cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Greziz on January 17, 2011, 09:31:17 pm
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Ok I have to say First Xbow fire 1 shot to a competent archers 3-5 arrows if your using the end teir xbow. Now couple this with the fact that reloading in the open is begging to get killed as you can't move. God forbid they also not come over to your cover to ream you as you load. I think this should mean Xbow should have either its damage back or maybe a small buff to speed. I know you all say it is a free weapon yes that is one of its benefits one of its other lesser known benefits is it can peirce shields this is based on Damage. The peirce rate was fairly rare much less common than say knockdown. I would be eternally Grateful as one of the dedicated xbowman to get atleast 80 peirce from my siege xbow or perhaps a buff in the shield peirce catagory thus giving my xbow a slight purpose vs the unholy scourge of throwing and the very balanced but still powerful Archery, I am feeling like the beaten red headed step child of ranged combat. Also to anyone who says WPF is worthless for an xbow note that 125 wpf almost doubles your attack speed with one and greatly increases accuracy. So it is worth it. I know you all hated it because people used it like a side arm but frankly I think they have all figured out that throwing is a far superior sidearm and have been using that instead. This is a plea from a Dagger wielding xbow man please allow my xbow to once again get more kills than my dagger.
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That's exactly why you dont reload a crossbow out in the open. That's the whole point. When archering I always have a little bit of smile in my soul when I see some dummy reloading their xbow in the open.
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They didnt need to nerf xbows for damage. maybe they should add skill to xbows instead with each skill pioint adding 8% damage like throwing or archery. Would be better balance.
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I actually like to reload out in the open sometimes, just to test the accuracy of/taunt the enemy archers. It's surprising how many miss.
Damage or speed would be a welcomed buff. Lowering both and increasing the prices was overkill for sure.
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I was saying that loading out in the open is impossible thus a supreme drawback. Loading an xbow in the open is absolute suicide so that automatically limits sane xbow positions they have to be lurking near cover. Where as archers and throwers just lock and load on the run.
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You know what I would be perfectly fine with having a skill that increased my Xbow damage I would stack the jesus outta that and 1shot plates through a shield. Seriously! The Xbow peirces shields when it does enough dmg like a crush through. I don't think it really needs a skill I think it just needs to have its damage brought back up to a lvl worth using again. I like the Xbow because it lets be be a more effective melee hybrid I can save a few points to get more powerstrike with while still investing wpf in my xbow This allows me to not only feel cool with my xbow and fire my xbow much faster than 0 wpf assclowns it lets me be a decent melee nuiscance in a pinch. and I just use a dagger.
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I dont like xbow atm either. :(
needs to be way more accurate to compensate poor range (ie bad arc/short flight time), and slow reload. with bow you may not be more accurate but you can counter this by arrow spam. on xbow you spend so long just reloading and missing. even the lighter xbows are still way slow and just as inaccurate, and then when you do land a lucky hit you get no kill.
even if damage is reduced, I dont care I just want it to be more like native so I can get headshots with skill at mid range instead of it being mostly random if I hit. I want it to be more skill, less luck. like in native but not quite so powerful.
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They didnt need to nerf xbows for damage....
I disagree. With the new lower tier armors, the 60+ PIERCE damage the Siege xbow does is good enough. The Xbows are great as they are now. I get killed by them, but not 24/7.
EDIT: Oh, I misunderstood your suggestion.
I agree with the second part of your post ^^, but the xbow damage was way too high before.
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They didnt need to nerf xbows for damage. maybe they should add skill to xbows instead with each skill pioint adding 8% damage like throwing or archery. Would be better balance.
X10
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X-bow repair is way too costly for the effect you get from the weapon.
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the cost really doesn't bother me its just the accuracy.
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I agree with the OP. I think buffing siege Xbow damage to 80-85 would be a happy medium between pre-patch, and post-patch.
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Everybody needs some love, crossbows are fine :)
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The Sniper X-Bow is definitely broken in so much that it serves no purpose in a fluid battle. Almost nobody uses it regularly because the reload is simply too slow for it to be more than situational, and even during sieges it's often better to get 3 shots off with a crossbow than 2 with a sniper crossbow. We're really talking about its usefulness existing only for people who use x-bows at extreme ranges like FF_GeorgeWashington when he camps a corner of the map.
