, I am a god damned genius!
I am such an amazing player for never having undue difficulty fighting pikers like the unwashed masses apparently do... God I love being me.
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To hard to block an 81 speed weapon (or some such shit like that) that only has one or two attack directions (pike or Long spear)...
And yet people still claim that speed is MASSIVELY important... I like that they then claim that the pike and long spear is too fast...
Don't mind me, I shall enjoy my super-human powers of performing better when fighting a piker/long-spear user one on one, as apparently that is rare. But wait ToD, in groups Pikes and Long Spears are overpowered! One guy can hold your attention and then the other guy attacks you the instant you lower your attack! Well have no fear idiot peasant, for I the woundrous ToD have noticed that the same can apply if a shielder kites you while an archer/crossbowman/thrower snipes you from the other side, or if a pair of melee lunatics attack you, or if two cav decide to play bumpercars with you! Huzzah, I am a god damned genius!
I am such an amazing player for never having undue difficulty fighting pikers like the unwashed masses apparently do... God I love being me.
i totally agree. pikers are not a issue in 1vs1. they really shine when paired with a good melee. you should see Shpongled with the pike teamed with some other merc. they move as only one body. you can't do anything about that. you need a really good teammate to engage em. that's all.
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Only thing fairly bad about this game is the small amount of stunn from blocking that enables spam to be viable, there should be moar stunn for hitting someone thats blocking methinks, maybe this shouldnt apply to certain stuffs that need to be spammed sometimes to be balanced, like great maul and long maul. thats it really :D loved the game for years now
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Not a rage thread. I'm not mad, bro. These are the things that I think make the game less fun for everyone and are changeable. I bolded that last part because there's nothing you can do about certain things.
1. Long Spear
2. Pole Stun
3. Polearm overhead not hitting teammates. Seriously what the hell.
4. Getting couched in first 20 or so seconds of a round (nothing you can really do about this one.)
5. Shitty map rotations.
6. Reasons 1-3 when combined.
Discuss
1. The weapon itself isn't horribly imbalanced, this seems like a personal rage
2. Game mechanic
3. Game glitch
4. Baddyness
5. Petition in forum to have a map removed
6. Already addressed.
I have discussed.
As an addendum excuse me addressing only the OP. Many valid points have been made.
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Only thing fairly bad about this game is the small amount of stunn from blocking that enables spam to be viable, there should be moar stunn for hitting someone thats blocking methinks, maybe this shouldnt apply to certain stuffs that need to be spammed sometimes to be balanced, like great maul and long maul. thats it really :D loved the game for years now
with the morningstar, i rely a lot on stunning upper blocks to make an open to a swift side swing.
every kind of weapon have his playstyle. swords rely on feints and stabs, polearms rely on stagger, heavy and unbalanced weapons rely on hold attacks and upper block stun (because unbalanced weapons are not made for feints)
block stun by heavier weapons is not a bad thing. also to stun a block, you need to hold the attack for a good power blow. that leaves an opening itself so is easy to counter.
and no. mauls are not made to be mindlessly spammed. a good mauler will wait a good opening to have the time to land a overhead. that require blocking several times until the enemy footwork fails. i often make errors with the maul and every kind of 1h can outspam me if i don't look for a opening.
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insta stab for one handed horsemen
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about worst things in this game:
- when two players of the same clan are in different teams and they help each other to kill their enemies/teammates, dehorsing friendly cav, just to be the two last players and duel.
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1. Using a bow or throwing weapons and having to re-learn how to play or retire every patch after major and senseless nerfs.
2. Using a bow or throwing weapons and being surprised how the devs managed to find one more way to nerf you even when you thought they had done everything.
3. The fact that the devs seem to despise realism balancing, but respond with realism explanations and links to youtube videos they're referencing when justifying ranged nerfs. Balancing nothing else according to realism.
4. Crossbows are immune to this for some reason.
5. Anyone who plays melee doesn't give a shit and just trolls game balance threads, because it doesn't effect them. "Fuck you, got mine."
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1. Using a bow or throwing weapons and having to re-learn how to play or retire every patch after major and senseless nerfs.
