cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: ManOfWar on January 15, 2011, 05:14:35 am

Title: Archer build
Post by: ManOfWar on January 15, 2011, 05:14:35 am
I am looking for a good archer build, one that allows me to shoot people and hurt them good but also adequatly defend myself in melee, can someone please
 help me

also is iron skin a no no?
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Gorath on January 15, 2011, 05:41:35 am
Well, I'm partial to my build on Moneyshot, but every archer is different:

Level: 30

Str: 15
Agi: 21

PS: 5
PD: 5
ATH: 7
WM: 7

Bow: 140
2her: 100

*Khergit Bow, Longsword, 2x Bodkins, Tribal Warrior, Straw Hat, Leather gloves, Leather boots*

My reticule is nice and tight, and I can 2-shot most everyone in mail or less, heavier armors obviously require more depending on the armor.  Headshots are lethal period and relatively easy to aim for (as much as a headshot can be expected to be easy).  Only 100 in 2her, but with the longsword and agi I'm fast enough and hit hard enough to melee fairly well.  All in all I'm pretty happy with it.
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: ManOfWar on January 15, 2011, 06:01:47 am
thanks I appreciate it
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Diablo on January 15, 2011, 06:05:32 am
To be archer, you need :

- >150 WPF in archery
- agilty 21 = 7 weapon master
- strenght 18 = 6 points powerdraw skill points to use warbow/long bow (15 for 5 strong bow, 12 for 4 khergit bow, 9 for 3, etc. etc.)

melee need WPF, ironflesh, powerstrike and ideally athletics or shield skill.

Melee archers use generaly two handed weapons or polearms to keep 2 arrows packs.
But you need to be a master in blocking.
You can use shields but they need skill points... and take arrows place in your poor inventory...

melee and archery isn't really compatible...
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Keshian on January 15, 2011, 06:26:08 am
Str 18, Agi 18, Powerdraw 6, weaponmaster 6, athletics 6, Powerstrike 6, ironflesh 5, 2 converted skill points to ability

Use a fast melee weapon (glaive, longsword, long knobbed mace, etc.) and you can do fine with 1 weapon proficiency in 2H and Polearm, put all your wpf into archer as most effective there - significant improvement in weapon shooting speed and accuracy

Use Khergit bow ideally for this build, can do okay with strong bow.

If you want to use warbow, convert your 5 Ironflesh and 1 of your powerstrike into 3 more strength and take another 1 skillpoint from power strike and put into powerdraw.

Gorath also has a good build, but i recommend a little more power draw more so you can punch through mail and plate, but if you want to put more weapon proficiency points into a secondary meele skill then his is the way to go.
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: PewPewHydralisk on January 15, 2011, 07:15:52 am
Kesh would you actually reccomend a more power draw heavy build rather than putting in more points into WPF now? I'm just trying to figure out whether I want to heriloom my khergit bow or warbow but I dont have 8 power draw, so I'm not sure how I feel about herilooming the warbow.
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Gorath on January 15, 2011, 08:37:19 am
Quote from: Diablo on January 15, 2011, 06:05:32 am
To be archer, you need :

- >150 WPF in archery

I don't really understand why some people keep saying this (before it was 200+ in the pre-patch days).  With 140 wpf in my armor and khergit bow I have a reticule like:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

*Yes I know it looks like shit, everything on lowest in dx7 on this piece of shit puter :P*
That's all the way across the arena map and players center mass are larger than the kill-zone in the reticule.  Is it some "must have" that the dots are overlapping or something?  This is, in my opinion, pretty rediculously accurate and feels more accurate than native reticules even.  So....  I guess I just don't exactly how tight of a reticule is considered "needed".

ManofWar, this is that build I posted above.  In lighter armor the reticule is smaller, with the nomad bow instead of khergit, it's even smaller.  In red tunic over mail and mail guantlets (straw hat and leather boots still) it's pretty much the same size as the image.  Just as an FYI.