A reduction in price for the sniper x-bow to make it a reasonable alternative to crossbow would be nice. Reducing cost to 13k or so would be a good start, also reduce heavy crossbow to about 10k to leave a niche or it.
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That's exactly why you dont reload a crossbow out in the open. That's the whole point. When archering I always have a little bit of smile in my soul when I see some dummy reloading their xbow in the open.
If you go behind some cover to reload there is good chance you'll get yourself kickpolled for hiding by certain members of this idiotic community. :wink:
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I'm having both an archer and crossbowman - with the archers being a few levels higher - I must say the crossbow character seems more powerful. The rate of fire is not that far apart as it was pre-patch(big). The higher accuracy(better due damage nerf) and the piercing damage type make a big difference. With the presence of cover the crossbowman is alot stronger.
As an archer, who got further nerfed with the newest patch(211), I have to pick lesser armored targets because of cut damage. The shot speed is lower now compared to crossbows, so I have to deal with the more bend trajectory. Furthermore one big side-effect of the crossbow reloading process is that the average crossbowman has a better awareness of his surroundings than the archer. Being able to hold his aim steadily allows him to use cover more effectively compared to an archer, who has can't delay his shots without massive loss of precision.
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I'm having both an archer and crossbowman - with the archers being a few levels higher - I must say the crossbow character seems more powerful.
Sorry Paul, but if you're being serious and not trolling here, then I'd have to say you're doing it wrong. In heavy armor (cuir bouilli over mail + gauntlets), there are archers who 2-shot me. Since it also takes 2 shots from a siege xbow to kill me, I'd say advantage bow, since it is much easier for the bowman to shoot me twice than it would be for the xbowman.
If I get hit by an xbow bolt, I will head for cover immediately until I know where it's coming from. Which means that with slow reload times of xbows, landing a second shot on someone is nearly impossible unless that person is a complete moron.
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I doubt the 2 hit claim - unless it's at least 1 headshot or a PD 10 build (aka Blind Bowman). I think you are doing it wrong.
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I hope you realize with the new bow changes powerdraw is INCREASING ACCURACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I 100% agree with OP, ive been attempting to use a pure crossbow build and it's not even close to being a viable option. The innaccuracy is atrocious, im using a siege crossbow and it is an absolute joke. The fact that it is incredibly inaccurate, an extremely lengthy reload time, AND takes more then one hit means an extremely useless weapon.
My suggestions for making crossbow builds more viable it to first of all, add some extra requirement that prevents melee builds from taking it as a secondary weapon (Is it possible to add a certain amount of crossbow proficency to a weapon's requirements?). Second, either reduce the reload time significantly, OR increase the accuracy and damage. I mean shouldn't a "Sniper" crossbow be able to kill someone in one hit? Considering shields/zigzagging practically counters everything but a lucky shot I would say it's perfectly balanced.
Crossbows can't be used at range due to accuracy, crossbows can't be used at close range due to lack of damage, and medium range is pure luck. Crossbows VS an archer...WITH the crossbow being used behind cover, the archer STILL controls the fight because he can choose when to shoot while the crossbow simply hopes to get lucky with his one shot every 15 seconds.
So to sum it up..
-Make crossbows a primary weapon (Increasing it's requirements), NOT a secondary
-Reduce reload time, OR increase damage and accuracy
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The only thing really needed is to increase crossbow's shoot speed so the bolts will fly much farther and faster. Right now the arcs for crossbows are really weird and insane. With the speed of crossbows you are trying to make them long-range weapons, but then again the shoot speed is so poor the crosshair has to be way high to shoot a person, because of the messed up arc.
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I hope you realize with the new bow changes powerdraw is INCREASING ACCURACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
REALLY?!
Can someone confirm this?
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I 100% agree with OP, ive been attempting to use a pure crossbow build and it's not even close to being a viable option. The innaccuracy is atrocious, im using a siege crossbow and it is an absolute joke. The fact that it is incredibly inaccurate, an extremely lengthy reload time, AND takes more then one hit means an extremely useless weapon.
