Author Topic: "The Way of the Flamberge" updated 23rd Sept 2011  (Read 28323 times)

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Offline RandomDude

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"The Way of the Flamberge" updated 23rd Sept 2011
« on: January 06, 2011, 02:38:00 am »
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Author's Foreword

Hello, fans.

Some people say to me: "Random, i truly want to emulate you but this flamberge thing is unlike any other 2-handed sword out there, it's so different as to be almost in a new weapon class of it's own."

In response i say to them "Yeah, well the flamberge isnt for everyone. It's slow. Can be unwieldy. It's a bitch for tk'ing friendlies who're behind you when you do an overhead and if you think you can duel with it as well as a cookies or tears, you're very much mistaken."

If the above doesnt deter you, then get your reading glasses, put the kettle on, and get those crumpets buttered cos dammit, this is gonna be the best read your two little tit-checkers ever got to see.

Disclaimer :
(click to show/hide)

The Path

So, you've got your extremely large bag of gold jingling in your pocket and you've made your way through smelly streets and peasant-filled cess pits to find an overweight, slightly bored weapons dealer who's more interested in itching his arse than making an effort to sell to you.

In his place, I shall answer your questions;

Q What are the benefits of the flamberge?

A Simply put - Damage and reach, damage and reach. I can't count the number of times i've whacked people over the head in one or 1-hit horse and rider with my trusty blade. I also couldn't tell you how many times i've caught an opponent out by hitting him when he thought he was outside the "danger zone" of combat with a (directional) right slash.

It's very possible to take cav out with your reach, especially when they ride past you thinking they're also out of the "danger zone".

It's also just fucking big. Any two-handed melee lover must be awed by the sheer beauty and scale of the thing. It's like wielding a finely carved sky scraper. Also, no weapon can match its sheer greatness when it's covered in blood.

Q So what are the downsides then?

A It's slow. I mean really slow. Currently you can increase the speed to 87 via heirlooming. 87 speed is among the slowest weapons in crpg at the moment. Devs constantly tweak item stats so this may not be true in the future.

Q But dude, u spam my 1h char like a bitch, how can u say it's slow?

A Like I said previously, young flamberger, it's an art.

Q Anything else?

A Yeah, it's a lot harder to duel people for me using my flamberge than with my other 2 handers, mainly because of the speed and the loss of your reach advantage when face-hugged. It's also not a shield-breaker. Oh and its length means fighting indoors or near walls can really screw you over, because the blade catches and doesnt swing.

In saying this, my guide can now smoothly turn over to "The Art"

The Art

Q So teach me, great Flamburger-King, the art of the flamberge.

A There's no question mark so is that really a question? Nvm - here goes.

How do we kill? Preferred method is an overhead to their unprotected back. Nearly always 1 hit 1 kill with the head-hit bonus (and often archers wear no head armour at all). Recent changes to player builds (heavy str) and armour soak values have reduced the 1-hit kill potential drastically. It's still a good finisher though, especially in groups.

Best results tend to be within the outer-reaches of the flamberges blade. Too close and it can be easy to miss or fuck it up so you only scratch them. Then the game is up and you have to do some actual fighting to kill them.

You also do more damage for being in the "sweet spot" of the weapon too.

Soloer or Group? The masters will usually try to flank the enemy a little (and so hit their unprotected backs), but with some team work (especially from cav) you can do a frontal charge and slaughter the enemy by the dozen.

How do I beat shielders? You may see some flamberges repeatedly hit a shield until it breaks. This takes time and the more time it takes for you to kill this guy, the less time you have to kill everyone else.

With your high athletics you will be constantly strafing either left or right, trying to get the shielder to make a mistake so they are at least side on, and then whack them over the head or use the correct side slash.

I still sometimes spam a shield or enemy, but also use them as a human body shield (as they backpedal) so i can get to an unaware opponent behind them or easy archer kill etc.

Some 1hs like to face hug, especially steel pick users. They really hurt and are annoying, but try to learn when and how to kick and you can score an easy hit (as well as making them more wary).

