cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Michael on January 17, 2011, 01:57:44 pm

Title: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Michael on January 17, 2011, 01:57:44 pm
(click to show/hide)

Well, odd but the fun came back by simply being present when on that one village map, a Druzhina mob of 10, 15 players, all with the same banner and the new nice Druzhina armors marched up the right flank, broke the enemys line and crushed the rest. Looked awesome, really epic, was fun.

I have noticed small groups of Searaiders, Roses, and Mercs before, and it always looks so cool when they wear uniforms and stick together as a team, as a small army in the army. 

Unfortunately, there is auto-balance.

I have checked it in the admin panel, auto-balance based on banner seems to be on, but still, when I press tab some Mercs in team a, rest in team b, all the time.

I would like it more when the banner balance was really really strict, that means, to put it very simple, same banner, ALWAYS in the same team.

I am not even in a serious clan, and when its already fun for me to watch, I think its even more fun for those who are in a clan when they can play together with their mates.


Before the patch, this wasnt possible, because the average Merc was 20 levels above the average average player, what would lead to an almost secure victory if all Mercs were in one team.

Now, after the patch, even a casual player can reach level 30 in a few weeks.

Some days ago, I think it was EU2, only a few people, 8 vs 8 or something, and 5 or 6 Mercs in one team, and we knicked them.

So there is no valid argument left against allowing clan-members play together in one team.


Please balance it this way:

Same banner, same team , always.


Balance will work perfectly, like archers feed themselves.
Insecure people/ bad players will fly the banner of clans of a good reputation, and bring them down to an average level. =)


One more thing: Can we have pikes with flags?
When I block right with pike, and march forward, a group of pikemen would already look really cool, but how epic it was when you imagine a group of soldiers, all wearing same uniform and one of them, one guy, one standard-bearer, does a raised right block with a pike, THEIR banner on his pike, like their very own Oriflamme, marching against the enemy. This wouldnt work for Ninjas, lol, but for regular troops, you coward are waiting for the enemy, they are on the other side of the hill in snowy village for example, and the first thing you see is the Druzhina banner, next the Mercs banner, and all you wanna do is run.....................lol epic 
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: foxlockbox on January 17, 2011, 02:11:39 pm
Anyone could swap to a merc banner and reap the benefits?  :|
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: FICO on January 17, 2011, 02:24:35 pm
you can, but imagine how the rest of players would perceive you?

however, good idea, Michael, but i'd recommend to have pike with and pike without banner available for buying, so you can choose
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: weight on January 17, 2011, 02:37:08 pm
Quote from: foxlockbox on January 17, 2011, 02:11:39 pm
Anyone could swap to a merc banner and reap the benefits?  :|
Michael answered that already
Quote
Insecure people/ bad players will fly the banner of clans of a good reputation, and bring them down to an average level. =)
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Michael on January 17, 2011, 03:03:06 pm
Quote from: FICO on January 17, 2011, 02:24:35 pm
however, good idea, Michael, but i'd recommend to have pike with and pike without banner available for buying, so you can choose

Yeah, thats what I thought anyway. =)

Lets say, 5 pikemen of one clan marching together, why would they all want to have their banner in a flag on their pike anyway. Doesnt make sense.

Maybe make it that way that the pike with the flag loses 2 or 3 points in speed and damage. Something like that.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Michael on January 17, 2011, 03:11:24 pm
Quote from: weight on January 17, 2011, 02:37:08 pm
Michael answered that already


Also, when a bunch of random people, including horrible players such as myself can defeat a Merc bunch, other clans should be able to do that too.

As I said, in a few weeks everyone will have (almost) the same level. When the Merc still can own you, you cant blame it on his higher level any more, then its time to accept that he is the better player (or at least has better internet/ computer/ eyes, you messed up your build, choose wrong tactic/ weapon, whatever).

The argument, Mercs are on top of the scoreboard because they are mindless no life hardcore grinders doesnt work any more.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: AdNecrias on January 17, 2011, 03:15:19 pm
For once i agree with a Finished post.

