cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Realism Discussion => Topic started by: Palurgee on August 04, 2013, 08:43:10 pm

Title: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Palurgee on August 04, 2013, 08:43:10 pm
EDIT: could an admin move this to game balance discussion at some point?

I'm not at all satisfied with one-handed weapons in cRPG, particularly the axes. At the moment, weapon speed increases as length and weight decrease. This is fine and well, but the increment is very little, if not absent. Here is an example -- the "One Handed Axe:"


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Now lets look at another one-handed weapon, the "Broad Short Sword:"

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The Broad Short Sword is longer, heavier, faster, has more attack directions, equal damage, and occupies no slots (and this is AFTER the nerf). So why would you use the axe? Ah, for the bonus against shields! Congratulations, you have broken your enemy's shield and you are now fighting him on fair grounds! Except for the fact that your weapon's stats are complete garbage. Now; you may think, "palurgee, the Broad Short Sword is nearly four times as expensive as the One Handed Axe!" Well, perhaps I should introduce a weapon a bit closer in the price range to the One Handed Axe. Please open the One Handed Axe spoiler and then the spoiler below.

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This little bastard is a point away from being the same length as the One Handed Axe, yet it has more speed and twice as much weight, a better damage type, knockdown, and only at the price of 99 more upkeep. Things look grim for our One Handed Axe friend. It is a step away from being useless in all but breaking shields. Perhaps we should take a look at another, more popular, axe. Let's see how it stacks up against other one-handed weapons. The "Broad One Handed Battle Axe."

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That'll do, broad one handed battle axe. But wait -- what's this? Right next to the Broad One Handed Battle Axe, The Elite Scimitar!

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Looks like the axe has been outplayed again. The Elite Scimitar is faster, much longer, and equal in weight. Fortunately our axe has an additional four damage and bonus versus shields which almost makes up for its otherwise trash stats.

Let's look at one-handed axes from a realistic perspective. A one-handed axe was a weapon designed to whack and wallop very quickly. Why was it able to do this? Two reasons:

1. It is very short
2. It is unbalanced

Axes, unlike swords, do not have much weight in the hilt. I even threw together this quick picture showing the approximate center of gravity on an axe:

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When swung, the swinger's arm gives it speed and then gravity packs with it a harder punch.

So, here is my idea for most, if not all, one-handed axes and some other one-handers.

Increase their speed dramatically and make them unbalanced. Thank you for reading, please give feedback.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Ronin on August 04, 2013, 11:32:08 pm
An increase to weight would be required as well.

But I honestly do not think that an increase to speed would be logical. Since it's center of gravity, it is harder to start the swing; therefore slower to prepare the attack not faster. I think a new damage type suited for axes would solve the problem with them. They must be more effective to armor, while not being as effective as a... lets say a pick. Ignoring 25% of armor could be quite nice.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Palurgee on August 05, 2013, 12:00:08 am
An increase to weight would be required as well.

But I honestly do not think that an increase to speed would be logical. Since it's center of gravity, it is harder to start the swing; therefore slower to prepare the attack not faster. I think a new damage type suited for axes would solve the problem with them. They must be more effective to armor, while not being as effective as a... lets say a pick. Ignoring 25% of armor could be quite nice.

I was looking for some sources online and found this guy. The first 60 seconds of this video definitely reflect my ideas for what axes should be like in cRPG.

Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: MrChubbikins on August 08, 2013, 10:08:23 pm
I feel like at this point in the game the only viable 1h weapons are picks and maces, which is depressing when there are so many 1h weapons to choose from.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 08, 2013, 10:35:37 pm
I feel like at this point in the game the only viable 1h weapons are picks and maces, which is depressing when there are so many 1h weapons to choose from.

Disagreed.  It depends entirely on your power strike (and active WPF, to a lesser extent) versus the armor and total HP the guy you're facing has. 

With 7 power strike and 125 WPF in 1h, my Masterwork Knightly Arming Sword is a beast versus anyone except the heaviest armored/healthed foes.  33+cut is no joke versus people in light heavy, or high-medium armor. 

