cRPG

Melee: Battlegrounds => General => Topic started by: Aprikose on November 22, 2014, 10:39:48 am

Title: We've got a (HUGE FUCKING) problem here (updated)
Post by: Aprikose on November 22, 2014, 10:39:48 am
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Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: pogosan on November 22, 2014, 11:52:36 am
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: FleetFox on November 22, 2014, 12:32:32 pm
We need to get agreement from top youtube gamer channels to help promote, otherwise its going to be hard.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Renegat on November 22, 2014, 12:38:26 pm
what happen if we don't reach 130k in 4 weeks? project just end?
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: matt2507 on November 22, 2014, 01:34:01 pm
what happen if we don't reach 130k in 4 weeks? project just end?

Happened for Life is feudal by the past. And see now  :wink:

Option is: making a 2nd kickstarter and put on steam greenlight.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Utrakil on November 22, 2014, 02:58:46 pm
what happen if we don't reach 130k in 4 weeks? project just end?
I can't see the donkeys to give up. They will strugle through. it will just take much longer and might be not as perfect as it will be with the 130$.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Kirbyy on November 22, 2014, 03:47:26 pm
We need to get agreement from top youtube gamer channels to help promote, otherwise its going to be hard.

Honestly, this guy is right.  As much as you'd like to spam on forums and such, the only real hard promotion we're going to get will be from youtubers who are genuinely interested.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Fips on November 22, 2014, 04:19:37 pm
Honestly, this guy is right.  As much as you'd like to spam on forums and such, the only real hard promotion we're going to get will be from youtubers who are genuinely interested.

Only problem is that we as simple users won't be able to grab their attention, unless it so happens that some of us know these Youtubers personally.
This definitely needs to come from the devs on the buisness e-mails that we collected and in my opinion, it should have happened before the kickstarter was up. Youtubers like to feel special, at least most of them.

That said, there is plenty of time left, but we need to get the snowball rolling quickly, even just the Youtube-Community won't make this thing reach the goal. Needs time for those guys to praise the kickstarter in their own ways, reaching an even bigger audience and potential backers.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Frell on November 22, 2014, 06:16:19 pm
People don't trust Kickstarters anymore sadly. If this was 2012 you would have nearly $300k by the end.

Too many games have made more promises than they can fulfill and released unfinished, now gamers are very cautious about backing. Journalists don't like Kickstarters too much now either because it floods their inboxes, in general they tend to shy away from indie titles unless they look solid and provide a playable build with the email.

Kickstarter is being phased out by the gaming community, it sucks because you guys definitely deserve it and I hated to see that burst start to slow down. Another slight mistake may have been launching the Kickstarter so close to the holidays and after like 4-6 AAA titles have been released. Potential backers may have just spent $120 on FC4 and GTA5, so they may not have money to back. Others might be saving the money for black friday or christmas. The best time of year to do Kickstarters is April.

That graph you're seeing is normal, that's the end of your pre-launch fan base backing the project. Now it depends on exposing the game by landing articles/lets plays.

We need to get agreement from top youtube gamer channels to help promote, otherwise its going to be hard.
I have a campaign up now myself, the Yogscast and a few other big youtubers played and it only spiked our backers by 8. We also press-released to over 60 sites, only to get an article from 20, including two by RockPaperShotgun. We haven't been able to get a second Kotaku article since march, but Kotaku can deliver a big spike if you manage to get one.


This was much harder than me and my partner imagined, and I'm sure you guys see that as well. We wish you the best of luck!




what happen if we don't reach 130k in 4 weeks? project just end?
No way, they can't give up! There are many successful titles out now that had failed Kickstarters, including Insurgency.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: FleetFox on November 22, 2014, 06:18:11 pm
People don't trust Kickstarters anymore sadly. If this was 2012 you would have nearly $300k by the end.

Too many games have made more promises than they can fulfill and released unfinished, now gamers are very cautious about backing. Journalists don't like Kickstarters too much now either because it floods their inboxes, in general they tend to shy away from indie titles unless they look solid and provide a playable build with the email.

