Dedicated Crossbowmen - where have they gone?
This lobbyism crap isn't even funny anymore. I have a mid-level crossbowman using a simple crossbow with the ninja-buffed steel bolts and he's super effective. Fortunatly I'm playing both, archer and crossbowman, so I can compare and don't have to rely on this kind of pseudo-feedback.
Gnjus - thrower
Gnjus is throwing because it's overpowered.
I don't know how, but I've been one-shotted more than once by crossbowmen and they weren't headshots. Same with archers
So basically i was amongst the first throwers out there who wanted to play throwing because they like it, not because they think (or know) its OP after the patch.
Umm...first post patch throwers, you mean.
Gnjus I meant exactly that - you switched from xbow to throwing. You always were a hybrid and had huscarl shield and pick/axe (whichever it was) - I didn't feel that needed noting.
This lobbyism crap isn't even funny anymore.
And my main is a lancer/ pikeman, so a crossbow buff would hurt me a lot.
Also, I made this char like others for testing purposes only, I will delete him soon.
I have a mid-level crossbowman using a simple crossbow with the ninja-buffed steel bolts and he's super effective.
Fortunatly I'm playing both, archer and crossbowman, so I can compare and don't have to rely on this kind of pseudo-feedback.
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/5534/paris1q.jpg
Couldnt bring something similiar with the level 20 crossbowman.
Yeah.. That's kind of the problem right now with xbows. My main is 79 pole and 140 xbow, sniper with steel bolts, and it's not unusual I hit some guy with no clothes in the chest and he survives. I assume he's fairly high lvl with some IF, but still. Anyone with a loomed fully loomed xbow experiencing this as well?
Too be fair, thats not uncommon with any weapon now. However even with armour xbows and throwing seems to be the only weapons that take more then 60% hp in one hit.
One thing you have to keep in mind is that damaging an opposing player helps winning the round. You don't have to get the kill do be rewarded.
Too be fair, thats not uncommon with any weapon now. However even with armour xbows and throwing seems to be the only weapons that take more then 60% hp in one hit.
Anyway a dedicated melee can easily onehit a naked with his flamberge, thats the price class we are talking about...
This lobbyism crap isn't even funny anymore. I have a mid-level crossbowman using a simple crossbow with the ninja-buffed steel bolts and he's super effective. Fortunatly I'm playing both, archer and crossbowman, so I can compare and don't have to rely on this kind of pseudo-feedback.
A simple crossbow is a hybrid crossbowman's weapon, not suited for a dedicated crossbowman.
This thread is about dedicated crossbowmen and their whereabouts, as for that, mine is retired.(click to show/hide)
Where oh where have the crossbowmen gone!
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I got your crossbowmen right 'ere!
Why it is not suited for dedicated crossbowman ? Seem fine for them, you trade damage for speed. Urist is right.
It's not like 1h where you have to pick best weapon to compete, there is tradeoff.
It's like 1h where you have to pick best weapon to compete, assuming you want to be a ranged troop ergo compete with other ranged.
It's not just a matter of "trading damage for speed" - you trade range, bolt speed and damage for speed.
Simple crossbow do fine, as folks with it have access to better armor and melee than those with sniper, and shoot faster allowing them to win in ranged combat. You anyway need more than 1 hit.
Why it is not suited for dedicated crossbowman ? Seem fine for them, you trade damage for speed. Urist is right.
It's not like 1h where you have to pick best weapon to compete, there is tradeoff.
because after 138 wpf the accuracy doesn't get any better.
Well, if you're going to play as a crossbowman, play as a crossbowman. Grab a heavy or preferably sniper if you can afford it, stay somewhere a bit off and try to snipe horses, ranged, maybe some hero meleer if you get the chance. You'll get the opportunity to farm kills when it's melee time (the fighting got near / further away and you're mopping reminders), someone tries to backstab you, etc.
It's a different playstyle then melee with crossbow sidearm, and it's generally a more relaxing one sometimes.
Does shield on back stop projectiles or lower their damage? Any even slight use of a crossbowman having shield on their back?
Yes, it lowers damage. Just yesterday I shot my friend in the back. It was raining, he was running away from me and it hit the shield on the back, and that was enough for my heavy crossbow to glance off his brigandine.
The top weapon in each category *should be* so expensive that you can't have it all the time. That is proper balance with current upkeep.
Anyone tried heirlooming both the xbow and steel bolts yet ?
I'm pretty sure you can keep the sniper crossbow+steel bolts indefinitely. It's only 20k. My usual battle setup costs 28k without horse. Warbow+Bodkins is just minimally cheaper, but requires more skill points to use. In any case a meleer has a lot more gold to spend on his weapon and armor than someone who takes range with him, which is as it should be imo.
1.False. heavy lance + courser is moar expansive
2.xbow doesn't have to spend any skill points, that is a Huge difference
3. If price are so high it was to avoid the old prepatch way where everybody and their mama had a xbow. It's the same for cav...
