Author Topic: VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS  (Read 2357 times)

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Offline Zisa

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VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS
« on: March 27, 2011, 10:10:53 pm »
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Here's the build to start the tests. let me say, if you want to rage, level a 30th level peasant as seen here.

----
Age 45 [30]
Experience 4464200
Level up at 8735843
Kills 114
Death 217
Attribute Points 0
Skill Points 14
Weapon Proficiency Points 250   

Strength 30 
Agility 12 

One Handed 1 [1 WPF cost]   
Two Handed 1 [1 WPF cost]   
Polearm 1 [1 WPF cost]   
Archery 1 [1 WPF cost]   
Crossbow 1 [1 WPF cost]   
Throwing 1 [1 WPF cost]   

Ironflesh 0 
Power Strike 0 
Shield 0 
Athletics 3 
Riding 0 
Horse Archery 0 
Power Draw 0 
Power Throw 0 
Weapon master * 0 
----

I took said gimp with 0 Power Throw and 1 wpf.
The following composite comprises of, from top left:
Where I threw from.
Then there are 2 images of each weapon:
standing still.
runnning in a straight line and throwing.

I use a trackball. Once the aim is set, removing one's thumb means the pointer will not move, not even a little bit. I attempted as best as I could to complete the throw while running from the same launch point as when standing still.
(click to show/hide)

Questions? More to follow as I alt tab while dead trying to grind out of this crap build. Any desired tests of PT10 wpf 138 should be requested before I hit lvl 31. (allready retired out)

same deal, stationary and moving, with PT1 wpf 1 using PT required 1 weapons:
(click to show/hide)

PT2, WPF1
(click to show/hide)

PT3, wpf1
(click to show/hide)

pt4, wpf1
(click to show/hide)

pt5, wpf1
(click to show/hide)

PT6, WPF1
(click to show/hide)

PT7, wpf1, 3rd pic is spread of long range throws.
(click to show/hide)

PT10, where there is 3, the 3rd is long range throw
(click to show/hide)

PT10, WPF138.
Also, heaviest armmor seems to spread the pattern.
lastly, comparing groupings of short and long range.
(click to show/hide)

Conclusions:
The difference between 0PT and 10 PT:
0 requirement weapons enjoy an accuracy increase with greater power throw.
This increase is more noticeable when the weapon is thrown while running forward.
(Compare 4 point shuriken, 0PT and 10PT)
High weapon poficiency will further increase that accuracy.
(compare with PT10, wpf138)

Further examination of the 4 point shuriken, if aiming at the center of mass, the grouping of PT10 high wpf clearly shows a 100% hit grouping on a non moving target. I estimate that darts (PT1) would hit 80-85% of the time.

WPF does indeed increase accuracy. It is inconclusive to me if the tale of 'wpf improving accuracy while moving' is valid, or if having greater inherent accuracy (from PT and wpf) creates a greater number from which to subtract any penalties from moving / weight/ etc.

Conjecture:
To get true pin point accuracy may require a power throw score of 10 over that required for the weapon. In theory, a PT14 100+wpf heavy axe thrower would have this accuracy - it is not a build I care to try myself.

I myself when throwing axes with less PT, 100+ wpf, but more athletics feel more accurate, though I have not tested this or measured it.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 07:07:13 pm by Zisa »
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Offline ShinySpoons

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Re: VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2011, 03:30:53 am »
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Interesting, about how far were you throwing from?

Also, will you be doing a wpf comparison between moving/stationary?

Offline Zisa

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Re: VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2011, 05:24:16 am »
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Just finished.
low req weapons can get a tight grouping with increased wpf.

mid req groupings are dissapointing.

high req groupings  - may as well wear armor and hope for luck with lances. Jarids seem decent.

I suspect athletcis can play a part as well, for I felt far more accurate with less PT and wpf on previous builds with higher athletics.

there is an archer perch on the duel server, it has a pine tree at the croner, that's where I threw from, ran to and threw. Long range was from the end of the archer perch.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 05:25:35 am by Zisa »
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Offline WaltF4

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Re: VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2011, 04:57:22 pm »
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let me say, if you want to rage, level a 30th level peasant as seen here.

Someone else knows my pain...

Great work Zisa. Do you have images of the minimized throwing reticules for the different weapons and PT levels? They could be used to produce the throwing version of this. It could be done as reticule size verses power throw instead of proficiency.

Offline Engine

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Re: VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 05:37:57 pm »
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Great work, Zisa. Always interesting to see data like this.

Walt, did you make the xbow chart? It's very cool!

Offline Zisa

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Re: VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 06:23:01 pm »
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Someone else knows my pain...

Great work Zisa. Do you have images of the minimized throwing reticules for the different weapons and PT levels? They could be used to produce the throwing version of this. It could be done as reticule size verses power throw instead of proficiency.
Haha and try testing when someone wants to play rodeo in the duel server, or some ninny insists on dueling my gimp. Got a screenie of one of em lying on the ground with a throwing lance stuck in him.