Kickstarter is being phased out by the gaming community, it sucks because you guys definitely deserve it and I hated to see that burst start to slow down. Another slight mistake may have been launching the Kickstarter so close to the holidays and after like 4-6 AAA titles have been released. Potential backers may have just spent $120 on FC4 and GTA5, so they may not have money to back. Others might be saving the money for black friday or christmas. The best time of year to do Kickstarters is April.
I have a campaign up now myself, the Yogscast and a few other big youtubers played and it only spiked our backers by 8.

This was much harder than me and my partner imagined, and I'm sure you guys see that as well. We wish you the best of luck!
No way, they can't give up! There are many successful titles out now that had failed Kickstarters, including Insurgency.

Fairplay mate, thanks very much for trying at least, I do agree that perhaps the timing has been a little unfortunate with the holiday and black friday incoming.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Bittersteel on November 22, 2014, 06:20:19 pm
Weeeeelll, that's the cRPG community's money gone, that's about it.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Byrdi on November 22, 2014, 06:22:19 pm
Fairplay mate, thanks very much for trying at least, I do agree that perhaps the timing has been a little unfortunate with the holiday and black friday incoming.

The devs did some research prior to deciding on a kickstarter date and found that December kickstarters were very successful.
Supposedly they chose this time on purpose.

I have no idea what time is good for launching kickstarters but do you guys really think that is would have mattered whether it had been November or January?
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Frell on November 22, 2014, 06:24:26 pm
The devs did some research prior to deciding on a kickstarter date and found that December kickstarters were very successful.
Supposedly they chose this time on purpose.

This is not true at all  :(

People go on vacation during December, and so does the press and youtubers. They are not near their computers nearly as much and most games/projects experience a stall.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Byrdi on November 22, 2014, 06:29:54 pm
This is not true at all  :(

People go on vacation during December, and so does the press and youtubers. They are not near their computers nearly as much and most games/projects experience a stall.

That's what they said. You should ask them how they came to that conclusion if it is this important to you.
Honestly, there is really no reason to complain about it now though. The kickstarter has started and we will have to do the best we can on those condition to make this game a reality :D
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Thomek on November 22, 2014, 07:01:24 pm
The truth is that Kickstarters are hard hard work. Also, press will usually be more interested the nearer it is to success.

We need to be a team working 24/7 on this, letting the world know about it first and foremost.

Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Leshma on November 22, 2014, 08:19:44 pm
Weeeeelll, that's the cRPG community's money gone, that's about it.

Did you pledge?
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Falka on November 22, 2014, 08:56:23 pm
Did you pledge?

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I WANT YOU
TO PLEDGE
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Stormcrow on November 22, 2014, 09:14:30 pm
Crpg doesn't have enough players to fund a new game.  Lately NA1 barely get to 50 players. The game is far to elitist and inaccessible for new players while years of patches and nerfs have left the veteran community alienated and frustrated.  The developers need to take a serious look at where the game came from as warband native is both more popular and playable. After 6 years crpg has become a cesspool of players, a game not meant for casual gamers or people just looking to blow off steam. With only a couple hours of gaming time a week I will waste neither my time or money on this.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Falka on November 22, 2014, 09:21:30 pm
The game is far to elitist and inaccessible for new players while years of patches and nerfs have left the veteran community alienated and frustrated.  The developers need to take a serious look at where the game came from as warband native is both more popular and playable. After 6 years crpg has become a cesspool of players, a game not meant for casual gamers or people just looking to blow off steam.

The only way to make this game more casual friendly is permaban all hardcore players. In skill based game with too many pro players and too little new blood nothing will help newbies, when there're plenty of players who will wreck the shit out of noobs even with pitchfork and sickle.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Jacko on November 22, 2014, 09:30:25 pm
These last two years haven't been a walk in the park for anyone in the team, and we all knew that kickstarter would be hard work. We have to push this outside of our community, which we are and will continue to do.

Consider this our month long Strategus siege on the city of Game-Coverage. Perseverance is key.

(Okey that sounded incredibly corny but you get the idea).
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Stormcrow on November 22, 2014, 09:31:00 pm
crpg is skill based but so is warband which is playable by both veterans and brand new players. Your not very creative either as banning hardcore players is a terrible idea.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Falka on November 22, 2014, 09:45:37 pm
crpg is skill based but so is warband which is playable by both veterans and brand new players.