In strat battles, blunt and pierce weapons are obviously the go to weapons over even the high cut weapons, due to people having such high armor values.  But even using some of the 34-36cut 1h weapons I still do pretty good damage due to my 7 power strike.
Title: ~
Post by: Palurgee on August 08, 2013, 10:57:40 pm
Disagreed.  It depends entirely on your power strike (and active WPF, to a lesser extent) versus the armor and total HP the guy you're facing has. 

With 7 power strike and 125 WPF in 1h, my Masterwork Knightly Arming Sword is a beast versus anyone except the heaviest armored/healthed foes.  33+cut is no joke versus people in light heavy, or high-medium armor. 

In strat battles, blunt and pierce weapons are obviously the go to weapons over even the high cut weapons, due to people having such high armor values.  But even using some of the 34-36cut 1h weapons I still do pretty good damage due to my 7 power strike.

That's what I think the problem with one-handers are -- you are very limited. To be effective against high-end armor (and even some medium armors) you need at least one of these choices:

A) a strength build
B) a loomed sword
C) a blunt/pierce weapon

One handed weapons are easily trumped by most two-handers and polearms without a shield (as most are faster, heavier, and longer). As a result you get a sort of vicious cycle; to increase your strength, you gain damage but lose some effectiveness with a shield. To increase agility, you lose damage but gain some effectiveness with a shield.

Also, there is very little variety in the one-handed section. Lets try to find the most varied one-handed weapons out there. Provided the weapons we compare have a gold value above 1.5k, this is probably what you'll find:

~35 difference in length
~5 difference in damage
a different damage type
~3 difference in speed
bonus versus shields
knockdown
secondary mode
~2 difference in weight

On the other hand(s), take the two most different double-handed weapons. Provided they are above a 1.5k gold value, this is probably what differences you'll find:

~120 difference in length
~25 difference in damage
a different damage type
~30 difference in speed
bonus versus shields
unbalanced
crushthrough
knockdown
can't use on horseback
~8 difference in weight
secondary mode
cannot be sheathed

In short, one-handed weapons are shitty and similar compared to polearms and two-handers.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: MrChubbikins on August 08, 2013, 11:16:00 pm
Disagreed.  It depends entirely on your power strike (and active WPF, to a lesser extent) versus the armor and total HP the guy you're facing has. 

With 7 power strike and 125 WPF in 1h, my Masterwork Knightly Arming Sword is a beast versus anyone except the heaviest armored/healthed foes.  33+cut is no joke versus people in light heavy, or high-medium armor. 

In strat battles, blunt and pierce weapons are obviously the go to weapons over even the high cut weapons, due to people having such high armor values.  But even using some of the 34-36cut 1h weapons I still do pretty good damage due to my 7 power strike.

I can understand where you are coming from but whats the point of a Knightly Arming Sword when not on horse back when you have something like a Steel Pick which is faster, glances a whole lot less, deals more damage and you really don't need weapon mastery at all.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Ronin on August 08, 2013, 11:17:15 pm
Thrust is your friend :)
Title: Re: ~
Post by: Gurnisson on August 08, 2013, 11:23:04 pm
A) a strength build
B) a loomed sword
C) a blunt/pierce weapon

I had a 15/18 build with a non-loomed elite scimitar, and while it is weaker (no denying that), it's definitely useable with okay footwork.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 08, 2013, 11:25:51 pm
I can understand where you are coming from but whats the point of a Knightly Arming Sword when not on horse back when you have something like a Steel Pick which is faster, glances a whole lot less, deals more damage and you really don't need weapon mastery at all.

