Ideas for introducing Cha/Int into c-RPG

[Duke]

I mean for this to be a collaborative thread, so please post your own ideas in addition to feedback on mine.  I am assuming Int and Cha would start at 3, like Str and Agi, but they could always be lowered to 0 if needed.

Charisma
Would have a specialty line of medium armor & weapons that factor Str & Cha into the requirement.  So if there's a 'Leader Armor' with Req 15, then Str + Cha must = 15+.  You could have a Str of 9 and Cha 6, for example.  Ideally these items would be slightly weaker / more expensive than a normal Str 15 item, but close enough in quality to make Cha builds viable.

Note: You could still use these weapons with 0 Cha (for non-Cha users, but the extra gold cost would make it frivolous)

Leadership skill (Charisma)
Allow a permanent 'buff aura' around the character, such as +2.5% damage/armor/shield bonus per Leadership level.   The aura applies to yourself as well.  I am talking about one aura boosting all 3, but it could be broken down to specific boosts if needed. If nothing else, breaking them down would allow more 'Leaders' per team.
Same-type Auras do not stack, however. (takes the highest friendly aura).  Too many 'leaders' on a team would generally be a bad thing.

If the buff were done separately, there would be different Banners that must be bought and equipped into a slot.  I suppose this could give a person reason to buy & equip three different banners, lol....

At any rate, Leadership skill level would be the Req for equipping these items.

Trade skill (Charisma)
Lowers repair costs 5% per level (not purchase cost).  Arguably 10% per level. Might need to re-dub it "Repair skill" for this reason.  I think lowered purchase cost would be too exploitable, i.e. roll a high Trade character, buy all the expensive stuff, then retire...

Intelligence
I had a thought in the Gold Sink thread about Masons/Carpenters being able to repair structures. Most useful on Siege defense naturally, it could still be applied to ladders and siege walls in other situations. Intelligence and Engineering could be adapted to that idea:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1758.msg39897.html#msg39897

I am unsure if Intelligence should give 1 extra skill point like in Native, but I think it should.  On one hand, Int would have no benefit towards better weapons or armor on its own, but it could have some very useful skills. (Namely Healing.) Please discuss.

Engineering skill (Intelligence)
Req for purchasing greater hp ladders/siege walls/etc. Could also erect the items faster per level.

Healing (First-Aid) skill (Intelligence)
Restores non-lethal damage by 7.5% per level, via aura. Applies to yourself and teammates.  Meaning damage received is applied first, the skill will not save you from 1-shot kills. If you/your teammate survive the hit, you get 7.5% back (per Healing level).  Again, this aura does not stack with other Healing auras, but it does stack with a Leadership aura. I would round number .5 or higher up to the nearest whole number, like normal math rounding.

This will not save you from massive falling damage, and it only applies if you are in an ally Healing Aura at the time of the injury, it cannot be healed afterward.

Example:

You take 40 damage, but you survive.  You, or a nearby teammate, had lv 3 Healing so that's 22.5% hp restored (9 hp).

Or you take 5 damage and live, and you/ally has lv 3 healing: you get 1.125 hp back, rounded down to 1 hp.

I came to 7.5% per level because 5% seemed too weak, and 10% was OP.  (At 10%, anyone with lv 10 Healing would completely heal any non-lethal damage...) Keep in mind, to have this skill you'd have to defer stat points to Intelligence AND skill points to Healing.

Furthermore, you could require a medic banner or medical kit that takes up 1 slot and has its own costs and repairs, to further commit the player who wants to fill this role.

Path-finding skill (Intelligence)
?????
I don't know what % boosts Athletics give, so it's hard to say what boost this should be... I would say 1 Path-find is weaker than 1 Athletics, but combined it could make for an interesting ninja group. I would say require it have a Banner buff too, or at least require 1 slot equipped (such as a 'Map' item)

Perhaps it could also lower any walking/falling noise you & nearby allies make. Debatable whether it should lower all sounds you make, such as drawing weapons. (Would be the 'ninja' skill)

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I'm not going to aggressively push any of these ideas, I just like to think of things.  I do think c-RPG would be more interesting with more stat-trees, however.  I tried to take cues from the Native skills.

