cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Christo on August 16, 2011, 03:57:05 am
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Every time I see a map, I instantly start thinking in movements, flanks, groups, coordinated attacks, all the stuff.
(Too much Sun Tzu reading on my end, sure, but it's okay. I'm not full of myself. :) )
But because of the nature of teams, most of them are impossible to pull off.
Now I know that there are some good leaders like Phaz and co. The question is to all players though:
How in the hell can you forge a team of pubbers into a somewhat organized and controllable team?
I tried to erm.. Spam orders via CAPS, but it rarely gets attention, and because of that, we get split up, one side of the attack will be weaker than the other, and so on.
Do I really have to go the Drill Instructor way, always mocking the team in caps, making myself looking like a retard?
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Don't people find that offensive, and they'll just do the opposite because they can show "him" who's the boss around town?
Any tips are welcome.
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pubs are impossible to control, half of them are retarded anyways and the other half are terrible
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pubs are impossible to control, half of them are retarded anyways and the other half are terrible
Yeah but if you manage to convince most, the rest follows, because most people will stick to the team.
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Yeah but if you manage to convince most, the rest follows, because most people will stick to the team.
my experience is that i can convince half while the other half charge blindly to their death/
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All I can offer is personal opinion and experience, so here that is. I love an organized game, teamwork, plan of action, execution, the whole deal. I'm always willing to follow what looks to be some semblance of a plan during games, but when the call to action is a comment like "HEY FUCKERS, GO LEFT YOU IDIOTS, OK NOW FOLLOW ME AND DO AS I SAY", it doesn't exactly inspire comradery and a desire to cooperate. I don't find being abrasive and dickish to be an effective leadership tactic, especially coming from people as random to me as I am to them. So like you mentioned, my first inclination at that point is to do the opposite of what is being demanded, or at least to not satisfy the prick.
Now on the other hand, if someone seems like a reasonable human being who has something of some value to say and presents it in a calm demeanor, befitting of the fact that we're playing a game here after all, then we're in business. Enthusiasm builds as now we have something to work towards, not just run out to the slaughter. Of course, there can be a discussion about having good ideas or bad ones, but that's not the point here. Usually if there is a plan, it's better than not, if for no other reason than it allows for more team mates to stick together for longer.
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my experience is that i can convince half while the other half charge blindly to their death/
this
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Make a joke build such as a super-shield Tavern_Keeper, or a Masterwork Stone throwing Village_Elder, do a little RP, and eventually people will follow you. It works for me all the time.
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use orders sparingly, type them in caps when you do
lead by example, dont ask them to do anything you wouldnt do
become a martyr
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use orders sparingly, type them in caps when you do
lead by example, dont ask them to do anything you wouldnt do
become a martyr
Basically this. Also, if you are seen to do very well in battle, pubbies usually gravitate towards you.
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Basically this. Also, if you are seen to do very well in battle, pubbies usually gravitate towards you.
Exactly
Karma and Diggles are both correct.
Actions speak louder than words.
Pubbies are more likely to listen to the guy who is on top of the scoreboard rather than someone who is 2-2 and spamming caps in chat.
Also don't get too complicated with the orders. Leave them at, GO LEFT, or GO RIGHT, or TO THE HOUSE, or something along those lines.
I can't tell you how many times pubbie cav have followed me through a battle and the team benefits that much more because of teamwork
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As chadz is a master of coding, he would probably be able to implement a voteable commander, which can display orders in his own colour or something. Although this still wouldn't mean that everyone follows those orders. But I think adding somekind of system could really help organizing randoms and also enhance the cRPG experience.
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I have found out, that asking about a plan in teamchat, when my team loses tend to pay off.
But eventhough, it's very hard to get everyone to follow one plan, when people are spamming
voice commands all of the time.
So, it could be nice as SgtTeeh suggested, a voteable commander - this could work
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A lot of you guys are talking about putting your orders in caps in chat. I think a use of good punctuation works better to show your official-ness. If I see some guy (2-2 or 15-0) spamming caps in team chat I'm more than likely to walk in the exact opposite way from that group. If you think about it, the people who are most likely to follow that guy are sheep. Who do you want next to you when in a gigantic fight? A sheep boxing you in or room to retreat to a better position. A sheep tking because they can't control that Long Voulge they picked up, or room to dance and weave around your attackers alone or with another "lone wolf" ally.