Kesh, care to post your reticule in a pic?  I'm seriously curious now.
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Espu on January 15, 2011, 08:37:53 am
18/18 build with 6PD and 6WM is practically unusable with longbow. Get at least 21 agi & 7WM, perhaps even more.

If I got to respec my archer now, I would definately go with PD5 for accuracy without needing to sacrifice all mobility to skill point conversion.
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Diablo on January 15, 2011, 09:05:24 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


21 agility
18 strength

Equipement :
Warbow
Bodkin arrows x2
Long Bardiche
Black lamellar vest
Leather gloves
Khergit leather boots
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: bruce on January 15, 2011, 09:21:13 am
Here's my melee archery hybrid and the reticules, using a very strong bow:
Strength   21   
Agility   14   

Polearm   81   [3 WPF cost]
Archery   120   [6 WPF cost]

Ironflesh   5   
Power Strike   7   
Shield   0   
Athletics   4   
Riding   0   
Horse Archery   0   
Power Draw   7   
Power Throw   0   
Weapon master *   4

Reticule without armour:
(click to show/hide)

Reticule with (good) armour:
(click to show/hide)

Enough to hit at medium distances quite well, and the damage with 7 PD is very satisfying.
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Gorath on January 15, 2011, 09:31:29 am
Right on, thanks guys.
So far it seems like my 140 wpf isn't that shabby at all in terms of reticule size.
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Stokes on January 15, 2011, 09:36:00 am
Quote from: Vargas on January 15, 2011, 08:37:53 am
18/18 build with 6PD and 6WM is practically unusable with longbow. Get at least 21 agi & 7WM, perhaps even more.

If I got to respec my archer now, I would definately go with PD5 for accuracy without needing to sacrifice all mobility to skill point conversion.

Would you be willing to post screenshots of that? I'm planning on an 18/18 longbow build right now. Since PD supposedly increases accuracy, rather than decreases it, I would think that would be a good build. Also, if the Longbow doesn't work out you can always downgrade to Strong or Khergit for good accuracy and great damage with PD7.
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Diablo on January 15, 2011, 09:45:12 am
Quote from: Gorath on January 15, 2011, 09:31:29 am
Right on, thanks guys.
So far it seems like my 140 wpf isn't that shabby at all in terms of reticule size.

Your reticule size seems to me good (with your current equipment), you would test to wear better armors.

The precision of your bow depend :

- Of your WPF
- Of the total weight of your equipment

The more powerful bows needs more WPF.
More you have of WPF, more you can wear better armors without damaging your aim precision.
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Norion on January 15, 2011, 10:11:50 am
Quote from: Stokes on January 15, 2011, 09:36:00 am
Since PD supposedly increases accuracy, rather than decreases it, I would think that would be a good build.

Is this since the patch? Before PD decreased your accuracy bcs it had a penalty of WPF, so the more PD you had the LESS accurate you became, unless decreased your weight/increased your WPF in parallel with increasing PD.
Did this change to opposite with the patch?

Pls advise, it can help with my build as after the patch I did not dare to make more than 4 PD bcs of the soft cap on WPF.
 
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Stokes on January 15, 2011, 11:41:57 am
Quote from: Norion on January 15, 2011, 10:11:50 am
Is this since the patch? Before PD decreased your accuracy bcs it had a penalty of WPF, so the more PD you had the LESS accurate you became, unless decreased your weight/increased your WPF in parallel with increasing PD.
Did this change to opposite with the patch?

Pls advise, it can help with my build as after the patch I did not dare to make more than 4 PD bcs of the soft cap on WPF.
 

