~Pro Cavalry Balance~

[MayPeX]

buff cav

[Piok]

Force field removal: lobbying this for eternity.. and not only horsemen 
Damage changes: not necessary see many ranged shooting exclusively for rider or not bothering to target cavs at all even if their team was cav massacred
                             maybe some accuracy nerf for archmy old friend and xmy old friend will force them to cooperate...
Bump lovering: bump damage is good but I suggest some damage nerf for high agility users 24+ not much but some cause they are often bumped to death even when evade cavs attack.
Couching removal: this will hamper mostly arab side strafers so its good idea coz EU is polluted  by them.

And of course buff speed of heavy lance and add shield break for Ebill

[Arrowblood]

I'm a little wary of how this would make those 10 riding horse crossbowmen even harder to kill. Very interesting suggestions though.

fixed

[Ujin]

A well -written and thoughtful post, both yours and Maypex's. Not in a single sentence have i suggested any kind of a buff to cavalry in my post.

Gotta love people who attack anyone who doesn't instantly agree with every cav nerf suggestion there is. I guess i'm like a red cape for you little bullies.

[BADPLAYER_old2]

A big NO to the increased melee damage, it already does a lot if the hit is solid and especially if the legs of the horse get  hit.  What's "Bad Cavalry"? Making all cav players play in the same way is not a good idea, if someone's riding on a heavy armored horse he should be able to at least try and ride into groups of enemies and cause havoc . It's a 50/50 chance of survival even now , so keep it the way it is. The leg slashing mechanic does it's job well enough , the less spammy players who actually think before they click can kill even heavy horses fast enough.
One more point i'd like to add in my edit : if the shield forcefield is gone there will be even less need for increased melee damage to horses. No need to elaborate here , i hope.

Bump damage- it's not that huge against armored enemies now anyway. I can see the frustration if a non armored horse charges you and bumps you for alot of damage, but I play as infantry a lot and i don't think i was ever really that annoyed by the bump damage, but then again i have 50ish body armor (0 IF though). I still think that heavy horses should keep their charge damage, it's one of the reasons they have a much higher upkeep and it's their purpose, plus they are much easier to dodge/dodge slash anyway,

The only reason I really want those nerfs is from personal experience using champion cataphract and mamluk and how broken they are vs melee players.
Right now on a mamluk the amount of times you can make mistakes vs melee players is pretty huge, even when I get reared by a pike I can just turn and run away unless they have like great mauls nearby or becs/steel picks. I just feel that if a cav player makes a mistake he should die for it, the class already gets some pretty great advantages being able to pick and choose every fight they want, run away from anyone else and ect that they don't need to be able to take so much damage too.

Same reason with the bump damage, I have literally 2hit archers by just bumps on a mamluk and that mustn't be very fun for them. I think heavy cav should be basically immune to ranged which right now sadly they arent, but are instead pretty much immune to melee.

[oprah_winfrey]

Same reason with the bump damage, I have literally 2hit archers by just bumps on a mamluk and that mustn't be very fun for them. I think heavy cav should be basically immune to ranged which right now sadly they arent, but are instead pretty much immune to melee.

As an archer, just a destrier takes about a 1/4 of my health. It is pretty annoying to get bumped to death by noskilledbumpcavthatdon'teventryandlanceyou.

[Kafein]

As an archer, just a destrier takes about a 1/4 of my health. It is pretty annoying to get bumped to death by noskilledbumpcavthatdon'teventryandlanceyou.

If you get bumped by cav, that means you literaly didn't even tried to dodge it.

[oprah_winfrey]

If you get bumped by cav, that means you literaly didn't even tried to dodge it.

Are you telling me you have never been bumped by cav?

[Ujin]

The only reason I really want those nerfs is from personal experience using champion cataphract and mamluk and how broken they are vs melee players.
Right now on a mamluk the amount of times you can make mistakes vs melee players is pretty huge, even when I get reared by a pike I can just turn and run away unless they have like great mauls nearby or becs/steel picks. I just feel that if a cav player makes a mistake he should die for it, the class already gets some pretty great advantages being able to pick and choose every fight they want, run away from anyone else and ect that they don't need to be able to take so much damage too.