My justification for using it (even when I only had 6 power strike) not on horseback (which I never use it from, or very rarely) is this:

It's a jack of all trades type of weapon (really this can be said for most of the reasons why someone uses a 1h sword over other 1h weapons):

It's not going to deal the most damage against heavily armored foes, but it will still deal moderate damage (compared to something like a warhammer or steel/military pick)
It's not going to be the fastest weapon, but it's going to be faster than most weapons being used (at least compared to 2h/poles)
Swords are one of the longest 1h weapons, so that is a big reason why I (and other 1h's) choose to use a sword.  If you hit the enemy with your sword (even a weaker hit than what you woulda done with a blunt/pierce weapon) at least you're getting some damage in.  Lots of times you wouldn't have been in range for the shorter blunt/pierce weapons to have hit the enemy.  Also when you hit the enemy, you stop them from hitting you.  Using a 1h sword you're able to kind of control the flow of battle and keep your enemy at bay easier than with a very short blunt/pierce weapon.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Ronin on August 08, 2013, 11:27:06 pm
My justification for using it (even when I only had 6 power strike) not on horseback (which I never use it from, or very rarely) is this:

It's a jack of all trades type of weapon (really this can be said for most of the reasons why someone uses a 1h sword over other 1h weapons):

It's not going to deal the most damage against heavily armored foes, but it will still deal moderate damage (compared to something like a warhammer or steel/military pick). 
It's not going to be the fastest weapon, but it's going to be faster than most weapons being used (at least compared to 2h/poles)
Swords are one of the longest 1h weapons, so that is a big reason why I (and other 1h's) choose to use a sword.
and thrust. THRUST!
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 08, 2013, 11:27:54 pm
and thrust. THRUST!

Right, and thrust (which is nice for heavily armored foes).  Thrust on 1h swords is pretty shitty though :P

Using an elite scimi with 5 power strike is really only something a sadist would do.   That's really pushing it.
Title: Re: ~
Post by: Palurgee on August 08, 2013, 11:28:14 pm
I had a 15/18 build with a non-loomed elite scimitar, and while it is weaker (no denying that), it's definitely useable with okay footwork.

Against medium and light armor, sure. High-end armor? I'm sure you got a lot of glance hits.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: MrChubbikins on August 08, 2013, 11:41:12 pm
My justification for using it (even when I only had 6 power strike) not on horseback (which I never use it from, or very rarely) is this:

It's a jack of all trades type of weapon (really this can be said for most of the reasons why someone uses a 1h sword over other 1h weapons):

It's not going to deal the most damage against heavily armored foes, but it will still deal moderate damage (compared to something like a warhammer or steel/military pick). 
It's not going to be the fastest weapon, but it's going to be faster than most weapons being used (at least compared to 2h/poles)
Swords are one of the longest 1h weapons, so that is a big reason why I (and other 1h's) choose to use a sword.

Jack of all trades, master of none is how I look at it. I enjoy using 1h swords for all of the same reasons but its very frustrating when a better score or k/d can be achieved with picks or maces because of sheer damage or knock down. Then there is Strat...good luck finding battles with decent 1h swords and good luck getting kills. It kinda takes away from the game for me when more than half of the weapons aren't even used in Strat.
Title: Re: ~
Post by: Gurnisson on August 08, 2013, 11:55:02 pm
Against medium and light armor, sure. High-end armor? I'm sure you got a lot of glance hits.

No, with a couple of points invested into athletics and power strike, bouncing is either lag-related or your own fault (bad footwork, bad timing).
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: dreadnok on August 09, 2013, 06:23:43 pm
Also, 1h is garbage damage compared to 2h and pole arm. I don't know why I gotta hit a guys shield 7 times with a 40 cut axe and a pole arm does it in 2.  The axe bonus on one hand isn't worth it at all
Title: Re: ~
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on August 09, 2013, 06:51:01 pm
Against medium and light armor, sure. High-end armor? I'm sure you got a lot of glance hits.
I use an unloomed Espada (25 cut) with 4 or 5 ps depending on what build I'm using, I barely ever glance my swings without it clearly being my fault, admittedly on heavier armors all my hits besides my stabs or headshots make that sound weapons make when they stun but deal next to no damage.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on August 09, 2013, 07:28:54 pm
High damage and Bonus against Shield is all axes need.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: San on August 09, 2013, 08:40:38 pm
1h cut weapons just need +2 damage. After 33 or so cut, that's around the lowest for it to be reasonably useful. I would also go so far as to raise all cut damage by 1 and reduce +3 bonus to only increase damage by 2 so that 1h unloomed weapons are a little better. The average armor among melee is so high that the low base cut is more of a disadvantage than it should be.