What. One of my alts has a heavy crossbow (regular one). It's accurate enough for medium distance shooting.
My suggestions for making crossbow builds more viable it to first of all, add some extra requirement that prevents melee builds from taking it as a secondary weapon
Upkeep. A sniper+steel bolts is somewhere in the league of almost 20K. That's a hell of a lot to pay for a secondary weapon... for the same price and a tad extra you could upkeep transitional armor, for instance.
Second, either reduce the reload time significantly, OR increase the accuracy and damage. I mean shouldn't a "Sniper" crossbow be able to kill someone in one hit? Considering shields/zigzagging practically counters everything but a lucky shot I would say it's perfectly balanced.
- It's fairly accurate
- It's quite damaging, and no, killing just about everyone in one hit would be bad.
Learn to aim. Shooting people who've obviously spotted you and are zigzaging is doing it wrong.
The only thing really needed is to increase crossbow's shoot speed so the bolts will fly much farther and faster. Right now the arcs for crossbows are really weird and insane. With the speed of crossbows you are trying to make them long-range weapons, but then again the shoot speed is so poor the crosshair has to be way high to shoot a person, because of the messed up arc.
It's not messed up. It has significant drop, that's it - but it's fairly predictable. Of course hitting moving targets at long range is tricky, but I hope you're not suggesting that it should be easy to do (why?). It is fairly easy to hit people with it mid-range, where with good cover the crossbow is excellent.
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What. One of my alts has a heavy crossbow (regular one). It's accurate enough for medium distance shooting.
Upkeep. A sniper+steel bolts is somewhere in the league of almost 20K. That's a hell of a lot to pay for a secondary weapon... for the same price and a tad extra you could upkeep transitional armor, for instance.
- It's fairly accurate
- It's quite damaging, and no, killing just about everyone in one hit would be bad.
Learn to aim. Shooting people who've obviously spotted you and are zigzaging is doing it wrong.
It's not messed up. It has significant drop, that's it - but it's fairly predictable. Of course hitting moving targets at long range is tricky, but I hope you're not suggesting that it should be easy to do (why?). It is fairly easy to hit people with it mid-range, where with good cover the crossbow is excellent.
A sniper crossbow's aim is trash and the spread of a sniper xbow shot is significant enough to make it impossible to actually snipe which is obviously its intended purpose with a 10 second reload time.
And the reason I brought up xbows being used as a secondary weapon is because most people use the cheaper (5kish) light crossbow as one, which means it cant be super powerful as it only requires strength, this punishes dedicated xbow users, xbows should have more requirements to make it used by a dedicated class but the weapons should also receive a significant improvement
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@Up
Indeed.
Maybe something a bit silly?
Crossbow wielding? (mastery is already used) It would be just used as req for xbows, or if chadz want it would faster reload? And it would require 4 str/point.
Mixed with xbow stats buff would be great!
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A sniper crossbow's aim is trash and the spread of a sniper xbow shot is significant enough to make it impossible to actually snipe which is obviously its intended purpose with a 10 second reload time.
Learn to aim. Seriously.
And the reason I brought up xbows being used as a secondary weapon is because most people use the cheaper (5kish) light crossbow as one, which means it cant be super powerful as it only requires strength, this punishes dedicated xbow users, xbows should have more requirements to make it used by a dedicated class but the weapons should also receive a significant improvement
I think what you want is a rifle (which a crossbow isn't, really). There are other games and even warband mods which feature rifles.
By the way, a lot of people would want to play a rifleman then.
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Learn to aim. Seriously.
I think what you want is a rifle (which a crossbow isn't, really). There are other games and even warband mods which feature rifles.
By the way, a lot of people would want to play a rifleman then.
Stop undermining what I have to say by telling me the typical "LRN2PLAYNUB". There is such thing as unbalance in this game, and crossbows just happen to be one of the underpowered weapons. And what the heck, really dude? Where did I ever say I want a rifle. I never said to remove gravity or reload time. A sniper crossbow with a 10 second reload time should be accurate, I never said I couldn't hit things at close range, and considering you're the one with the alt and I'm the one with the main who has a crossbow, go try it out a bit more buddy, Especially the Sniper crossbow.