Same reason with the bump damage, I have literally 2hit archers by just bumps on a mamluk and that mustn't be very fun for them. I think heavy cav should be basically immune to ranged which right now sadly they arent, but are instead pretty much immune to melee.

Depends on what the enemies are doing, if they rear your horse and focus you, you're most likely dead, if not - you get out with some decent damage taken.This is what heavy cav is for, otherwise there would be no difference between armored and  non-armored horses ,except fot the bigger upkeep and worse movement stats.

As for archer bumping - it's a viable and smart way to kill an archer. You come at a guy like Bagge or Peljaen with your lance ready and 8/10 times you'll get a headshot. Hold your shield up and try to bump them and then you get a better chance, although if they pay attention they can still jump away and shoot your horse. Archers are the most lightly armored infantry out there with a ranged weapon that can 1 shot almost anyone (headshot) and it doesn't take them that long to focus fire even the heavier horses. Do you also get annoyed when you get 1shot by a 2hander that managed to get to you ?

[oprah_winfrey]

As for archer bumping - it's a viable and smart way to kill an archer. You come at a guy like Bagge or Peljaen with your lance ready and 8/10 times you'll get a headshot. Hold your shield up and try to bump them and then you get a better chance, although if they pay attention they can still jump away and shoot your horse. Archers are the most lightly armored infantry out there with a ranged weapon that can 1 shot almost anyone (headshot) and it doesn't take them that long to focus fire even the heavier horses. Do you also get annoyed when you get 1shot by a 2hander that managed to get to you ?

I can block a sword, I can't block a horse.

[Ujin]

I can block a sword, I can't block a horse.

You can dodge it. Just the same as when you can block a 2hander when he doesn't jump you.

[oprah_winfrey]

You can dodge it. Just the same as when you can block a 2hander when he doesn't jump you.

Oh yeah I forgot about that. But I'm not sure, because I seem to remember there generally being more then one horse in the sever at a time.

[Ujin]

Oh yeah I forgot about that. But I'm not sure, because I seem to remember there generally being more then one horse in the sever at a time.

You know, it's just as uncomfortable for me as a rider when multiple archers shoot my horse as it is for you to get attacked by multiple cav ? =)

[Kafein]

You know, it's just as uncomfortable for me as a rider when multiple archers shoot my horse as it is for you to get attacked by multiple cav ? =)

Except two archers cannot possibly block each other's path trying to attack the same guy. The cav can, and it turns both of them into "shoot me" signs.

Are you telling me you have never been bumped by cav?

The amount of times I've been bumped when I was actually trying to avoid it is almost negligible. When a horse goes slow enough to hit someone with a good degree of certainty, the bump doesn't even do any damage. Except when I'm fighting someone and that this bump ends up knocking me down (which is very uncommon at low speeds), it has no effect on me.

[Malaclypse]

The amount of times I've been bumped when I was actually trying to avoid it is almost negligible. When a horse goes slow enough to hit someone with a good degree of certainty, the bump doesn't even do any damage. Except when I'm fighting someone and that this bump ends up knocking me down (which is very uncommon at low speeds), it has no effect on me.

I agree that while actively trying to avoid it, it's very hard for someone with "just enough" riding to nail somebody with their horse 1 on 1. Being able to barrel through entire groups is something else though, and something which happens often enough.

The problem I have with the bump is that past a certain velocity, it's 100% knockdown "chance", whether the person you hit is friend or foe, and the bump itself does too much damage for what is just pressing W at someone.

The only thing that someone has to pay for these uber-moves is skill points (like a melee having to pay for Power Strike or a thrower for Power Throw- except it's a combined effect and also gives movement and maneuverability, so it's like Power Strike + Athletics in one go, the extra damage being generated by raw speed) and gold (and the gold cost isn't really an issue at all after selling one heirloom point or wearing cloth for awhile).

I just don't think that such huge advantages are deserved.