Because in native warband there's a good amount of "brand new players" or at least not very good players. In cRPG I'd say 8 out of 10 players have at least 1000 hours spent in warband, so no wonder these few new players have hard time here. Oh, and ranged is much easier/powerful in native, so newbies can have their share of fun without being enforced to play melee. 
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Kalp on November 22, 2014, 09:46:57 pm
Consider this our month long Strategus siege on the city of Game-Coverage. Perseverance is key.

(click to show/hide)

If you know what I mean  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Stormcrow on November 23, 2014, 01:24:57 am
Quote
Because in native warband there's a good amount of "brand new players" or at least not very good players. In cRPG I'd say 8 out of 10 players have at least 1000 hours spent in warband, so no wonder these few new players have hard time here. Oh, and ranged is much easier/powerful in native, so newbies can have their share of fun without being enforced to play melee. 

I agree completely and  due to this the number of players able to actually play the game with any success has been dramatically reduced. Years of patches have made the skill requirement  needed for this game rise exponentially. Basically the game has shrunk its potential player base down to a size by catering to the whims of melee veterans while ignoring the requests of new or ranged players. The proof is in the fact that most of the server is playing melee based builds because ranged is inferior, "for noobs" and has been nerfed to shit.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on November 23, 2014, 02:34:53 am
Lets remember what we are actually talking about here.
The truth is though the fan base for M:BG is there. Warband proves that, WE just need to help promote it, hell, even tell your Gran's dog if you think they will pledge.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Goretooth on November 23, 2014, 07:29:30 pm
I agree completely and  due to this the number of players able to actually play the game with any success has been dramatically reduced. Years of patches have made the skill requirement  needed for this game rise exponentially. Basically the game has shrunk its potential player base down to a size by catering to the whims of melee veterans while ignoring the requests of new or ranged players. The proof is in the fact that most of the server is playing melee based builds because ranged is inferior, "for noobs" and has been nerfed to shit.
stormcry
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on November 23, 2014, 07:38:42 pm
I agree completely and  due to this the number of players able to actually play the game with any success has been dramatically reduced. Years of patches have made the skill requirement  needed for this game rise exponentially. Basically the game has shrunk its potential player base down to a size by catering to the whims of melee veterans while ignoring the requests of new or ranged players. The proof is in the fact that most of the server is playing melee based builds because ranged is inferior, "for noobs" and has been nerfed to shit.

Didn't the latest large patch put any new player at a much larger advantage than they have ever been at? Instead of starting at level 1, they start at 25, right? I was level 32/33 before that patch and am now only 1 level higher than a skip the fun, which I think is fine. However, that change is certainly NOT ignoring requests of new players. The main beneficiary of that change IS new players. Anyway, the most likely request that a new player would have is probably something like "add guns pls" amirite?

As for ranged, it sure sucks for people that only enjoy ranged, but when many people are confronted by something that can do damage to them with little-no risk (mostly talking about HA/kiting ranged, really) they'll be mad. There are more melee players than ranged, so you'll piss off the smaller group rather than the larger, or both.

Crpg doesn't have enough players to fund a new game.  Lately NA1 barely get to 50 players. The game is far to elitist and inaccessible for new players while years of patches and nerfs have left the veteran community alienated and frustrated.  The developers need to take a serious look at where the game came from as warband native is both more popular and playable. After 6 years crpg has become a cesspool of players, a game not meant for casual gamers or people just looking to blow off steam. With only a couple hours of gaming time a week I will waste neither my time or money on this.


You're right, cRPG doesn't have a community that can fund a new game. That is, entirely on its own. That's why they are running a kickstarter; to inform non-crpg/warband players about their project, and hopefully part them with their hard-earned shekels.

Also, I completely disagree with your statement that patches made the skill requirement increase. If anything, they've done the opposite. The "turn-rate nerf" and overall slower combat speed compared to native can only benefit a newer player compared to some dueling beast like kaoklai.