[1slander]

How about this -

Charisma affects your bard skill and the bonus radius put off by your equipped instruments.  The instruments have positive or negative affects, maybe both.  Perhaps travel speed, weopon speed, armor bonus, whichever.  But it would act as an aura to those in a specified radius surrounding.  I guess different instrument lines would do different things, perhaps flutes would increase travel speed, harps would increase weopon speed, etc.  You would equip an instrument in any of your 4 slots.  There could also be instruments with adverse affects for enemies.

This begins the introduction of /dance

Intelligence controls seige equipment as stated, great idea!  It could also affect what lvl of instrument a player is able to equip and use.


I WANNA BE A BATTLE BARD!!!!!!

[Christo]

How about this -

Charisma affects your bard skill and the bonus radius put off by your equipped instruments.  The instruments have positive or negative affects, maybe both.  Perhaps travel speed, weopon speed, armor bonus, whichever.  But it would act as an aura to those in a specified radius surrounding.  I guess different instrument lines would do different things, perhaps flutes would increase travel speed, harps would increase weopon speed, etc.  You would equip an instrument in any of your 4 slots.  There could also be instruments with adverse affects for enemies.

This begins the introduction of /dance

Intelligence controls seige equipment as stated, great idea!  It could also affect what lvl of instrument a player is able to equip and use.

I WANNA BE A BATTLE BARD!!!!!!

Ever played Lotro? Give it a try. 

I would like to have these as well, to make the game more personal, so that our characters can react, dance, taunt, etc. The only problem I see is that this is a game what is about two teams who has to kill each other in a time limit. So we have no time for socialization, for fun. For such things to get in, the game would need to become much more like an RPG, not a Bow&Throw Hack/slash grindfest.

[Duke]

I would like to have these as well, to make the game more personal, so that our characters can react, dance, taunt, etc. The only problem I see is that a game which is about two teams who has to kill each other in a time limit. So we have no time for socialization, for fun. For such things to get in, the game would need to become much more like an RPG, not a Bow&Throw Hack/slash grindfest.

Well, I'd like to see a co-op version of c-RPG, basically a c-RPG version of Invasion (as I've said in another post somewhere) 

This is sort of getting off topic, but I think it would work as long as it used the same database but had lower payout/repairs (because co-op would be easy to farm)

[Christo]

Path-finding skill (Intelligence)
?????
I don't know what % boosts Athletics give, so it's hard to say what boost this should be... I would say 1 Path-find is weaker than 1 Athletics, but combined it could make for an interesting ninja group. I would say require it have a Banner buff too, or at least require 1 slot equipped (such as a 'Map' item)

Perhaps it could also lower any walking/falling noise you & nearby allies make. Debatable whether it should lower all sounds you make, such as drawing weapons. (Would be the 'ninja' skill)

The only problem with this is that currently a man in plate armour with a big ass Flamberge makes no noise at all, he can sneak up on you with 2 teammates, or even more. For such a noise reduction skill, a noise increase is needed to make it viable, and think about it..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlfrmCUGoKE
Not really quiet, yes? Also it would be nice to hear that Full Metal terminator moving around, if done properly, it can be epic.

[1slander]

The only problem with this is that currently a man in plate armour with a big ass Flamberge makes no noise at all, he can sneak up on you with 2 teammates, or even more. For such a noise reduction skill, a noise increase is needed to make it viable, and think about it..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlfrmCUGoKE
Not really quiet, yes? Also it would be nice to hear that Full Metal terminator moving around, if done properly, it can be epic.

Wasn't much of a re-enactment fight was it?  Imagine if they were really fighting, that was like they were wiping something off eachothers faces.  Real knights - real Fights.  I bet that would make money in Hollywood.  Exactly like Girls Gone Wild but completely different.

[Captain_Georges]

This would be awesome. I'd skill for Cha immediately : D

[Christo]

Wasn't much of a re-enactment fight was it?  Imagine if they were really fighting, that was like they were wiping something off eachothers faces.  Real knights - real Fights.  I bet that would make money in Hollywood.  Exactly like Girls Gone Wild but completely different.