2. Using a bow or throwing weapons and being surprised how the devs managed to find one more way to nerf you even when you thought they had done everything.
3. The fact that the devs seem to despise realism balancing, but respond with realism explanations and links to youtube videos they're referencing when justifying ranged nerfs. Balancing nothing else according to realism.
4. Crossbows are immune to this for some reason.
5. Anyone who plays melee doesn't give a shit and just trolls game balance threads, because it doesn't effect them. "Fuck you, got mine."
i miss my old warbow sniper&machinegun archer with 7PD and 220wpf but... i think archery and throwing is fairly good now. now an effective archer must waste no arrows, if use a warbow/longbow needs protection, if use strongbow or khergit will be better for soloing but weaker.
i play primarily as a melee and i still see Jambi and other good archers topping scoreboards with warbows. Matumba uses a strongbow and yet is deadly.
about throwers, i tried a hybrid 2h/throwing 18/18 with 110 2h and 130ish throwing (PS6 PT6 ATH6 WM6) and was quite nasty and effective with jarids.
i even have a pure PT9 thrower with jarids and with some aim, is quite deadly. onehits any non-armored cav, 2hits warhorses, 1hit every build under 50 armor.
we have a good ranged percentage in every server. if archery would be like it was in 2010, would be a mess (like in native with the vaegir archers spam)
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my list
1. THE USE OF JUMPING AS A BATTLE FIELD TACTIC
2. reloading while running away
3. immortal horses
4. the uber radius of the horse bump mechanic
5. backswings on long polearms (i can put my poleaxe into a wall/teammate with no problem but i cant take it out?)
6. the ability for horses to turn 180 degrees and then go 0-60 in 1.5 seconds
7. Crushthrough (Anything that can completely and utterly negate another play style) Long mauls arent bad as they are far too slow for a duel
8. Bec de corbin - Really? its not like the damn weapon isnt already invisable you also got to give it epic damage and speed?
9. Two handed sword thrusts - they loook soooooo stupid
10. flamberges have a two handed holding style when not being swung (it looks so stupid)
11. the difference between 0 wm and 10 wm is only 80 wpf
12. weapons that have a thrust that SHOULDNT (long maul, war axe 16c, regular hafted blade)
13. the only noticable difference between crossbows is the shade of brown that their stock has
14. rocks have a melee mode but throwing daggers dont
15. force shields
16. the rediculous accuracy of archers that require force shields
17. the running in zig zags to avoid arrows (as if that was an authentic tactic)
18. the stupid animation that shields are held in
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Archers are stupid accurate yet zigzags can defeat then? Interesting.
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my list
14. rocks have a melee mode but throwing daggers dont
We can't give throwing daggers/knives melee mode because we can't change or even rotate the weapon model for the alt mode. Well, we could but then one would stab with the hilt like someone who missed his first fighting lesson(Stick 'em with the pointy end.).
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We can't give throwing daggers/knives melee mode because we can't change or even rotate the weapon model for the alt mode. Well, we could but then one would stab with the hilt like someone who missed his first fighting lesson(Stick 'em with the pointy end.).
Would it be possible with WSE introduction? If yes, there're some interesting things that could be implemented (like hitting with a pommel in half-sword mode, etc.)
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We can't give throwing daggers/knives melee mode because we can't change or even rotate the weapon model for the alt mode. Well, we could but then one would stab with the hilt like someone who missed his first fighting lesson(Stick 'em with the pointy end.).
uh bullshit what do you think happens to the jarids and war darts when you swap them to melee
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uh bullshit what do you think happens to the jarids and war darts when you swap them to melee
Their model is not changed. Javelin-like throwing weapons and throwing axes are held by the grip while throwing so they are held right in melee mode. Daggers are held by the blade for throwing and when switched to melee they are held by the blade as well. Try it for yourself with the model system. But I think I waste my time here.
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Worst thing about the game is some of the players. The ones who can't handle when they are challenged and want the other guy to just roll over and die. Almost makes me ENJOY making them rage....almost.
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I hate how everyone is suddenly so tanky, the feel of the game is broken for me. Goddamn 3 slashes to the face and people don't die on regular basis now. With fucking 8PS!!?!!?