Furthermore, since this is not a free mod, and requires a budget, I do not feel that the devs would intentionally make the game prohibitively difficult for a new, or simply unskilled player. After all, they would like the game to sell as much as possible while fulfilling their vision of what it should be. They'll do what they can to make it reasonably accessible, or they'll be making a poor decision.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: MeevarTheMighty on November 24, 2014, 06:26:21 am
Picked up slightly over the last day. "Trending" toward 150k before it clicked over.

Average pledge of $58 is actually pretty substantial, considering all of the discounts and the crazy $1 Meet the Team reward.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Aprikose on November 24, 2014, 03:50:19 pm
updated
Title: Re: We've got a problem here (updated)
Post by: enigmatic_stranger on November 24, 2014, 04:22:47 pm
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heh
Title: Re: We've got a problem here (updated)
Post by: Nessaj on November 24, 2014, 11:31:31 pm
Show some twitter love for Warhorse Studios, the guys behind Kingdom Come (http://www.kingdomcomerpg.com), they actually mentioned us in their twitter feed! https://twitter.com/WarhorseStudios/status/536885610582388737 (https://twitter.com/WarhorseStudios/status/536885610582388737)

Very wow!
Title: Re: We've got a problem here (updated)
Post by: Joseph Porta on November 24, 2014, 11:32:29 pm
Retweet fgts
Title: Re: We've got a problem here (updated)
Post by: 722_ on November 24, 2014, 11:41:39 pm
They also followed melee on twitter
Title: Re: We've got a problem here (updated)
Post by: MeevarTheMighty on November 25, 2014, 09:04:35 am
Show some twitter love for Warhorse Studios, the guys behind Kingdom Come (http://www.kingdomcomerpg.com), they actually mentioned us in their twitter feed! https://twitter.com/WarhorseStudios/status/536885610582388737 (https://twitter.com/WarhorseStudios/status/536885610582388737)

Very wow!

Yeah, that's great news, I really didn't think they'd be interested. I still don't see them on the backer list and Karol Lempochner is the only Czech national I could find there, but if they back - their own Kickstarter exploded when Chris Roberts backed them and they actually blew that information into a full Thankyou Chris Roberts type update on Kickstarter. It has a very good chance of being a big break for this project, so I'd be making plans for capitalising on it.

If you can get some kind of exchange going, it could be really worthwhile.

CR and Warhorse traded some tech, but even something more gestural, or one sided could work. You could include something about their project - like the top tier physical rewards, dev faces, one of the castles from their map, whatever - as in-game items as a big thankyou. If you did do something like that and the thankyou included an exclusive for K:CD backers, they'd be unlikely to want to throw away a gift.

Edit: Apricose, your graphs are a little wonky in that today's line is still incomplete/rising. You should extrapolate from the second last line.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here (updated)
Post by: Falka on November 25, 2014, 05:44:15 pm
No need to worry folks. Only 3 k more and we can be almost sure that devs will reach their goal  :wink:

Quote
Of the projects that have reached 20% of their funding goal, 81% were successfully funded. Of the projects that have reached 60% of their funding goal, 98% were successfully funded. Projects either make their goal or find little support. There's little in-between.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here (updated)
Post by: Aprikose on November 25, 2014, 10:23:49 pm
No need to worry folks. Only 3 k more and we can be almost sure that devs will reach their goal  :wink:
meh dis is not so reliable
Title: Re: We've got a problem here (updated)
Post by: Frell on November 25, 2014, 10:26:54 pm
No need to worry folks. Only 3 k more and we can be almost sure that devs will reach their goal  :wink:
Times have changed (though I'm not sure of the date on that statistic). KS isn't as explosive as it used to be, refer to my post on page 1.

Just because they make it to 20% doesn't mean the community should stop promoting it, have to keep pushing.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here (updated)
Post by: agweber on November 25, 2014, 10:28:43 pm
meh dis is not so reliable

We're already past 20%, but I think that the statistics given don't apply to us as much, because probably 90% of this is from the crpg community. If this was 20% from the wide world I'd be much more relaxed and less worried.

