cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Joker86 on January 15, 2011, 02:44:47 pm

Title: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Joker86 on January 15, 2011, 02:44:47 pm
Hi!

Again the title says everything: the new ladders only work in one of three or four attempts as planned. In the other cases they get stuck right after spawning in an obstacle behind you, or just in the air itself without noticeable reason. If the ladder manages to touch the object you want to lean it to, in many cases it stops 2 or 3m UNDER the top of the object, making the whole ladder completely useless!

Ladders are very important for me, as I often try to make my team use tactics, and ladders are a great help, because they magically attract players. Yesterday night we were playing this FUCKING map with the Swadian/Rhodok castle, where the defender spawn next to the inner circle of walls, the attackers spawn in front of the outer walls.  :?

I told my team after 2 lost rounds "Follow me, I know a way", I took three ladders (I need only 2, but I knew about the buggy ladders, so I went for sure), I placed the first one on the outer walls, it worked, we climbed up, then I jumped onto some roofs to place a ladder the defenders can't reach (and destroy) from the inner wall, but BOTH ladders simply stopped midair right after spawning. There was no obstacle or anything else! My plan failed although nobody has made any mistake, our team got scattered, all of us had to lose 30% life by jumping off that roof, and we won only because of the defenders getting bored and looking for us in the streets. With some luck we won the first fights, regrouped again and won the map. But this can't be explained by something else than luck. If the defenders stayed in the inner circle we would have lost without chance.

So please do something about it, change it back to pre-patch-ladders, I don't want to disappoint my team and get disgraced by shitty working ladders again.  :?
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Balton on January 15, 2011, 02:50:39 pm
Ladders should be removed, it's so annoying when you flank the opposing team and can't do anything because they have archers on roofs which you can't get to, and attacking the infantry from behind just gets you pelleted by those archers.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Gristle on January 15, 2011, 02:53:11 pm
Ladders should NOT be removed, as they promote good tactics and thinking.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Babelfish on January 15, 2011, 02:54:09 pm
Quote from: Gristle on January 15, 2011, 02:53:11 pm
Ladders should be removed, as they promote lame tactics.

There, fixed that for ya  :wink:
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Joker86 on January 15, 2011, 03:16:01 pm
I know what you mean, and partially I have the same opinion.

But I always try to use MY ladders in a fair way. Placing a ladder which is unreachable for the defender seems just fair for me on the map I described. Otherwise I wouldn't do.

And if I could decide it, I would make it bannable to destroy ladder which lead up to your position. Archers should be reachable by infantry all the time, not only at the end of the round by forcing them to jump down. I often play as infantry. I would like archers not being allowed to shoot me unless I am the last survivor  :rolleyes:

On one hand I think: make ladders undestructible. This would solve the problem of archers on unreachable rooftops. But it would create new problems, as I think it's totally okay to kill a ladder the enemy places to reach your elevated position. Also some jerks could permanently block some (or all) entrances on some maps. So this is no solution. A difficult matter, like teamkill punishment. It depends on the situation rather than on facts.  :?

But to get back to topic: if you want to fix lame ladder tactics, then please remove ladders. But keeping them with their current shitty code is just useless, and it punishes the players who are willing to sacrifice one or more weapon slots to their team.  :?
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: zagibu on January 15, 2011, 03:16:34 pm
Yeah, that they only stop INSIDE the object you want to lean it against is bullshit and has to be fixed. However, I think it's good that they can no longer freely move through obstacles during the rise. That lead to many problems, such as defenders being pushed off castle walls because some exploiter put down a ladder with his back against the wall. Also, it fixes many problematic positions, where ladders can no longer be placed.

To fix ladders in battle make them only destructible by the opposing team?
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: rustyspoon on January 15, 2011, 03:56:35 pm
Personally, I am not a fan of ladders in battle maps. I find that most people use them in bullshit ways - such as reaching places they shouldn't be allowed to go - and then destroying the ladder.

For the love of god though, please fix ladders for siege maps. There are a lot of siege maps on the NA siege server that have only 1 entrance. That coupled with the defending team spamming construction sites on that one entrance makes it impossible for attackers. Especially since the ladders don't stop at the top of the walls and instead pass through them, eventually settling somewhere in the middle of the wall. Please fix those horrible ladders.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Puppybull on January 15, 2011, 03:58:27 pm
BRING OLD LADDERS BACK TY
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Hecur on January 15, 2011, 03:58:41 pm
This happen :mrgreen:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Joker86 on January 15, 2011, 04:44:54 pm
Quote from: zagibu on January 15, 2011, 03:16:34 pm
To fix ladders in battle make them only destructible by the opposing team?

THAT'S THE SOLUTION  :shock:

Edit: btw ladderpulting is a minor issue, I think, as it gets administrated immediately in most cases.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: SquishMitten on January 15, 2011, 04:49:17 pm
Quote
To fix ladders in battle make them only destructible by the opposing team?

mite be cool

ladderpulting wont be so bad with the current xp system, it was gutting pre patch if it happened early in the round and you had to wait the round out without any gold or xp
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: The_Newer_Wind on January 15, 2011, 04:50:41 pm
I know! make ladders indestructable, but only fire bombs can destroy them!! So then people will actually have use for them!
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Ishar on January 15, 2011, 04:53:32 pm
Quote from: Hecur on January 15, 2011, 03:58:41 pm
This happen :mrgreen:

(click to show/hide)

That looks like the creepiest alien invasion ever.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Christo on January 15, 2011, 05:58:21 pm
(click to show/hide)

Yeah, I remember that one. And that map.. Scene_5 if I'm right, should be removed. It's utter garbage.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: downer on January 15, 2011, 06:01:19 pm
Ladders are pretty broken right now. It's extremely apparent in Siege as attackers. I can't recall which map, but I watched no less than a dozen ladders get place in what should have been great spots, only to have them stop inside the castle wall.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Phazey on January 15, 2011, 06:40:54 pm
The 'getting stuck backwards' and the 'sinking through' are problems i'd like to see solved.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Beans on January 15, 2011, 07:17:56 pm
I don't know what happened to ladders but they are really fucked when try to place them against walls on siege.