Will I bet it'll become unbalanced ( remember the ATS always win whine comming from NA?), but hopefully clans with fight each other properly and the leechers getting mercs' banner will be an noticable handicap.

As of the pike with banner, in mm mod you got those, but i'm not sure if those are heraldic. But heraldics can be applied to shields, so maybe you could even have it take up the shield slot, just so it'd work.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Leiknir on January 17, 2011, 03:48:45 pm
Banner balance works like this:
- People join the server, no balance.
- After the first round, it gets banner balanced. Some unlucky people might end up in the enemy team, but thats rare
- After each other round, normal autobalance is used, sometimes breaking up banner squads
- If you join after the first round, you get placed in a random team

Playing most of the time with my SeaRaider squad its annoying to get balanced away, but its for the greater good.
Some days ago, eu2 was populated by ~ 8 Templars, 8 SeaRaiders and 8 Strangers and 8 randoms. For a strange reason, the team with 2 squads always won. Until one squad got broken up (poor Strangers in this case), and we had a 8-4-4 vs 8-4-4 and more balanced rounds. (numbers not accurate, was some time ago)
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: FICO on January 17, 2011, 04:34:25 pm
on pikes: if it's not possible to make them heraldic, the banners on them could be made a pennon in a basic heraldic colors
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: AdNecrias on January 17, 2011, 05:19:34 pm
Follow the red pike!  No, follow the blue pike!
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Riddaren on January 17, 2011, 05:26:40 pm
I totally agree (voted yes).
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Tristan on January 17, 2011, 05:48:05 pm
I believe a server with strict banner balance and a server without would be the best solution.

Also, as I suggested earlier, a way to limit banners to clans.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Michael on January 17, 2011, 06:16:07 pm
Do you freaks really need all those video animations? With my crappy internet connection it takes me 3 mins to load my own topic..........

On topic, also lances with flag, that would be really really awesome.


ATS wins for a simple reason. They ban all the good players on the other side. lol


On a more serious note, I wouldnt care, if I lose a few more rounds as usual, and I think most people feel the same.

What is more important? Winning 2 rounds more a day, or having fun with your clanmates?

I think most people would rather go down shoulder on shoulder with their clanmates than win cos of 2 or 3 good Mercs.

Especially once your build is finished. Who cares. Upkeep is so low, everyone (heavy cavalry, thats my fav class btw, is the only exception) can use good stuff all the time even with x1 for ages.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Olwen on January 17, 2011, 08:52:10 pm
yes for the idea but stop the trashtalk about us ^^ if you wanna claim everywhere that you can beat us easily let's organize a battle 10vs10 or 15vs15 and if you win i'll let you saying that we suck, otherwise stop this kidness, open challenge for anyone who think he can beat us btw
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Joxer on January 17, 2011, 09:47:54 pm
This pikes with banners thing has nothing to do with you riding an armored tank?  :rolleyes: Anyways I wouldn't mind a banner. Better yet a violet scarf from a pretty lady would be nice.  :twisted:
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Casimir on January 18, 2011, 12:04:51 am
But i enjoy fighting my clan mates from time to time, why would I want to be with them every fucking round?


However do love the idea of Flags, reminds me of PW mod but it needs to be done properly or it looks shite.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Michael on January 18, 2011, 12:51:32 am
Dude, you are not the brightest fellow, so your opinion doesnt mean anything to any reasonable person.

Normal people practice with their clanmates on duel server, their own server, but they want to fight side by side in battle.

Thats the whole point of a clan.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: IG_Saint on January 18, 2011, 01:03:17 am
Quote from: Michael on January 18, 2011, 12:51:32 am
Dude, you are not the brightest fellow, so your opinion doesnt mean anything to any reasonable person.

Normal people practice with their clanmates on duel server, their own server, but they want to fight side by side in battle.

Thats the whole point of a clan.

You insult the guy, say his opinion is worthless and then you come up with a statement that begins with "normal people". Sorry, but after that post I don't trust your opinion about what normal people want.

On topic, yeah I would prefer a strict banner auto-balance. As long as its done with banners anyone can change it with a couple of clicks anyway.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: AdNecrias on January 18, 2011, 01:04:14 am
I guess this last comment blew up your chances. Not that you had many from start...