Oh and the shit I survive sometimes is just ridiculous now, I would rather die for my mistakes.
Plus how a new patch fucked up my lvl 29 thrower back in the day, still cannot lvl him up to 31 to respec its pain in the ass to play him.
New stab animations suck and are confusing as fuck. People will stab with a sword it will seem like they miss, then they move their weapon in my direction and I get hit by that thing. I mean alright it touched me, but it looked more like he just laid that thing on my shoulder not stabbed me for 1/3 HP.
Throwing.... my throwing axes fly at the speed of a paper plane.
Buff kick :D
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That shields are not always solid objects, do not have directional block, and that the animation for the shield arm position when not blocking or when attacking is silly
That high powered attacks do not crushthrough or knockdown unless they are tagged for it
How blocking stab attacks work and the animation that goes with it
Predefined classes or any development moving in that direction
Arbitrary item difficulties (they should all be strength based, excepting horses) and too high of a correlation between item difficulty and gold cost (they should be unrelated)
Clan elitism in pub servers
Not enough horses
Not enough items in general
Strange hitbox detection
The size of the gap stat-wise between a lvl 1 and lvl 30 character.
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That high powered attacks do not crushthrough or knockdown unless they are tagged for it
you're right about knockdown, but crushthrough doesn't have nothing random variable.
back in 2010, i was a full time barmace/morningstar blockcrusher. when i was leveling between gens, every tick of powerstrike added more crushthru power. and when the difference between my ability to pass the block was even with the enemy ability to stop it, gaining speedbonus + hold attack + hitting with the very end of the weapon, was a sure crushthru.
so no. crushthru does not contain a random variable. is just raw damage (involving powerstrike, weight of the weapon, speed bonus, attack modifier.. like a good timed hold attack giving x1.5 to damage.... and weapon striking zone) x weapon weight (i don't know the true formula).
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Someone start a thread named "Best things about this game" already.
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Damn kiting archers. Solution would be increase of weight of bows. Make it like 3.0 for lighter and 6.0 for heaviest. And reduce damage by 2 so they have to use more power draw to deal damage, thus decreasing their agility and athletic.
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We can't give throwing daggers/knives melee mode because we can't change or even rotate the weapon model for the alt mode. Well, we could but then one would stab with the hilt like someone who missed his first fighting lesson(Stick 'em with the pointy end.).
They did it in WFaS. Maybe take a look at their code when it comes out and TOTALLY NOT COPY/STEAL FROM IT.
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1. Nearly everyone (well, honestly, just way too many people including myself) using crossbows or bows
The amount of ranged would be a lot healthier if:
a. Crossbows would need some sort of specialization. Like make them require power draw but not gain benefit from it. You could still do decent hybrids but at least you'd have to invest in them a bit more.
b. Archers would not be able to do retarded run -> turn to shoot -> repeat tactics. You could compensate it with somewhat better melee abilities, though mace is pretty damn good weapon for 1 slot.
2. The previously mentioned kiting from archers. If you run, you should be unable to to fight at the same time. Crossbows are far better in this manner: if you have an arbalest you either grab your melee weapon when someone gets close or run and try to get far enough to reload.
3. Mace could be slightly worse, but that isn't really too bad.
For refrence I play a polearm character and carry a crossbow since it's by far the best option. The 2 slots I have for crossbow and bolts would be a lot worse with throwing and archery. I'd actually have to sacrifice a lot more to carry either of the option without too big benefit.
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Map rotation. Just sick of villages/towns over and over and over again. People actually DO use tactics on random maps, load a few up and watch! It's loads of fun, especially if you keep them medium or smaller, and leave it on for enough rounds for people to pull together and work something out!
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People who kill me.
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People who kill me.
The only truthful answer thus far :)
Search your heart, search your soul...
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c-rpg/strategus exploiters, cheaters, hackers. Whole clans are involved in this, most of you know which clans so I won't name them.
But they are scum of this community and don't deserve to be threated with respect.
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This :cry:
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1-scissors QQ against rock
2-rocks QQ of paper
3-papers QQ of scissors
4-repeat intill said QQ are nerfed so rock is a grain of sand,scissors is two blades of grass,paper is sawdust
THE END