Maybe it has something to do with catapults being able to lower walls, because ladders seem to work ok on everything else.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Joxer on January 15, 2011, 07:23:39 pm
Deployed ladders should become like siege ladders. Undestructable and you would need some time to set them up / put them down. Also more strict limit for them.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Grey on January 15, 2011, 07:27:28 pm
Ive seen ladders get stuck, AND go thru stuff. Never been a problem for me tho, if it fails where u tried before, try rethinking what it is your doing, ladders catch on map edges and obstacles, or other ladders, they dont tend to cath on thin air very often, and are very easy to work around, they just are not idiot friendly anymore. This is a good thing.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Puppybull on January 15, 2011, 07:43:26 pm
Quote from: The_Newer_Wind on January 15, 2011, 04:50:41 pm
I know! make ladders indestructable, but only fire bombs can destroy them!! So then people will actually have use for them!
LOL GENIUS I AGREE +1!
Ok, I call myself a god but I know I'm not the best ladderer. Air is good and polepoop and tuck and the list goes on. I've been able to ladder successfully in sieges post patch, but it's hard and the ladders land in the air so my people can drop on the flag which ends up with defenders raging against me. Idk what people think but in all honesty post patch ladders suck asssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Phazey on January 15, 2011, 07:48:49 pm
Quote from: Grey on January 15, 2011, 07:27:28 pm
Ive seen ladders get stuck, AND go thru stuff. Never been a problem for me tho, if it fails where u tried before, try rethinking what it is your doing(...)

Placing the ladder at exactly the same spot can result in: 1) the ladder sinking all the way through a wall. 2) the ladder sinking partially though the wall or 3) the ladder working correctly and 'catching' on the top of the building.

"Rethinking" doesn't help when the ladders aren't reliable and consistent. I think it's a bug.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Grey on January 15, 2011, 08:29:25 pm
Quote from: Phazey on January 15, 2011, 07:48:49 pm
Placing the ladder at exactly the same spot can result in: 1) the ladder sinking all the way through a wall. 2) the ladder sinking partially though the wall or 3) the ladder working correctly and 'catching' on the top of the building.

"Rethinking" doesn't help when the ladders aren't reliable and consistent. I think it's a bug.

at EXACTLY the same spot you will get the same result. A few pixels out and you will have another effect sometimes. EXACT is not CLOSE.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: downer on January 15, 2011, 08:37:17 pm
Quote from: Grey on January 15, 2011, 08:29:25 pm
at EXACTLY the same spot you will get the same result. A few pixels out and you will have another effect sometimes. EXACT is not CLOSE.

This doesn't change the fact that ladders are broken and, more than likely, not acting as intended.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Joker86 on January 15, 2011, 08:37:35 pm
Quote from: Grey on January 15, 2011, 08:29:25 pm
at EXACTLY the same spot you will get the same result. A few pixels out and you will have another effect sometimes. EXACT is not CLOSE.

Great argument. So I have to rethink to... place the ladder always at exactly the same pixels? WHAT???  :shock:
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: zagibu on January 15, 2011, 09:05:22 pm
Sure, you're just not a skilled enough ladderer. It's the same argument as the pro spam argument: if you can't do it (or counter it) you are just a noob.

I'm so sick of people sometimes.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Tornkik on January 15, 2011, 09:08:33 pm
Quote from: The_Newer_Wind on January 15, 2011, 04:50:41 pm
I know! make ladders indestructable, but only fire bombs can destroy them!! So then people will actually have use for them!

 Seems good to me.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Grey on January 15, 2011, 09:53:20 pm
Carrying 2 firebombs will make u walk SO slow.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Tornkik on January 16, 2011, 12:34:14 am
Quote from: Grey on January 15, 2011, 09:53:20 pm
Carrying 2 firebombs will make u walk SO slow.

Oh I didn't check, are they super heavy or something?
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Dexxtaa on January 16, 2011, 01:58:15 am
Quote from: Tornkik on January 16, 2011, 12:34:14 am
Oh I didn't check, are they super heavy or something?

Heavier than siege ladders.
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: Puppybull on January 16, 2011, 04:13:58 am
It's called reverse laddering. Memorize the length of your ladder, turn around and place it at the exact spot it will get caught in. It's pretty hard even for me sometimes.
Yes it's the heaviest thing in cRPG if I'm right, but thats why it would have a purpose and would be really good! Of course they should make it as heavy as a ladder. I mean the firebombs. That really is a good idea man, really really good idea. I think it was a god given one.
Postpatch:
Ladder towers are still possible,
Ladder teleportation still possible,
Ladders get stuck in stuff,
Ladders can't be used to purposely ladderpault people.
That's pretty much it..
Title: Re: I want the old ladders back
Post by: The_Newer_Wind on January 16, 2011, 05:20:21 am
Fire bombs, are heavy, but thats the point! No ninja can run around breaking ladders at the speed of sound! So if you carry one it will make you slow but it will help your team and destroy ladders! That seems balanced.