1. ONLY 20k? That price tag makes a sniper xbow and steel bolts the single most expensive weapon in all of crpg. And with a performance that is at the very least debatable, the price tag is unquestionably high for what you get. You just compared a single weapon to your entire gear loadout, wherein the prices were similar, and you stated that you felt this was as it should be. LAWL, wow.
2. Best xbow+bolts = 20k. Best bow + arrows = 13k. That is not a minimal difference, as you said. With the other 7k, an xbowman could get a decent set of light/medium armor, which makes sense, since the nature of xbows nearly demands that an xbowman enter into melee far more often than archers.
3. Even if the xbow + steel bolts was the same price as the best bow + best arrows(13k), a pure melee would still have more gold to pay for his weapons/armor(+13k). I think this is not only acceptable, but far more balanced than what we currently have.
2. xbow requires WM to use effectively, so yes, it DOES require a skill. Just 1 skill instead of 2 like the bow. That difference is paid for in the rate of fire, and lack of mobility while reloading. Without WPF, the targeting reticule is about the size of a throwing lance being thrown by a proficient thrower, which is to say, huge
About effectiveness, you can argue, but I found no problem using a sniper crossbow on maps that offered good cover.
Wait, what? Throwing lances are that accurate?
No, I had both archer and crossbowman after patch. Gen7 and retiring early is nice.
The top weapon in each category *should be* so expensive that you can't have it all the time. That is proper balance with current upkeep.not true, all my other chars can use best weapon or multiple near best weapons all the time, with other items.
btw... do i just feel like it or is accuracy somewhat reversed on crossbows?
i mean lately on one of my other chars i have been using light crossbow with horse with _0 ha_ & _0 wpf_ and i seem to get quite decently small crosshair. Also seems that my crossbow char (some mid level or so) with 124 or so wpf gets smaller crosshair with lighter crossbow, even when stats show sniper having more accuracy... do i just feel like this or...
I actually tested and can confirm your suspicion.(click to show/hide)
Using the program ImageJ (free and awesome,) I measured the distance between the centers on the 3 interior circles in each reticule image. From these measurements I determined the width of the each reticule using the average distance between the interior circles. I used an average value here because, even at 1920x1080 resolution, the distance values had digitization and, more significantly, the distance between the bottom two circles is different that the distance from the upper circle to either lower circle. I also determined the area of each reticule since projectile grouping are areal, not linear. This reticule area was defined as the area of a circumscribed circle for an equilateral triangle with edge length equal to the given reticule width. Below are plots of the reticule width and reticule area in pixels and pixels^2, respectively, as a function of crossbow proficiency.(click to show/hide)
I'm not sure what the accuracy values on the website are suppose to be, but it does not appear to be accuracy in the traditional sense.
I also measured the time taken to expend 21 bolts (the one that comes loaded and a 20 bolt quiver) allowing for a minimized reticule each shot. I can also report that the agility of a character does not directly increase crossbow rate of fire.(click to show/hide)
I actually tested and can confirm your suspicion.(click to show/hide)
Using the program ImageJ (free and awesome,) I measured the distance between the centers on the 3 interior circles in each reticule image. From these measurements I determined the width of the each reticule using the average distance between the interior circles. I used an average value here because, even at 1920x1080 resolution, the distance values had digitization and, more significantly, the distance between the bottom two circles is different that the distance from the upper circle to either lower circle. I also determined the area of each reticule since projectile grouping are areal, not linear. This reticule area was defined as the area of a circumscribed circle for an equilateral triangle with edge length equal to the given reticule width. Below are plots of the reticule width and reticule area in pixels and pixels^2, respectively, as a function of crossbow proficiency.(click to show/hide)
I'm not sure what the accuracy values on the website are suppose to be, but it does not appear to be accuracy in the traditional sense.
I also measured the time taken to expend 21 bolts (the one that comes loaded and a 20 bolt quiver) allowing for a minimized reticule each shot. I can also report that the agility of a character does not directly increase crossbow rate of fire.(click to show/hide)
Rather than increasing the reload speed or damage I think I would rather see the actual projectile speed increased so it gets to the target a bit quicker.
Rather than increasing the reload speed or damage I think I would rather see the actual projectile speed increased so it gets to the target a bit quicker.
Well, don't you know that ranged combat is "a my old friendgy and cowardly style of fighting" and has no place in Mount & Crybabbies?
Actually, the accuracy stat is on the other hand counterbalanced with weapon damage. The more damaging a ranged weapon is, the less accurate. These are native, hardcoded mechanics. Hunting with its 40 or whatever damage with 94 acc would be probably closed reticule.
That said, 145 wpf doesn't do the sniper crossbow justice. You need more wpf by design to achieve the same sort of accuracy lower end crossbows have with less wpf.
Interestingly, this line of reasoning also implies that heirloom crossbows might require more crossbow proficiency to reach their maximum potential accuracy, which may be better, and their initial accuracy may be worse due to their increased damage.
Perhaps the accuracy statistic determines the minimum reticule size achievable.
I actually tested and can confirm your suspicion.(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)