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I doubt the 2 hit claim - unless it's at least 1 headshot or a PD 10 build (aka Blind Bowman). I think you are doing it wrong.
I think the archers who have even PD7 are rare. I went with 15/24 PD5 and cant 2 hit mail, much less plate. :P
The archers I know who DID go to PD7 couldn't hit much with the best bows, they had to drop down.
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Stop undermining what I have to say by telling me the typical "LRN2PLAYNUB". There is such thing as unbalance in this game, and crossbows just happen to be one of the underpowered weapons. And what the heck, really dude? Where did I ever say I want a rifle. I never said to remove gravity or reload time. A sniper crossbow with a 10 second reload time should be accurate, I never said I couldn't hit things at close range, and considering you're the one with the alt and I'm the one with the main who has a crossbow, go try it out a bit more buddy, Especially the Sniper crossbow.
I have no problem with picking off galloping HA's at distance with the sniper xbow. Given its slow delay, it is far more accurate and much more deadly than a bow.
No buff.
The only argument you might make would be in regards to a dedicated xbow build. Yes, that would be a severely limited class. A few have tried it, but it really isn't viable currently, and I don't see much that will change that. Certainly, buffing it so that 2h spamming tincans also have a super accurate 1 hit 1 kill ranged weapon on their backs is not the answer.
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Repeating FTW
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Cross bows are fine imo. I use a heavy xbow at 107 wpf and I like what it does for the investment I made. Slow projectile speed is alright since now archers got it too.. only thing I would like to see is bigger impact on reloading speed with wpf invested :D.
Too bad the price is still so high my only concern is that these prices will reflect unto strategus and I will be with out an xbow =/
Give us passiv shields! then I will actually use a board shield like a true passive crossbow men!! I beg you chadz....add...this...shit!!!
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I 100% agree with OP...
No, you don't. I have two points to make.
First, you resurrected an old thread that no longer applies, as xbows have been altered since the OP first made this post.
Second, xbows are now balanced against heirlooming. If you heirloom a sniper xbow and steel bolts 3 times each, you will have something close to what the sniper xbow did pre-patch. This is acceptable, imo, since having a lot of wpf makes reload time on the sniper xbow bearable, and much better than it was pre-patch. This is also a way to limit melee people from having the one-shot sniper xbow so easily, since a melee character is less likely to focus on heirlooming xbow + bolts.
Is it a difficult, time-consuming process to be a dedicated xbowman who is able to snipe people with 1 shot? Sure.
However, the payoff is that unlike a dedicated archer, a dedicated xbowman can more easily be competent in melee. OR, if you didn't want to participate in melee at all, a dedicated xbowman could have higher athletics than an archer, being able to outrun pretty much anyone not on horseback.
Just a quick build off the top of my head:
Level 30, STR: 14, AGI: 27
Ironflesh: 1
Athletics: 9
Weapon Master: 9
181 xbow proficiency
ADHD Version: Xbows are ok now.
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No, you don't. I am the OP, and I don't agree with you. I have two points to make.
First, you resurrected an old thread that no longer applies, as xbows have been altered since I first made this post.
Second, xbows are now balanced against heirlooming. If you heirloom a sniper xbow and steel bolts 3 times each, you will have something close to what the sniper xbow did pre-patch. This is acceptable, imo, since having a lot of wpf makes reload time on the sniper xbow bearable, and much better than it was pre-patch. This is also a way to limit melee people from having the one-shot sniper xbow so easily, since a melee character is less likely to focus on heirlooming xbow + bolts.
Is it a difficult, time-consuming process to be a dedicated xbowman who is able to snipe people with 1 shot? Sure.
However, the payoff is that unlike a dedicated archer, a dedicated xbowman can more easily be competent in melee. OR, if you didn't want to participate in melee at all, a dedicated xbowman could have higher athletics than an archer, being able to outrun pretty much anyone not on horseback.
Just a quick build off the top of my head:
Level 30, STR: 14, AGI: 27
Ironflesh: 1
Athletics: 9
Weapon Master: 9
181 xbow proficiency
ADHD Version: Xbows are ok now.