(click to show/hide)

The Spam

Usually choose the (directional) right slash, and keep doing it until there's nobody to do it on any more. This is possibly the most famous skill of The Way. I also tend to make lots of tk's using it :(

Then again, if everyone is dead and you are last man standing, you win, right?

The Feint

Can't believe i nearly forgot to put this in; feinting is key vs anyone who has more than one hand. You need to be FAST with your feints because your flamberge is SLOW and this is the only way you can make people panic and fuck up enough to give you an opening - obviously this is harder to perform vs good duellers. Changing swings from horizontals to verticals are best as it's easier to make manual blockers mess up.

The Chamber

The upwards chamber block (attacking an enemy with your overhead, a fraction after they attack you with an overhead or thrust) is the basic method of killing shielded spearmen. Dont use it vs fast melee because they can hit you with a slash even after you chamber them (ITS TRUE!). Doesnt always work, but often catches them unawares. Can result in your death if you fuck it up, as always.

For safety, It's recommended to block the first thrust to get an idea of his timing (its not uncommon for them to slightly hold their next attack though, so watch for it or you'll be raging in *Dead* chat.

Once you've become proficient at chamber blocks, its quite useful in battle/siege (side swing chambers + thrust chambers) as most people dont expect it.

The Footwork

Athletics is a must, even if you use light armour. The ability to circle around enemies, making them team hit or present their arse to you, is possibly the strongest ability of The Way.

If you wear heavy armour I cant stress the importance of athletics too. It's too easy for a slow tincan to be surrounded and slaughtered.

The Block

Yes, we do block. Rule of thumb is - if they block your swing and then attack, you block them back. Then you either backpedal and choose The Spam/The Feint/Directional attack, OR you use the Footwork.

The Warrior

I was trying to avoid telling people how to make their 2h characters, but as more and more new players play, i'd rather just say it once than keep telling them in-game;

(click to show/hide)

Directional attacks

The (directional) left swing is the least used but once you've learned its arc of death you can aim it quite well and it often disembowels an oppenent to your left side who thought they were not in danger.

The overhead is the most used in groups in The Way, and can cleave horse and man with one mighty stroke (once you've sidestepped the lance, that is). It's also the most precise and efficient way of killing a large group of foes who are unaware of you.

The (directional) right attack is used in The Spam, and is used when facing aware opponents. Often you can kill multiple opponents with this as they come into range, trying to avenge your previous attacker, one by one.

The thrust. Has become necessary in siege now and in tight spaces anywhere. Very possible to 1 hit kill with this + speed bonus + pierce damage.

As the first rough guide to The Way of the Flamberge, in written format, I will make changes over time so as to fully reveal the true power and teachings of the flamberge.

Other tips and tricks
Try standing behind a friendly stationary, friendly 1h while he blocks and swing thru him. I get so many kills on siege doing this. The same tactic can be used in moving fights but its a lot easier to tk doing this (yeah if i tk'd you then there's probably a 25% chance I was trying to use this technique and failed. invalid as of latest patch

A similar but safer method is to jump slash. Imagine your team mate is fighting an enemy and just made an attack, the enemy will now probably make his attack. Now is the time to run forward, jump and slash the guy in the face. Your team mate will take your enemy's blow (by either blocking it or just taking the full force) and your enemy will have no time to block your jump slash. As long as you remember to aim your slash at your enemy you cant go wrong. I dont think ive ever tk'd someone using this move.

Another trick that any melee can use is this: In any 2 v 1 situation where you are part of the "2" you should time your attack so yours lands while your ally is "recovering" his stroke. You truly can spam someone to death using this and the only way they can survive is via footwork or outside help.

Another pro tip - never fight an enemy from the front when you can backstab him.


Remember, keep swingin' it!