Normal people like to have clans, like to fight as a team and also like to play against the guys they are talking to over TS.

Ninja'ed but it's the same point.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Casimir on January 18, 2011, 01:05:31 am
Not our clan. We enjoy the element of public competition and the challenge of fighting several clan mates at once.

I wont be drawn into an argument with you although thats what seems to be your aim so whatever man.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: EponiCo on January 18, 2011, 01:52:40 am
No, I disagree.
In theory leechers with Merc banner would balance it out, but I think it would be mostly done by experienced players, while most newbies will not understand it.
Also I like to play with Mercs or DRZ on my team, but hanging your flag whichever way the wind blows ... well, it's a proverb in german actually.  :lol:
Current teambalance works fine as far as I can see, clanmates are together often.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: RandomDude on January 18, 2011, 02:09:19 am
i always try to kill fallen guys if i see them on the enemy team more than any one else but its much more fun to be in the same team and fight together - even if it's a big fail sometimes

i would like to see autobalance by banner working but i think we should have at least 1 battle and siege server that is never balance by banner also

the other thing is that it's open for abuse by people switching faction flags so they can be on the winning side

it's not so hard to imagine people editing their chars after losing their multiplier
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Reinhardt on January 18, 2011, 03:45:51 am
Yes! There are a few points as to why not to do this, but I really do like the idea...

Perhaps a clan tag identification system for the same team?
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Michael on January 18, 2011, 03:51:33 am
I was thinking of answering your comments, but I dont have to comment every horseshit. =)

Intelligent people tend to assume that everyone is at least somehow intelligent, but obviously in this community its not the case.

And believe me, I do understand that members of particular clans dont like my idea. Noone likes to be pwned all the time.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: ManOfWar on January 18, 2011, 05:57:32 am
Quote from: Olwen on January 17, 2011, 08:52:10 pm
yes for the idea but stop the trashtalk about us ^^ if you wanna claim everywhere that you can beat us easily let's organize a battle 10vs10 or 15vs15 and if you win i'll let you saying that we suck, otherwise stop this kidness, open challenge for anyone who think he can beat us btw

I wish I could duel you with a not shitty ping olwen!
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Casimir on January 18, 2011, 09:26:37 am
As you still seem set out to offend me i will keep my post brief.

The suggestion made by randomdude is IMO the best option if this would be implimenyed as it gives non gaction members a place to go. 

Howeber i hope that the Devs do the intelligent thing and ignore you.

P.s. You will get more support with your ideas if you respond to peoples points and justify yours tather than saying everyone who disagrees with you is "horseshit"  8-)
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: FICO on January 18, 2011, 01:19:05 pm
Quote from: Michael on January 18, 2011, 03:51:33 am
Intelligent people tend to assume that everyone is at least somehow intelligent
and you assumed that that guy is not intelligent?
http://instantrimshot.com/classic/?sound=rimshot
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Penchik on January 18, 2011, 01:33:38 pm
Good idea.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Kalam on January 18, 2011, 01:37:07 pm
Quote from: ManOfWar on January 18, 2011, 05:57:32 am
I wish I could duel you with a not shitty ping olwen!

You two should fight it out in the chinese server. Or the aussie one, if it's back.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Joker86 on January 18, 2011, 01:47:07 pm
Generally I think the suggestion is okay, and clans should be enabled to play together, that's perfectly fine for me. The only problem is: the rest of the server shouldn't suffer from it. What do I mean? That the banner balanced code has its flaws:

(click to show/hide)

Banner balance need 2 functions:

1st: different clans are put into different teams. Not 2 big clans with 10 to 20 players each into ONE team, like the day before yesterday with Shogunate and DRZ. This sucks.

2nd: unless the other team also has got three players of one clan there is following equation: 3 players of one clan = 4 players in enemy team. So the clan teams have to fight bigger random teams. This is fairer for the independant players, and more of a challenge for the clan players.

If those functions don't get implemented, I am AGAINST the suggestion. If banner balance will be improved, I am totally FOR it.