Well considering the thread was nine days old I supposed people didn't want a new one and sorry about the 100% agree thing. Maybe if people would read my actual suggestion instead of just seeing the "Buff crossbows" part of it they'd understand. I'll put it in bold caps so people will read it this time.
-MAKE CROSSBOWS HAVE MORE REQUIREMENTS (NAMELY THE SNIPER CROSSBOW)
-MAKE THEM A VIABLE OPTION FOR A DEDICATED CLASS
-BY GIVING THEM MORE REQUIREMENTS THE 2H SPAMMERS NO LONGER CARRY THEM AS A SECONDARY WEAPON AND THE FEW DEDICATED CROSSBOWMEN DON'T GET PUNISHED.
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Crossbows haven't changed since I made this post the siege xbow still performs the same shitty 75 dmg. or was it 70 either way both are fucken trash for what it should be doing with its price I Like that the price is expensive fuck double it so a dedicated xbow can exist just bring the damage back up if a tin can wants to tote around a fucken side arm that costs more than his armor let him it is his fucken money and he will be poor soon.
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More requirements? Haha.
Crossbows were designed for the battle-retarded in the Medieval Era.
You pulled back a string and pulled a lever. Is that too hard?
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If you take a look at your ammo...
Steel Bolts
weight 2.5
weapon length 63
thrust damage 8,pierce
max ammo 1
I believe it was 3 pierce pre-ninja buff. So an extra 5 dmg is quite nice considering most weapon changes involves +/- 1
And if you're using normal bolts, you're an idiot.
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I'm using a double-heirloomed sniper xbow, with 150 wpf. With my steel bolts, the combined damage is supposed to be 91 pierce. I don't know exactly how the mechanics work, but I'm only 1-shotting people in light armor with that damage. Pretty much all others take 2 shots, unless they've been damaged before I hit them.
For reference, however, I did some testing against someone with 21 strength and 4 IF in milanese armor. Shots to the body from nearly point blank did a little less than half their health.
We did some further testing, with other builds and armors. We determined that currently, 40 armor is about the threshold between 1-shotting someone, and having to shoot them twice with my current xbow/bolts from close range.
I think the damage on xbows is fine at this point. Dedicated xbowmen should heirloom their xbow. The only change I think could help xbows not suck so much is to give them a slight buff to the projectile speed, so that they don't lose so much damage at short-medium range.
EDIT: Please note that this opinion may change if I am not satisfied with the xbows damage output after triple-heirlooming the xbow + 3x heirloomed bolts.
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Crossbows will be asbsolutely fine as soon as they nerf throwing weapons.
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Theorycrafting put aside, I'd say that the scoreboard correctly reflects the power of crossbowmen.
And by that I mean consistency, not getting to top5 once in 5 rounds.
(I typed a bigger post but I think this sums it up. Otherwise people would debate points and theorycraft while reality looks differently.)
ps: And just to clarify, I don't mean that xbows are weak, just that they're too situational to be worthwhile when dedicated, as a primary character someone is playing. And they seem better in smaller, organized groups. Public mayhem that usually occurs on servers with mob fights.. they just seem to be worse than anything else in typical crpg scenario.
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Crossbows dont work wel because they are slow and don't get an accuracy increase in return.
Buffing speed would be overpowered with that damage, buffing accuracy would be better imo.
Or just revert back to the old situation, of native, but tweaked ofc.
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I find accuracy to be fine at least with Heavy Crossbow.
Can't compare with post-patch archer though, but I wouldn't want accuracy to increase.
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Crossbows will be asbsolutely fine as soon as they nerf throwing weapons.
assuming they do
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assuming they do
they do.
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In my opinion xbows are fine and there is no reason to change their statistics. I play as crossbowman and my well made sniper crossbow is deadly. After patch there's a lot of fun because they are much more accurate than before and there is no problem to headshot someone and a lot of people (more than half) are dead after one shot in chest
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Theorycrafting put aside, I'd say that the scoreboard correctly reflects the power of crossbowmen.
And by that I mean consistency, not getting to top5 once in 5 rounds.
Sounds good, people getting to the top with just a ranged weapon would, well, prompt everyone to go for one.
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More requirements? Haha.