I have some pics with the reticules, but I was not planning on that so my data there is probably incomplete, sorry. Plus I retired out of this and sold most of the throwing weapons - since I am at some sort of soft cap for items. The reticule is more of a suggestion I find anyhow.
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Offline Banok

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Re: VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2011, 10:43:03 am »
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not sure what we are supposed to take from this. but +rep anyway

Offline Yaron

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Re: VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2011, 11:43:16 am »
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Quote
The first screenie composite shows each Power Throw required 0 weapon with 1 wpf. First is the location, both standing and where I attempted to throw from while running in a straight line. Using a trackball, the aim is constant as there is no need to move the ball.

Can you rewrite this sentence? I somehow don get what yo uwant to say with it =(


And how about a Conclusion? What's the way to go? 10 PT with 138wpf or better more atheltics and therefor less wpf or what ? :>
Quote
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Offline Dravic

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Re: VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2011, 12:41:53 pm »
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For me, this is the way to go for a perfect thrower. PURE. THROWER. IS. OVERPOWERED.

Level 31 (8 892 403 xp)

Strength: 42
Agility: 3
Hit points: 77
Converted: 18
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 0
Shield: 0
Athletics: 0
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 14
Weapon Master: 0
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 115

I played this build. You can throw stones with sniper accuracy. Javelins are accurate enough, that if you throw down the ladder, youre going to hit 70% of headshots. -.-

You can pickup any throwing weapon from the ground and you kill everything in up to 4 shots. I mean: stones can kill with 3-5 shots, but if you pick up, for instance, dart, 3 throws and you are done. Oh, and darts are accurate enough to take horses from about 30 meters. you just have to aim well.

Offline Elmetiacos

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Re: VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2011, 01:05:50 pm »
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We should have a Yadomejutsu skill so 2handers can parry thrown weapons  :D
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Offline Earthdforce

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Re: VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2011, 01:32:45 pm »
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(click to show/hide)
Have fun meleeing with that build..
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Offline Zisa

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Re: VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 07:08:44 pm »
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Can you rewrite this sentence? I somehow don get what yo uwant to say with it =(


And how about a Conclusion? What's the way to go? 10 PT with 138wpf or better more atheltics and therefor less wpf or what ? :>
Done.
Short version - just get 100/101/120 wpf, and the higher athletics.
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Offline Cyclopsided

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Re: VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2011, 05:47:05 am »
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For me, this is the way to go for a perfect thrower. PURE. THROWER. IS. OVERPOWERED.

Level 31 (8 892 403 xp)

Strength: 42
Agility: 3
Hit points: 77
Converted: 18
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 0
Shield: 0
Athletics: 0
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 14
Weapon Master: 0
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 115

I played this build. You can throw stones with sniper accuracy. Javelins are accurate enough, that if you throw down the ladder, youre going to hit 70% of headshots. -.-

You can pickup any throwing weapon from the ground and you kill everything in up to 4 shots. I mean: stones can kill with 3-5 shots, but if you pick up, for instance, dart, 3 throws and you are done. Oh, and darts are accurate enough to take horses from about 30 meters. you just have to aim well.
All of the shurikens are more accurate and damaging than stones, particularly 4 point shurikens as they have the highest shoot speed of all the throwing weapons. 13 PT + 100 wpf Throwing 4points? oh. my. god. It is like firing a war bow. as a machine gun. But accurate while moving. and does more damage.
Not sure why everyone always mentions stones, they actually ARE the worst of the throwing, well, maybe throwing knives are just as bad.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 05:49:29 am by Marathon »
Also, I have declared myself #1 NA hybrid thrower
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Offline Seawied

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Re: VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2011, 08:49:38 am »
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(click to show/hide)

You just described my exact throwing build I made back in January. Its a joke.

You're much better off with less converted points and some PS, agility, or athletics. You're slow, you can't fight to save your life in melee. You're basically a giant glass cannon.


Sure, rocks are accurate, but they're so slow that you still need to be close in order to throw them. Being close=very dangerous for this build.









Anywho, it would be interesting to see what your accurate distance was for these "long-ranged" throws. Long is a relative term, and a lot of this data hinges on that factor. Great job with the pictures and taking the time to put this together.
So with PT >10 stones become simple too effective
:lol:

Offline Spawny

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Re: VISUAL THROWING ANALYSIS
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2011, 10:54:02 am »
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Been messing around with rocks and PT 11 yesterday. The damn things fly so slow I have to get close to hit reliably. Might aswell take a different weapon instead. I made a kill with rocks, where I threw at the archer. He sidestepped to dodge, stepped back to dodge my next throw and took my first rock in the face.

I got the most kills with javelins and throwing axes. I'll mess around with the 4 point shurikens tonight.

Oh yeah, my build will be 10 PS, 12 PT and 1 WM at level 30. I find it effective in sieges, but lacking in battles. The REALLY slow speed and ineffectiveness in melee (even with 10 PT, not having wpf hurts) makes it hard to get out of trouble. In sieges it's great to snipe archers with darts when attacking and hurl javelins/axes down ladders as a defender.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 10:56:42 am by Spawny »
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The problem is even if you are number 1 in NA you are still only number 467 in EU or the worst in AUS(number 17)