We definitely need to keep spreading the word and promoting this project. Finding bigger and better sources and having demo players is the way to go!
Title: Re: We've got a problem here (updated)
Post by: Rebelyell on November 25, 2014, 11:23:02 pm
we are on 6yh place on http://www.kicktraq.com
soo yeha

Title: Re: We've got a problem here (updated)
Post by: karasu on November 26, 2014, 12:05:13 am
5th.  :wink:
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on November 26, 2014, 02:37:17 am
Weeeeelll, that's the cRPG community's money gone, that's about it.

somebody does not understand kickstarter
Title: Re: We've got a problem here
Post by: Bittersteel on November 26, 2014, 09:36:39 am
somebody does not understand kickstarter

How so? I know the money is only being given if the goal is reached if that's what you're referring to.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here (updated)
Post by: Teeth on November 28, 2014, 12:24:43 pm
Saying that 'the community's money is gone' is very easy to interpret as 'the community will lose its pledged money'. You probably are referring to that the devs will not receive the community's money, but the distinction is important.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here (updated)
Post by: Bittersteel on November 28, 2014, 01:35:58 pm
Oh, well I meant that it got to 20k very quickly and it was mostly thanks to the cRPG community and it would start being slowed down, which, by the looks of things, it has.
Title: Re: We've got a problem here (updated)
Post by: Aprikose on November 28, 2014, 01:45:51 pm
Oh, well I meant that it got to 20k very quickly and it was mostly thanks to the cRPG community and it would start being slowed down, which, by the looks of things, it has.

and thats the reasone why this:
(click to show/hide)
is bullcrap at our project
Title: Re: We've got a (HUGE FUCKING) problem here (updated)
Post by: Lyozsha on November 29, 2014, 10:23:11 pm
I think a better "kickstarter" would be to find programmers and artists willing to work off of dedication, rather than money.     In the end it's just another game, and nobody wants to spend that much money on entertainment that may or may not exist.

I would never in a million years donate anything to computerized technology that becomes antiquated in less than a decade. 
Title: Re: We've got a (HUGE FUCKING) problem here (updated)
Post by: Miwiw on November 29, 2014, 10:24:44 pm
Kickstarter is not about donation. You probably didnt understand it. Kickstarter makes you buy the game if you put at least 21$ into it. The game will not be as cheap as that once its released. Higher pledge amounts give you extra stuff, such as alpha/beta access, more copies or ingame stuff.

And no, it's not just another game. It's a game we in the crpg community always wanted.
Title: Re: We've got a (HUGE FUCKING) problem here (updated)
Post by: Lyozsha on November 29, 2014, 10:59:15 pm
Kickstarter is not about donation. You probably didnt understand it. Kickstarter makes you buy the game if you put at least 21$ into it. The game will not be as cheap as that once its released. Higher pledge amounts give you extra stuff, such as alpha/beta access, more copies or ingame stuff.

And no, it's not just another game. It's a game we in the crpg community always wanted.

Yes I understand what a kickstarter is.  I also understand what alpha and beta is. 
So I've come to the conclusion that paying just to be "the first" to play is a waste, and exploitation of human greed.
What extra do we get?  A few bits and bytes, something fancy to look at.

There are only so many people within the c-rpg community.  It is a mod for another game.   It does not appeal to anyone else.
Battleground Europe is a good example of a dwindling community.

I've been playing c-rpg for a while now.  Who do I see in the servers?   Always the same few characters, played by the same few people.   
If those are the only people that fund the game,  the game is going to have a ("Huge Fucking Problem")
Viewing the trailers from this game,  a newcomer could suspect  a "War of the Roses" knockoff.  "Chivalry" knockoff.

It is screamingly obviously why funding will discontinue.   

Paying for alphas, betas, in-game content, etc is no longer innovative like it was before people realized you don't actually get much from it.   All it's good for is making yourself feel like you've done something good.
Although it is just a game.     
Title: Re: We've got a (HUGE FUCKING) problem here (updated)
Post by: Franke on November 29, 2014, 10:59:23 pm
What's the point of updating this thread every 2 days? QQing won't fix anything. This crpg rule does not apply to the outside world.
Title: Re: We've got a (HUGE FUCKING) problem here (updated)
Post by: Switchtense on November 29, 2014, 11:02:34 pm
This crpg rule does not apply to the outside world.

The what?