Crossbows were designed for the battle-retarded in the Medieval Era.
You pulled back a string and pulled a lever. Is that too hard?
First off, using real life analogies for game balance is absolutely fail. That's exactly like saying "How hard is it to notch an arrow and pull the string back?". The reason crossbows should have more requirements is because it allows them to be buffed without the hybrid classes having access to them.
In my honest opinion, its not the damage that plagues the crossbow, its the incredibly long reload time (Now you may say, use the light crossbow! But even it's reload time in proportion to it's damage is rather poor). Heroin was talking about how anything above 40 armor takes 2 shots from his double heirloomed sniper xbow. This is perfectly fine, but paired with an incredibly long reload time and a chance to miss which results in most likely NOT scoring a kill which is fine FOR A HYBRID CLASS, not a dedicated crossbowman. The process of aiming..firing..reloading..aiming..firing with a sniper crossbow takes close to 20 seconds, to further continue, shields completely negate crossbows (Which they should, its one of their main counters).
Crossbows (Especially the sniper crossbow) with added requirements that a hybrid can't effectively reach paired with a decreased reloading time would probably make a dedicated crossbow class a far more viable option.
Sounds good, people getting to the top with just a ranged weapon would, well, prompt everyone to go for one.
Couldn't you say the same about a 2H sword or ANY other weapon, I'm not sure why ranged classes should be punished and not have the same chance to be succeeded with.
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You've never tried to shoot a bow have you? it's pretty difficult lol
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Since xbow's don't need skill points investment they lend themselves very well to hybrid builds. At least 100 wpf and you're good to go. A truly dedicated xbowman imo is more of a just for fun build than something really effective.
The only problem I have with xbow's is the massive drop off of dmg when shooting at range.
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The only problem I have with xbow's is the massive drop off of dmg when shooting at range.
Agreed.
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shields completely negate crossbows (Which they should, its one of their main counters).
Actually, one of the key things that made crossbows different from bows: shield penetration.
In Native, it works fine. In cRPG, it does not. Everyone has huscarl shield since it's affordable. Or some other shield that is simply too strong. So crossbow penetration is something I never see in cRPG (but correct me if I'm wrong). I quite liked this feature, it was fun.
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Back when the sniper xbow did 100 dmg you would occasionally pierce the mighty huscarl it was rare but if you masterworked your xbow like I used to have with alot of wpf it seemed to happen about 1 outta 3 tries for me. Now I am lucky if I pierce the lowly 1-2 skill point shields.
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nvm
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In my opinion xbows are fine and there is no reason to change their statistics. I play as crossbowman and my well made sniper crossbow is deadly. After patch there's a lot of fun because they are much more accurate than before and there is no problem to headshot someone and a lot of people (more than half) are dead after one shot in chest
This won't hold up to anyone with a decent amount of iron flesh and armor. One-shotting level 1-15's is one thing. But as for my character, who is a dedicated Crossbowoman with 150 WPF and using a well-made sniper Xbow with steel bolts, fighting people around my level and doing what you're describing is a bit unrealistic; especially with as many hybrid throwers as there are now. Also, if you don't have at least 130+ WPF in XBOW don't expect to hit anything that's not directly in front of you or a good distance away from you which is probably one of the most frustrating things in the world if you're using a sniper bow. It also doesn't even stand close to throwing right now.
If not a ridiculous distance away(which greatly drops off the damage), i'm lucky if I get two shots off in battle(assuming the enemy won't come directly after me,if they do, it's one shot and then to melee mode or keep running away until they lose interest.) even then, at very close range,a thrower with a decent amount of PT/ items like jarids can match me(if not out do me) in damage. Did I mention that they can jump and throw with a good amount of accuracy as well? Lets also not forget that many of those higher level items such as jarids,throwing lances and throwing spears all get bonuses against shields. Also, the top level throwing item is nearly half the price of the top crossbow. Finally, lets not forget the fact that they can use shields while throwing. Given all of this, I rhetorically ask what on earth makes crossbows seem like a practical or even smart alternative to any semi-serious player? In fact, were it not for the fact that heirlooming the sniper bow brings it close to it's pre-patch stats, i'd probably follow suit and go with throwing. Frankly, i'd be ok with the way bows/crossbows are now if throwing was brought back into check a bit. As they are now, crossbows are impractical in most scenarios unless the player really knows what they are doing, and even then an experienced thrower will usually best them.