Apparently so. Check out this thread, especially reply 8.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,876.0.html

 Keshian basically says that due to his tests it seems PD doesn't decrease accuracy anymore. Or, at least, using a bow of lower PD than what you have makes you more accurate. So with 4PD on a Khergit bow you should be less accurate than with 5PD on a Khergit bow. This is opposite last patch.
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: zagibu on January 15, 2011, 04:26:12 pm
At level 31, you can have a 15/24 or an 18/21 build. IF can be neglected, as it only helps to keep you alive if you're wearing armor, otherwise you go down in 1 hit of a 2h or 2 hits of a 1h anyway, no matter your IF.
You can aim for 15/21, and decide later whether 15/24 or 18/21 is the better path. If you are too slow/inaccurate, do the former, or if you need more damage, do the latter.
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Keshian on January 15, 2011, 06:00:51 pm
Gorath, sorry, Ive been trying to figure out how to post pics for a while now, cant figure out how as I hit the pic button and it just puts brackets in the text and I dont have pictures online with photo bucket or anything, just on my computer.

Also, i dont know if anyone noticed but the reticule size of the person with and without armor was if not exactly the same almost exactly the same.  Heavy armor has far far less impact on wpf post-patch, especially considering it was a higher nerf pre-patch for archers compared to other classes.

Having 1 powerdraw above your bow requirement shrinks your reticule size the equivalent of roughly adding 15 wpf and it also increases the length of time to which you can hold the smaller reticules, and increases the penetration power of your arrows with armor.

I just hit level 30 last night.  Played 1 round before typing this with masterwork warbow and double heirloomed bodkin arrows and 7 pd, 6 weaponmaster all in archery (154) (8 converted skill points) and went 6-0, it is highly effective because I would say 2/3rds were one-shot kills (mostly aiming at archers - lighter armor).  The reticule doesnt stay smaller for very long at all, you have to shoot pretty much the moment the reticules reach their smaller sizes, but also slower to draw and shoot so good at long distance but if you get too close to most other archers you would face a real issue where they can shoot you over and over again disrupting your shot before completed (like a xbower trying to reload).  With only 6 powerdraw the picture of that size reticule earlier is only for 1/4 of a second or less, it goes wider reticule very very quickly.

Used my khergit bow the next round, actually enjoyed it more and got 3 kills before dying (had to shoot people twice at least), faster draw speed, but also with 7 powerdraw you hold your shot for several seconds and still get decent aim without the arrow shanking and you can shoot someone without standing still so long that you get shot in return.

The thing is using a warbow or a longbow if you want takes you almsot to level 30 before being able to use without a lot of arrow shanking wide of where you aimed and with level 30 and 8 converted skill points you reach a highly effective build.  But for the fun of using a bow up until level 30 and even after in many battle rather then siege situations, the "lesser" nomad, khergit, and strong bows are highly effective.  Also, using a warbow/longbow requires almost no deviation from a pretty specific build, whereas using a khergit you can have fun with a lot of variation like with Gorath's and Bruce's builds.  There is no wrong answer,  a lot depends on your style of play.

If you are more camping/siege style archer who doesnt move after shots then warbow may be the way to go, if you are a skirmisher and open to occasionally meleeing then khergit/strong bow would probably be better and using the extra skill pints to make you a  better melee fighter.

Hope this helps.

P.S.  If you were at all curious, my ideal archer build is 6 powerdraw with 7 weaponmaster and 7 athletics all wpf in archery using a triple heirloomed khergit bow.  Will take me quite a while to get there though.
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Food on January 15, 2011, 06:05:36 pm
I am trying out a pure strength archer as a gimmick.  It's terrible. No one try this.
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Keshian on January 15, 2011, 06:17:05 pm
Quote from: Food on January 15, 2011, 06:05:36 pm
I am trying out a pure strength archer as a gimmick.  It's terrible. No one try this.

The wpf still effects reticule size and draw speed, accuracy, etc.  The thing with powerdraw is that it seems to be more like horsearchery where the higher your powerdraw above the bow you are using the less the penalty with a significant boost with 1 above, medium boost for 2 above, 3 above slight improvement, and 4 above almost negligible improvement.  Thats a effect on accuracy and reticule size, not on wpf as you shoot same speed regardless of powerdraw.  Would love to see some patch notes.....
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Murthag on January 15, 2011, 11:10:27 pm
Okay so PD made the aim smaller? this is not clear! They should update the crpg guide!
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: TheClash on January 16, 2011, 10:34:08 am
hi guy,
after reading a lot about archery post, i think i found my answer  for my question before,
but actualy i change my mind about being a half archer melee

i'am looking for a pure archer build
Keshian please can u tell me wich template will have the most accuracy ?
i already know wich one will do the most damage, but if he is also have the best accuracy :shock:
(i use http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm (http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm) )