I'm always wary of guys who try to co-ordinate pubbies.
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A lot of you guys are talking about putting your orders in caps in chat. I think a use of good punctuation works better to show your official-ness. If I see some guy (2-2 or 15-0) spamming caps in team chat I'm more than likely to walk in the exact opposite way from that group.
we didnt say spam, we said say orders sparingly and IN CAPS. it has to stand out, regular non caps easily get lost in chat spam
one point I forgot to leave out was if you can, GIVE ORDERS BEFORE START OF NEXT ROUND, ie especially if your team is losing badly and most are dead already. Get the pugs to know your intentions for the start of next round instead of letting them formulate their own plan of running off to die. If they knew you were doing XXX and several people follow you on the way to XXX at the start of the round, they're more likely to follow as well.
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Make a joke build such as a super-shield Tavern_Keeper, or a Masterwork Stone throwing Village_Elder, do a little RP, and eventually people will follow you. It works for me all the time.
I agree, people always follow my Pebble char around although I think thats more to do with the amusing spectacle of a tin can getting studded with stones than listening to any orders. :lol:
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I hate you pebbles, You seem so un hostile, but you can shoot above my shield :(
Bastard pebbles!
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Well the best thing to do is since there is a thing called banner balance and it puts clans together to appeal to that crowd when you see them or try working with them.
if theres a say 6-7 of you and you start moving one way theres a big chance the ppl will follow you because you atleast look to know what you are doing. might not work the first time bu go your own way and when you do good ppl will realise thats the way to go.
so my advice stick with the clans and communicate with them and the random/casual guys will follow for sure.
if not hell atleast you tried and atleast small group of you guys played the game as its supposed to be played and you made a diffrence, theres nothing better than the last stand with all odds against you, hell i get a good kick and a laught out it.
cheers
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My biggest problem is that i'm a polearm cav, so i won't be moving with the infantry all the time, and therefore they cant follow me. Instead, they just charge up some hill with 10 skilled archers on top instead of ie. camping the village or flanking.
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I've found that by having high athletics and getting out ahead of the group after everyone spawns, you tend to become an inadvertent leader. Can't count the number of times I've run in one direction and turned around to see most of the team heading the same way.
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I'm always trying to manipulate team if i see that situation is grim and we can be wiped out.Like i make some ladders to roofs or a bunker of siege shields and ask "please use ladder" or "we need some stupid snipas and crazy paratroopers on da house".But this almost never works.
Anyway,almost nobody will listen to you,even if you suggest a good plan.Even talking with CAPS and super simple orders like "all go left..left is like right ,but to the left" doesn't work..I think it's because half of playing people here are chineese bots and they just don't know such complicated english words.But maybe if u say to them "defend cookies in that boat",or "kill em all cause they stole our cookies" will work.
If u really want that friendly humanoids would listen to you and your orders for sure,the only way is to speak with them in Raspberry Language.
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I've tried to organize people in Siege defense lately, to no avail. Typically, most siege maps have a choke point near the flag, and defense will generally win if everyone goes to that choke point immediately. Yet people insist on dying on the walls, then we lose because there are 3 people at the choke point.
People would rather participate in the action 30 seconds sooner than win the round.
I've found that attackers are much more willing to organize in siege, which is why attackers win 75% of the time. Something about being on the defense team makes people stupider I guess.
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Good topic. I wish people played more tactically.
A bit OT but these are some things that really annoys me sometimes:
- You are on a scattered team vs an enemy that sticks close together keeping their formation. When this happens you almost always lose, no matter if you alone kill half their team.
- Your team consists of raging zombies (with no thoughts of counter tactics that just charges the enemy, even though it means attacking a bunch of archers on a roof without having shields).
You tell them to retreat / stand back and counter camp but they don't listen. What could have been an easy win turns into a certain loss...
- Almost everyone on your team have an X5. But instead of (for example) camping spawn for some minutes (enjoying the reward that the multiplier gives you) they all just rush the enemy.