The one handed axe is pretty weak, but it's only 1.5k. Barely any other weapons around there reach 30 cut. I think that it's internally balanced and only needs a slight tweak at most, but it's just that the entire cut group needs to be adjusted.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Palurgee on August 11, 2013, 05:03:15 am
1h cut weapons just need +2 damage. After 33 or so cut, that's around the lowest for it to be reasonably useful. I would also go so far as to raise all cut damage by 1 and reduce +3 bonus to only increase damage by 2 so that 1h unloomed weapons are a little better. The average armor among melee is so high that the low base cut is more of a disadvantage than it should be.

The one handed axe is pretty weak, but it's only 1.5k. Barely any other weapons around there reach 30 cut. I think that it's internally balanced and only needs a slight tweak at most, but it's just that the entire cut group needs to be adjusted.

I agree with this, it would make it more balanced, but it still doesn't change the fact that there is so little variety between the one-handers.

On a side note: the new patch (3.0.0.4 or whatever) buffed swords, further removing the usefulness from axes. Just putting that out there.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Ronin on August 11, 2013, 08:24:54 am
I agree with this, it would make it more balanced, but it still doesn't change the fact that there is so little variety between the one-handers.

On a side note: the new patch (3.0.0.4 or whatever) buffed swords, further removing the usefulness from axes. Just putting that out there.
The new patch did not decrease the usefulness of axes, it just made them comparatively less appealing compared to swords; if you only take into account they changed the 1h thrust attack. The right swing is also changed now, which is a clear advantage to short onehanders mostly; which include axes.
Title: Re: ~
Post by: Swaggart on August 11, 2013, 05:15:43 pm
What everyone seems to forget is that one handed weapons are balanced around the idea that you're bringing a shield, vastly increasing your chances of survival dramatically. Shielders are a more defensive class - more of a counter puncher - and are balanced around the idea that you are bringing a shield. If one handers had the same killing power as polearms and two handed weapons why be anything but a shielder? If we started balancing one handers directly against polearms and two handed weapons then shields would have to be dramatically reduced in effectiveness to compensate, and that would just kill the entire point of bringing a shield to begin with.

My gripe with one handed axes, and any short one hander for that matter, is that you have to get in so close to land any hit that's not a right swing (which are unreliable in my opinion). When you get that close it becomes to easy to get kicked, or (my favourite) have some agility stacking cunt just s key and right swing.
Title: Re: ~
Post by: Falka on August 11, 2013, 05:46:58 pm
No, with a couple of points invested into athletics and power strike, bouncing is either lag-related or your own fault (bad footwork, bad timing).
I use an unloomed Espada (25 cut) with 4 or 5 ps depending on what build I'm using, I barely ever glance my swings without it clearly being my fault, admittedly on heavier armors all my hits besides my stabs or headshots make that sound weapons make when they stun but deal next to no damage.

Against plated armors with 9 PS, 160 wpf mw nordic champ glances quite a lot even when I make okay - maybe not perfect but at least okay - swing. And in strat battles sometimes there's no place for proper footwork.

1h cut weapons just need +2 damage.

I don't think 1h as a whole needs another - after receiving new stab animation which is clear buff and not a minor one - buff.

I would also go so far as to raise all cut damage by 1 and reduce +3 bonus to only increase damage by 2 so that 1h unloomed weapons are a little better.

+1 Whole mode should go in this direction, making looms less important.

it still doesn't change the fact that there is so little variety between the one-handers.