I say either show the bow some love, or bring throwing down a bit.
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Crossbows won't suddenly become good even if you totally remove throwing. I fail to see the connection. It will only decrease diversity like we had months ago so we'll have archers.. and mmm that's it for ranged (throwing lance anime users are now rare because of upkeep).
Crossbow has no niche right now (except roleplay). I can't think of a single situation where I'd want a crossbowman in my team instead of something else.
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Make PT decrease or do nothing for accuracy. The 0 wpf throwers are just basically enjoying the pre-patch crossbow with 10x the shoot speed.
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At least they need to fix the stupid delay bug, I hate it when that happens!
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I want a close range heavy sidearm that requires preparation.
Maybe make the sniper/siege reload for longer, do more damage, start out less accurate and perhaps weigh more.
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Crossbows won't suddenly become good even if you totally remove throwing. I fail to see the connection. It will only decrease diversity like we had months ago so we'll have archers.. and mmm that's it for ranged (throwing lance anime users are now rare because of upkeep).
Crossbow has no niche right now (except roleplay). I can't think of a single situation where I'd want a crossbowman in my team instead of something else.
You actually hit on the connection I was talking about perfectly. Throwing makes crossbows and even bows in many cases impractical. If they nerfed throwing, they(crossbows)wouldn't become good or godlike like they were before. I don't want that at all, but one ranged alternative shouldn't totally make the other two useless. We saw a similar thing before back with crossbows pre-patch, and that bothered me alot. I don't want throwing nerfed into oblivion, but when a guy who's 20 feet away can do just as much damage from one throwing spear while jumping as a sniper crossbow from the same range, something is wrong; terribly,terribly wrong.
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I agree that range of some throws is way too long. As a matter of fact I brought that out months ago, and when I do kill at such range I make "Olympic throw!" comment in game chat ;) The fact that throwing weapon cause higher damage than siege crossbow, is also sad.
But you're missing one thing: throwing is more fun. It's more dynamic. It should be natural weapon for melee character. Not bow or xbow as a backup. In this patch at least that works as intended. In previous patch, infantry had xbows as a backup weapon, and throwing was usually present in the form of anime-lance. A melee player with throwing is still a melee player. A melee player with xbow turns into xbowmen.
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Crossbow prices NEEDS to go down! 593 upkeep from the heavy crossbow is too much add on 100 from steel bolts 1 or 2 a weapon and armour it's costing too much for dedicated crossbowmen like my alt and now wpf means something not like before and it's damage is no longer OP.
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Well seeing Dave play I guess xbows are fine.. although still not my cup of tea. He does kill a lot in melee too though, not sure what the score would be if that is subtracted.
The reason why I don't want xbows stronger is Strategus. Ranged is going to be very strong there as usual.
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Well seeing Dave play I guess xbows are fine.. although still not my cup of tea. He does kill a lot in melee too though, not sure what the score would be if that is subtracted.
The reason why I don't want xbows stronger is Strategus. Ranged is going to be very strong there as usual.
I say leave it the way it is now, but throwing needs to be checked a bit. I don't want to repeat myself as I think we are in agreement for the most part!
But to answer your question, even with primary crossbow builds, the melee weapon will usually end up being either 1/3 or 1/2 of your kills. This isn't the case in siege really, but in battle it totally is for me at least. Depending on the bow you use, having just a crossbow won't work nearly as well as a pure throwing build like FF_George_Washington or Templar_Damugger
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On a completely unrelated note, is there a way to remove posts once you posted them? I can't seem to figure out how.
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On a completely unrelated note, is there a way to remove posts once you posted them? I can't seem to figure out how.
There's no way.
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is it true that the rain affect to xbow? and what about snow?
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is it true that the rain affect to xbow? and what about snow?
Rain makes xbows much worse. It's one of the reasons I dislike xbows. They are the only weapon to be affected by weather and never in positive way.
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do you have any stats of how worse it can be? is it only rain or even is snow?