Tried and tested builds (usable)

18 Str 21 Agi, 6 Ps 7 Wm 7 Athletics 3 IF (good for plate users)
21 Str 18 Agi, 7 Ps 6 Wm 6 Athletics 4 IF
24 Str 15 Agi, 8 Ps 5 Wm 5 Athletics 5 IF (powerful build and not too slow)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 02:29:25 am by RandomDude »

Offline KingBread

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Re: "The Way of the Flamberge"
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2011, 04:47:53 am »
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Random make a step forward and create own religion :)
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Offline Baggy

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Re: "The Way of the Flamberge"
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2011, 04:56:05 am »
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Oh Grand Master of the Order of the Mighty Flamberge I approve :D(i haz a spamberge as well)
+1
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Offline ShinySpoons

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Re: "The Way of the Flamberge"
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2011, 10:12:22 am »
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Just chipping in to emphasize the importance of feinting. The feint's with the flamberge is quite disconcerting seeing as you're moving a big ass 5lb weapon like it's a chopstick. Just because it has a slow weapon speed doesn't mean it feints slower as well. Against a good opponent, spamming and back pedalling won't work. every time you attack it's a pretty big commitment so make sure you're going to hit ;)


Offline RandomDude

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Re: "The Way of the Flamberge"
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2011, 03:21:43 pm »
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Just chipping in to emphasize the importance of feinting. The feint's with the flamberge is quite disconcerting seeing as you're moving a big ass 5lb weapon like it's a chopstick. Just because it has a slow weapon speed doesn't mean it feints slower as well. Against a good opponent, spamming and back pedalling won't work. every time you attack it's a pretty big commitment so make sure you're going to hit ;)

Yes, this is quite true and the novice's can often trip up at these times.

It is a long, hard path and even I am still learning.

Sup Kingbread, i was going to steam u last night when i saw u playing but i was really tired and going to bed ^^
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 03:24:29 pm by RandomDude »

Offline Welcome_To_Hell

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Re: "The Way of the Flamberge"
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2011, 04:19:50 pm »
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Ive Heirloomed my Flam, +3 speed is awesome. Cutting people down with the right swing or the overhead is just awesome.

Offline Thomek

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Re: "The Way of the Flamberge"
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2011, 04:35:03 pm »
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I only rarely picked up the flamby from the ground, but from some experience fighting it, and getting killed by it may I add some useful tricks?

1. Holding the chambered weapon slightly longer than normal before release while backwalking.
Most people are on "auto" keeping their block only for a half second before attempting a new swing at ya. If timed right, you will release on them for a nasty insta-kill. (Aim for the head, easier with long range weps)

THIS ALSO HAS THE ABILITY TO CAUSE WEAPON STUN EFFECT, WHICH MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE OTHER 2H TO IMMEDIATELY STRIKE BACK.

2. The old backjump + slash.
Jump out of range of the attacker just after your swing, he will be tempted to swing at you, but instead of blocking, Jump away and hit him in the FACE!

Seriously, that weapon is overpowered. I dunno how.. but Georg could OUTSPAM MY BALANCED KATANA (106 speed) with it. True story. I had 30 Agi and 196 wpf in 2h, light armor as usual, while he was in full milanese as usual.  I didnt have a chance to return swing after I blocked. This happened repeatedly, as well as with Bulldog. wtf!! (He said I was too slow, but I think it might have something to do with a misalignement between the animation, the calculated hit, the block sound + ping issues. Who knows.

Anyway. Nerf it and make it unbalanced. I don't care if it's expensive.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 04:37:29 pm by Thomek »
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Offline RandomDude

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Re: "The Way of the Flamberge"
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2011, 06:20:03 pm »
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Ive Heirloomed my Flam, +3 speed is awesome. Cutting people down with the right swing or the overhead is just awesome.

Flamberges heirloom like great mauls now so we lost our +3 speed

I only rarely picked up the flamby from the ground, but from some experience fighting it, and getting killed by it may I add some useful tricks?

1. Holding the chambered weapon slightly longer than normal before release while backwalking.
Most people are on "auto" keeping their block only for a half second before attempting a new swing at ya. If timed right, you will release on them for a nasty insta-kill. (Aim for the head, easier with long range weps)

THIS ALSO HAS THE ABILITY TO CAUSE WEAPON STUN EFFECT, WHICH MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE OTHER 2H TO IMMEDIATELY STRIKE BACK.