Eh? I'd say 1h inventory is more diverisfied than 2h.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Tibe on August 11, 2013, 05:51:54 pm
I think you guys are forgetting one important fact here. 1h weapons where never ment to be as primary weapons to begin with. Just look at them from native, they arent even worth scratching your own arse with, let alone be used as descent weapons against poles and 2h. Crpg did 1h fuckton of justice and made it primary. Be happy with what you already got.

And these axes are ofcourse more weaker then the 1h blades. I mean they are shieldbreakers. They are situational weapons. The blades indeed jack of all trades. But you would be bashing a shielder forever with em. Get some 1h axe and the enemy shield turns into butter.

Ive been using 1hs for quite a while now and I must say they are pretty damn viable weapons. Sure I think I would do 2 times better with a greatsword, but 1h is hella more fun.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Osiris on August 11, 2013, 06:08:49 pm
I think you guys are forgetting one important fact here. 1h weapons where never ment to be as primary weapons to begin with. Just look at them from native, they arent even worth scratching your own arse with, let alone be used as descent weapons against poles and 2h. Crpg did 1h fuckton of justice and made it primary. Be happy with what you already got.

And these axes are ofcourse more weaker then the 1h blades. I mean they are shieldbreakers. They are situational weapons. The blades indeed jack of all trades. But you would be bashing a shielder forever with em. Get some 1h axe and the enemy shield turns into butter.

Ive been using 1hs for quite a while now and I must say they are pretty damn viable weapons. Sure I think I would do 2 times better with a greatsword, but 1h is hella more fun.


I dont know where the hell you were playing native but nearly everyone is 1h/shield in battle :D
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Taser on August 11, 2013, 06:22:23 pm
I'm going to go ahead and disagree with your broad axe and scimitar example. Reason being is that the axe has a secondary mode in which it deals a very nice pierce attack which is great against armor. Some of the lower axes yeah they suck but that's just what happens with lower quality items since they're cheap.

But the broad one handed battle axe is an amazing weapon even vs the elite scimitar example (although I fucking hate the scimitar. Cheap weapon overall). But the axe does a very nice cut damage at 35 then does 28p on secondary. That's almost as good as the military pick (military pick has 29p) but the broad battle axe has 3 more length and the same speed as the military pick.

I think your problem is with the cheaper axes more so than all of them. Actually probably just all axes below the broad one handed battle axe really which is almost all of them.
Title: Re: ~
Post by: Palurgee on August 11, 2013, 07:41:21 pm
Eh? I'd say 1h inventory is more diverisfied than 2h.

Going to quote myself on this one:

Quote
Also, there is very little variety in the one-handed section. Lets try to find the most varied one-handed weapons out there. Provided the weapons we compare have a gold value above 1.5k, this is probably what you'll find:

~35 difference in length
~5 difference in damage
a different damage type
~3 difference in speed
bonus versus shields
knockdown
secondary mode
~2 difference in weight

On the other hand(s), take the two most different double-handed weapons. Provided they are above a 1.5k gold value, this is probably what differences you'll find:

~120 difference in length
~25 difference in damage
a different damage type
~30 difference in speed
bonus versus shields
unbalanced
crushthrough
knockdown
can't use on horseback
~8 difference in weight
secondary mode
cannot be sheathed

In short, one-handed weapons are shitty and similar compared to polearms and two-handers.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Tibe on August 11, 2013, 08:26:59 pm

I dont know where the hell you were playing native but nearly everyone is 1h/shield in battle :D
Times have changed? Last time I played native the ratio was 80% team ranged on both sides. And I was all like fuck this shit.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Gurnisson on August 12, 2013, 12:17:56 am
Times have changed? Last time I played native the ratio was 80% team ranged on both sides. And I was all like fuck this shit.

Native battles have a shit-ton of ranged, that is true, but a lot of it are from shielders spamming javs.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Jarold on August 12, 2013, 05:02:15 pm
The broad one handed battle axe is a beast. The thing about axes is you can break shields, they are fast, they deal a lot of damage, and they can be cheap upkeep.