The bigger the server, the more everyone is affected by this bot / zombie behaviour.
It's quite interesting that the same behaviour is repeated on every map. The fights always take place at the same places. Both teams almost always rushes the center of the map.
Have you ever asked yourself why you and your team are running in the direction you do? Is it good? If it's not, why do you do it?
Just step forward and take command. If your tactics are succesful more people will follow. A good individual score helps but is not neccessary.
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Phew wrote:
I've tried to organize people in Siege defense lately, to no avail. Typically, most siege maps have a choke point near the flag, and defense will generally win if everyone goes to that choke point immediately. Yet people insist on dying on the walls, then we lose because there are 3 people at the choke point.
Totally agree , eventhough the enemy is at the flag, people tend to ignore this, to get up on the walls :?
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This topic should be stickied just for the title.
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Ah, I see you guys enjoy the discussion.
Very good tips there, keep it up.
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A good tip for Siege defense is to always tell your team what the enemy is doing if you are the only (or one of the only) people witnessing thier master plan unfold. You see/hear 5+ guys hitting the back door you all caps 'SOME AT BACKDOOR, NEED HELP' you don't stand there and try to hit them through the door with your game mechanic abusing reach 130+ sword/axe/whatever of doom and you definately don't wait for them to chop down the door and defend it yourself and hope the rest of the team notices.
Your team needs up to the minute status updates on what is happening at each of the major locations such as gatehouse taken? Gate up/down? Backdoor open? Backdoor up/down? Ladders on wall in a sneaky spot? Chokepoint over-run? ONE LONE NINJA CAPPING FLAG? So they can decide where they can place themselves to defend the most effectively and remember your life is more important than anything except the flag, stay alive as long as possible and the attackers will be placed in a false sense of security due to insta respawn and 5 minutes to take the flag so they WILL go chasing kills - let them chase kills instead of the real objective, but don't get yourself killed in the process. Shielders work best for annoying the hell out of multiple people with thier autoblock + quick turning skills and may induce a little tunnel vision in enemies at the flag if they play defensively if they are stopping the atatckers from capping it. Use it try to pull them off the flag, stay far enough away to lure them out a bit but close enough to stop the flag lowering.
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Use a banner
In battles, remember to put a banner on your self, if you and your team have agreed upon a plan. Often I see
people trying to lead the crowd, but with no banner to follow, it often ends badly.
Communication
To often have I been in a shieldwall(or part in some tactic), and no communications occur. This often makes people inpatient, and
they start to charge or run away. This is why it is so vitial, to communicate with the people your leading.
If I get a group to follow me, and we make a shieldwall, I always state our next move, so the people who
follow me, knows what I plan to do.
Use voice commands
These are underrated. You can lead your entire team, only by voicecommands, so use them. Tell people when to follow you,
hold or charge. Use these commands in combination with team chat, and it'll work wonders.
Input
If you get a group of people to follow you, ask for their opinions while moving, or waiting for the enemy. This
makes them feel part of the decisions, and this makes them want to follow you again.
Aftermath
Whenever a plan works/fail, comment on it in team chat. If the plan failed, try to improve it with your team.
If I lead some people, and it fails gruesomely, I tend to make a joke out of it like, "Ah, that charge was a bad call",
and most of the time, people comes with input, on how we could win the next round.
Stop spamming voice commands
I often see people spamming commands like charge, and other spams the hold command. This makes people confused,
and often leads to a loss. If your not leading, try to keep your voice commands to a minimume, only use the commands
like "infantry incoming", as this can help the leader.
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I once managed to get all the teams cavalry (Apart from 1 or 2) following me on an open plains map. And somebody else got the infantry to make a shield wall.
I simply put a flag on my head and said something along the lines of 'Cavalry follow me!'
The infantry guy also used flags.
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Quick question:
How do you put a flag on yourself? Also, is the flag random, or you can decide.
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First assign yourself to a battelion, press "P". When this is down, look down, and press F1 one of two times, this way you'll get a banner.
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First assign yourself to a battelion, press "P". When this is down, look down, and press F1 one of two times, this way you'll get a banner.
Cheers