2. The old backjump + slash.
Jump out of range of the attacker just after your swing, he will be tempted to swing at you, but instead of blocking, Jump away and hit him in the FACE!

Seriously, that weapon is overpowered. I dunno how.. but Georg could OUTSPAM MY BALANCED KATANA (106 speed) with it. True story. I had 30 Agi and 196 wpf in 2h, light armor as usual, while he was in full milanese as usual.  I didnt have a chance to return swing after I blocked. This happened repeatedly, as well as with Bulldog. wtf!! (He said I was too slow, but I think it might have something to do with a misalignement between the animation, the calculated hit, the block sound + ping issues. Who knows.

Anyway. Nerf it and make it unbalanced. I don't care if it's expensive.

Hmm i guess u really can teach old dogs new tricks, i rarely hold my swing at all and i didnt know you could cause stun with it.

The only time ive ever beaten a katana with flamberge is if we've both swung at the same time and he's bounced off my armour or i get a lucky strike in.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 06:24:28 pm by RandomDude »

Offline Ujin

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Re: "The Way of the Flamberge"
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2011, 06:26:20 pm »
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Seriously, that weapon is overpowered. I dunno how.. but Georg could OUTSPAM MY BALANCED KATANA (106 speed) with it. True story. I had 30 Agi and 196 wpf in 2h, light armor as usual
Anyway. Nerf it and make it unbalanced. I don't care if it's expensive.
Oh noez !!! The mighty katana spam didn't work with Georges !! Lmao Thomek :D . He didn't outspam you btw, he doesn't have 30 + agi and 106 speed , he's just a good player.

Offline Thomek

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Re: "The Way of the Flamberge"
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2011, 01:33:57 am »
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Perhaps :-)

But I'm also not a half-bad player, and Bulldog is a good player too.. :-)
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Offline Farrok

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Re: "The Way of the Flamberge"
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2011, 02:16:06 am »
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Seriously, that weapon is overpowered. I dunno how.. but Georg could OUTSPAM MY BALANCED KATANA (106 speed) with it. True story. I had 30 Agi and 196 wpf in 2h, light armor as usual, while he was in full milanese as usual.  I didnt have a chance to return swing after I blocked. This happened repeatedly, as well as with Bulldog. wtf!! (He said I was too slow, but I think it might have something to do with a misalignement between the animation, the calculated hit, the block sound + ping issues. Who knows.

Anyway. Nerf it and make it unbalanced. I don't care if it's expensive.

yeah unbalanced would be good...



about the outspamming: i think its because of weight. when he hit you and you block you will be stunned for a little time because his weapon is heavier and than he can hut again.


and
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Offline Kafein

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Re: "The Way of the Flamberge"
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2011, 11:57:35 am »
+1
This post is slightly similar to my tutorial about how tu use a lolaxe (now called long poleaxe). You got some good points.

Offline Pecores_Marzi_le_fourbe

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Re: "The Way of the Flamberge"
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2011, 01:39:05 pm »
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Hey i have to say that it's similar to the art of polearme use by guys like me :) i agree with all those points!

PS: block is useless if you have enough athletics  :arrow:  you can just run back at each hit. (ok im a lamer)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 01:48:43 pm by Pecores_Marzi_le_fourbe »
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Offline The_Newer_Wind

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Re: "The Way of the Flamberge"
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2011, 02:41:22 am »
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I love my flamberge!!!  :mrgreen:  I like hiding behind huge beams in sieges and when enemy comes i right swing and 1 hit kill them without them noticing! They dont see me so they are not ready!! Also I kill peasents!  :twisted:  Im a born spammer, but when i block i usualy cant stop and die since it is to slow, unless i drop and run, pick up and spam like hell!!  Also, you can get some a extra fast 2 hander with you if you for some reason duel.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 06:47:16 am by The_Newer_Wind »

Offline Hevi

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Re: "The Way of the Flamberge"
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2011, 03:07:37 pm »
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In dude we trust. +1 gj
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