Edit: if you look at the second screenshot it looks like my second suggestion is already implemented. Or is this simple "luck"?  :?
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Joxer on January 18, 2011, 02:45:01 pm
What I really hate about team stacking clans is that they have voice comms. I know for a fact that their dead tend to tip off the living about the enemies positions. That's cheating.
[Edit to add] This could be fixed if the dead view would be set to the setting that you can only view your own team and to the direction they're looking at.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: 3ABP on January 24, 2011, 11:16:37 am
Same banner, same team , always.!!!
At least turn it on (implement and turn it on) on some servers, if not on all servers.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: UrLukur on January 24, 2011, 01:55:24 pm
Problem with current banner balance is that many times two largest clans are stacked in the same team, so there is one team with all the clans and second with pubs. It sucks and need to be changed.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: bredeus on January 24, 2011, 01:59:34 pm
Last update nerfed team autobalance whatwas really great for clans.  Agree that if two large clans appear they should be in different teams.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Sir_Ironlake on January 24, 2011, 02:16:58 pm
As long as one clan is in same team, im for it. Just let people play with their clan/bannermates. Makes this game 10x better.

Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Gnjus on January 24, 2011, 02:35:43 pm
The idea with one server having the banner balance and another one without it is a good idea. Also - there is one thing we shouldn't forget, concerning the leechers, as much as i dislike seeing random people using the Mercs banner only cause they want to win so badly: most of the banners are already taken by clans (so they dont really have much choice, whatever they take is some clan's banner, more or less) plus not all use the custom banner pack.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Michael on January 24, 2011, 06:10:03 pm
Quote from: Joxer on January 18, 2011, 02:45:01 pm
What I really hate about team stacking clans is that they have voice comms. I know for a fact that their dead tend to tip off the living about the enemies positions. That's cheating.

Especially when they warn teammates that are in danger to get raped. Thats lame.


Quote
[Edit to add] This could be fixed if the dead view would be set to the setting that you can only view your own team and to the direction they're looking at.

This option you have in the admin panel.

Problem however is, at the end of the round, one guy hiding, clearly delaying the round, eventually turning it into a draw.

His teammates, lets say they have a good multiplicator, wont vote-kick him.

The other team, however,
maybe even some not so patienced admin, will kick him, even when he is not afk and trying to win the round with playing "smart".


Maybe we could try it for a while, see how it works.

But wait, actually I am retired. lol
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: AdNecrias on January 25, 2011, 05:40:28 am
Quote from: Gnjus on January 24, 2011, 02:35:43 pm
The idea with one server having the banner balance and another one without it is a good idea. Also - there is one thing we shouldn't forget, concerning the leechers, as much as i dislike seeing random people using the Mercs banner only cause they want to win so badly: most of the cool or nice looking banners are already taken by clans (so they dont really have much choice, whatever they take is some clan's banner, more or less) plus not all use the custom banner pack.

Fixed it for you. Trust me, only 1/3 tops is taken by organized clans.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Reinhardt on February 04, 2011, 03:13:43 pm
Quote from: Michael on January 24, 2011, 06:10:03 pm
Especially when they warn teammates that are in danger to get raped. Thats lame.

Yeah, but generally they only do this if they're in-game with you. If they're spectating you and warn you I would consider it cheating.

Quote from: Joxer on January 18, 2011, 02:45:01 pm
What I really hate about team stacking clans is that they have voice comms. I know for a fact that their dead tend to tip off the living about the enemies positions. That's cheating.

Not if you only use it to tell your clanmates if some retard is hiding or running, or if only one person is left. That's not cheating, it's more help to the people who actually want to play instead of having their allies run around the map looking for that one guy. Majority of players would probably tell their teammates where the last guy is on the map in order to refresh and start a new round.
Title: Re: STRICT banner auto-balance and pikes with flags
Post by: Spawny on February 04, 2011, 03:55:09 pm
We're usually spectating eachother when we're dead to laugh at our fails.
When we warn people, it's 90% of the time as stated above: to tell where that last hider is.

I'm all for a stricter banner balance, but there should be a seperate option for people who do not want to play with it.