I think you are overlooking this weapons niche.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Palurgee on August 12, 2013, 08:46:33 pm
The thing about axes is you can break shields

Yes, they break shields more quickly than other weapons.

they are fast

No, they aren't fast. They are collectively much slower than most swords.

deal a lot of damage

Their cut damage is high. Is this balancing? Somewhat. Is it realistic? No. An axe is light, short, and top-heavy. They are swung very quickly and with considerable force, but severely lacking in length. Those are the properties of realistic one-handed axes. cRPG axes are instead heavy, slow, short, and hard-hitting. Take the iron war axe for example; it is the heaviest, slowest, shortest, and hardest-hitting cut damage one-hander in the upper tier. These are the properties that should belong to maces, not axes. That is the realism argument. The game balance argument is that they are weak to be viable as strong primary one-handed weapons. They are too short, slow, and only have three attack directions. The compensation for this -- the ability to break shields -- falls a little short. As a result, you get people using axes as sidearms for fighting shielders rather than as the primary weapon. And why should it be? It lacks the length to fight skilled cavalry, agility builds can scoot backwards and constantly stay out of its reach, and even with those extra two points in cut damage it is still slower and shorter than most swords.
The Grosse Messer is longer than the Broad One Handed Battle Axe. It has equal damage and four attack directions. It is faster, cheaper, and requires 1 less strength to use. The only reason to pick the Broad One Handed Battle Axe is for the shield-breaking, and as I explained before: you can break your opponents shield, but the advantage of fighting an enemy without a shield is expunged by the fact that your weapon's stats are bad.

and they can be cheap upkeep.

They have just as much upkeep as any other sword. Saying that they "can be cheap upkeep" isn't really a considerable factor in balancing them. A sword or mace also "can be cheap upkeep."

Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Jarold on August 13, 2013, 12:24:58 am
You separated all the pros I listed for the axe instead of thinking about how you get all that in one package. It's not about this one sword is faster, and this other sword is cheap, and then there is this sword that does more damage. It's about how an axe does more then those sword but with it's only con being less reach. Also the cheap upkeep part was about having an axe that deals more damage than most swords at almost a fourth of the cost depending on which axes and swords you are comparing.

Military Cleaver, one of the highest cut damage swords slower than all other one handed axes, doesn't break shields, deals the same amount of damage as the axes, and it's heavier. Only pro is that it's longer.


But if you want a fast 1h weapon you are going to have to sacrifice some damage, but the axe has speed and damage, 98 speed can be spammed easily. I'm not sure if you've used many 1h axes?

If you want a long 1h you are going to have to sacrifice speed, usually, and they still won't deal as much damage. So there are trade offs.

The Iron War Axe deals the most damage out of all 1h. So obviously it needs a trade off speed and reach. Grosse messer isn't good for fighting cav, or s-keys.


In the end it all comes down to which weapons you are comparing because, thankfully, we have a nice variety of one handers that have pros and cons over eachother. You want more damage, sacrifice speed or length, you want more speed, sacrifice length or damage, you want to be fast and high damaging and have the ability to break shields, sacrifice length.

Axes have their own niche to fill and they do it well. Obviously they will be worse in some situations and better in others, just like all weapons.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Nightmare798 on August 13, 2013, 03:47:51 pm
you somehow forget that you can send someone s shield down to drain in 5 hits...
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on August 27, 2013, 09:15:38 am
I would really like to see some heavy 1H axes and maces that are unbalanced. That would add some more variety to weapons, which is a good thing in my mind.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: MURDERTRON on August 27, 2013, 06:03:40 pm
My biggest complaint about axes is that their damage to shields bonus is not that noticeable.  It shouldn't take 6 plus swings of a MW bardiche to break an elite cav shield, even if that is MW too.