Level 30
Strength: 18
Agility: 21
Converted: 8
Ironflesh: 3
Athletics: 7
Power Draw: 6
Weapon Master: 7
Archery: 164

Level 30
Strength: 21
Agility: 18
Converted: 8
Ironflesh: 4
Athletics: 6
Power Draw: 7
Weapon Master: 6
Archery: 156

both using a long/war bow !

thx by advance for your advice !

TheClash.
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Mtemtko on January 16, 2011, 12:22:25 pm
Current pure archer spec:
If i manage to grind upto L32 i'll get 9WM.


Age   45 [30]
Strength   18   
Agility   25
Archery   172   
Ironflesh   0   
Power Strike   0   
Shield   0   
Athletics   1   
Riding   0   
Horse Archery   0   
Power Draw   6   
Power Throw   0   
Weapon master *   8
   
Bow:
Strong War Bow
weight 1.5
requirement 6
spd rtng 59
shoot speed 62
thrust damage 28 cut
accuracy 96

Reticule:
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

I wish i didnt convert so many points, with 1ath most of light infantry can catch up with me, and im preety much done for in melee.
Good luck with your build, dont forget ath! :/
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: TheClash on January 16, 2011, 01:49:43 pm
after some test,

atm i'am
lvl 19
12  str
15 agi
5 atlhetics
5 weaponmaster
4powerdraw
134 archery wpf

i begin to see a little diference when i test using a nomad(3pd) and a kergit(4pd) !

i'am a little bit more accurate with the nomad who need only 3 pd

but i have the same wpf...

so its good to have more pd than the requirement of your bow

...dont know if at our lvl max, better to have 8pd but not much wpf ...

thx Mtemtko for your screenshot, 172 wpf and u got only this accuracy !  :?

i want a sniper :D
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: BD_SUPERBEAST on January 17, 2011, 05:12:34 pm
Lvl 31

Str 15
Agi 24

Wpf : 160 archery.
         70   2h (aprox,maybe more,im still lvl 30 in my archer alt)

PS 5
PD 5
Athletics 8
Wm 8

Strong bow. Great Sword. Can use danish great sword also if you gotta deal with multiple cavs around so you have to put your bow out. Or 2 handed sword/katana if the map has little open space.
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Helrekkr on January 17, 2011, 05:41:34 pm
I reckon, if what Kesh says is correct, the best "pure" archer build would be:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Hit points: 56

Strength: 21
Agility: 21

Converted: 14

Athletics: 3
Power Draw: 7
Weapon Master: 7
Title: Re: Archer build
Post by: Rumblood on January 17, 2011, 06:00:15 pm
Quote from: BD_SUPERBEAST on January 17, 2011, 05:12:34 pm
Lvl 31

Str 15
Agi 24

Wpf : 160 archery.
         70   2h (aprox,maybe more,im still lvl 30 in my archer alt)

PS 5
PD 5
Athletics 8
Wm 8

Strong bow. Great Sword. Can use danish great sword also if you gotta deal with multiple cavs around so you have to put your bow out. Or 2 handed sword/katana if the map has little open space.

This is the build I'm going with. You have to use the turn 2 skill points into 1 attribute points feature to get there (I think twice)
I'm going with 100 wpf in polearms It takes a few arrows to take down a charging horse, and with the new animation, they can close a lot of distance before you can get an arrow off. So I figured out the new effective range and draw out the Bec when they are too close. I think may lose 10 wpf on the archer side, maybe 15, but Im pretty happy with where I am right now. (On an aside, I hear wpf was locked at 150 anyhow?) Ive got the PD 5 and working on agility. Archery wpf is at 125 and it makes an effective mid-range weapon. 15/24 to get 8 athletics and improved speed is well worth it.