Basically, axes are slow, short, high in cut damage (terrible against armor), have no stab and unbalanced.  Those are pretty much all of the worst traits in the game, yet they still suck at their purpose.  If you asked me if I'd rather have a Longsword or a Bardiche against a shielder, I'd take the Longsword 10 out if 10 times and try to spam the fucker to death.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Nightmare798 on August 27, 2013, 07:59:41 pm
My biggest complaint about axes is that their damage to shields bonus is not that noticeable.  It shouldn't take 6 plus swings of a MW bardiche to break an elite cav shield, even if that is MW too.

Basically, axes are slow, short, high in cut damage (terrible against armor), have no stab and unbalanced.  Those are pretty much all of the worst traits in the game, yet they still suck at their purpose.  If you asked me if I'd rather have a Longsword or a Bardiche against a shielder, I'd take the Longsword 10 out if 10 times and try to spam the fucker to death.

not noticable? who the hell are you kidding here? i definitelly feel a ton of difference when i am fighting a swordsman and an axeman.
if anything, the bonus is a little op. people are stopping to buy swords because axes make shield plain useless.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Kriegson on September 04, 2013, 03:55:38 pm
Having just gotten back into CRPG I can hardly make an educated statement on the meta, but in general I have noticed one handed swords and the occasional mace show up FAR more often than axes.

Would be nice if perhaps axes had less of a chance to glance (assuming they don't) considering the weight and momentum being transferred into a more focused surface area further removed from the center of mass. I would think it would be only slightly less likely to glance an axe off armor than a mace (Depending on axe and armor of course).

If I had my way, I would add a new damage type for "Chopping" used on heavy single edged swords and axes. A mix between hammers and swords, rather than simply "Cutting". Considering the comparison between say...a katana and a danish axe as both simply being "Cutting" weapons is a bit silly.

Though that's far too much work for far too little a nitpick.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Matey on September 07, 2013, 06:33:24 am
what makes axes iffy is the tiny reach, lack of stab, cut only and not that great speed. The only axe with decent reach is the fighting axe which is a total piece of shit in 1h mode. But despite all that.. I still love my Mighty Broad One Handed Battle Axe... even if I never use it because of the reach.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Nightmare798 on September 07, 2013, 11:06:01 am
what makes axes iffy is the tiny reach, lack of stab, cut only and not that great speed. The only axe with decent reach is the fighting axe which is a total piece of shit in 1h mode. But despite all that.. I still love my Mighty Broad One Handed Battle Axe... even if I never use it because of the reach.

fighting axe has 84 reach, one handed war axe has about 71 reach [correct me if i am wrong]. speed is actually pretty decent, when you think about it, axe has similar balance to mace.

by definition, an axe should be weapon shorter than swords, slow, hard hitting, cheap [and they are cheap] and it should be good against shields .altho i feel this bonus is a bit too much, no real point in using sword anymore. guy with an axe can ruin your shield in few hits [even with 6 shield and knightly heater shield].
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Paul on September 09, 2013, 09:21:07 am
It's nice how people state their lobbying alignment in their avatar or signatur pics.

"I'm sword&board - nerf axes"
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: MURDERTRON on September 09, 2013, 08:50:58 pm
Can't we all agree that 1h axes are all shit now that 1h got a lightsabre stab?
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Nightmare798 on September 09, 2013, 10:05:10 pm
It's nice how people state their lobbying alignment in their avatar or signatur pics.

"I'm sword&board - nerf axes"

i am not biased towards swords because i am sword and board, i am simply astonished that someone has balls to call one handed axes trash, considering their cost, damage and bonus against shields.

what are swords then, junk?
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Nightmare798 on September 09, 2013, 10:08:46 pm
Can't we all agree that 1h axes are all shit now that 1h got a lightsabre stab?

axemen knew what they are doing when they bought their weapons. they knew that there would be no stab. their weapons were also cheaper with lower upkeep.
i find it insulting that some people cry about axes being underpowered [they are not], when they dont have to pay 500-750 gold per round for upkeep.
Title: Re: All one handed axes are trash
Post by: Tovi on September 10, 2013, 12:19:00 am
Well, it's good to have a light and cheap axe as secondary weapon.  8-)