Yeah. Problem is I didn't found any footage like that. But it shows what I want.

[Duke]

The only problem with this is that currently a man in plate armour with a big ass Flamberge makes no noise at all, he can sneak up on you with 2 teammates, or even more. For such a noise reduction skill, a noise increase is needed to make it viable, and think about it..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlfrmCUGoKE
Not really quiet, yes? Also it would be nice to hear that Full Metal terminator moving around, if done properly, it can be epic.

You have a fair point, but currently there are no armor clanking sounds... so there'd be nothing to increase the volume of.  Also, this is only a tacked-on idea to my least sure suggestion.

[La Makina]

Because in c-RPG, there is "RPG"...

Intelligence could definitely be made worth if it give the necessary points to increase skills (like in Native). It could also cap some skills (for instance: to increase Riding above 6, a player would need both Agility and Intelligence to be above X). This could help monitoring the pace of advancement of characters to the highest levels without a level 31 soft cap.

I would also imagine that Intelligence determines the number of slots available for carrying equipments (aka Inventory Management skill). At the beginning, peasants would have one or two slots available. Characters would gain new slots by improving Intelligence and/or a related skill. This should be linked to another suggestion: 2H weapons and polearms should take 2 slots (since they are bigger). This would limit the number of dedicated archers wielding 2H weapons (they would tend to use 1h as a side weapon to keep space for additional arrows). This would also limit (but not forbid) archers carrying 60+ arrows as well as infantry with a pike, a 2h axe, a 2h sword and shield.

Regarding Charisma:

Lowering the upkeep and repair costs is definitely a good idea. It could also reduce the penalty for reselling items.

In Strategus, the amount of soldiers would be limited to Charisma. Also the number of fiefs, castles, villages owned (ok, I have never played Strategus...  ).

In line with the "Leader" equipment idea, I would limit the ability to heirloom/use items depending on the Charisma. Lordly armor should indeed be offered to someone of a noble attitude, not to the first coming thug. Heirloomed items would be capped to something like this:
Charisma between 3 and 11: +1
Charisma between 12 and 21: +2
Charisma between 22 and 30: +3
This would make triple heirloomed item the exception rather than the norm (as it will become... if this is not already the case).

I would like to see a battle cry ability (like in the Brytenwalda mod) which would be linked to Charisma (it costs some XP to use and it gives either some HP healing to your followers or a minus to morale to the ennemy). We can think of different battle cries with various effects (bonus, malus...). Why not an hypnotizing ability to the most charismatic one (remember Thulsa Doom charming Conan with a speech  )

A step further: Charisma would give a malus to ennemies' speed and/or damage when attacking you (1% malus per Charisma point above 10, so up to 20% at Charisma 30). In effect, it is harder to attack someone impressive (i.e. with high Charisma).... like it is easier to beat up ugly people. This would make Charisma interesting in a pure fighting game.

[Duke]

Regarding Charisma:

Lowering the upkeep and repair costs is definitely a good idea. It could also reduce the penalty for reselling items.

I like that amendment.

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Tactics skill (Intelligence)
+/- 3 seconds respawn time per level (individuals, not the whole team)

If you kill an enemy, you tack on extra respawn time.  Or if you die, you respawn sooner.  In Siege, if you kill a guy (even an attacker) you force them to sit out extra time. (Only if you are the one who killed them).  If you die, you simply respawn faster.  If both players in involved have Tactics levels, it uses the difference (Meaning if lv 3 Tactics kills lv 2, the lv 2 guy only receives 3 extra seconds not 9)

In Battle mode, perhaps it could allow Tactics players to spawn ahead of everyone else.   If not, we'd have to accept it's a Siege-only skill.... or think of a separate application for it. Such as a small % chance to respawn in Battle mode (4% per level?)

[jspook]

well..... this isnt really that kind of RPG, you know?
But...  I do like the idea of being able to sacrifice some attribute points for lower upkeep.
adding charisma att pts for upkeep would also spread some of the attributes a bit thinner on the tin cans, leveling it out a bit if they want lower upkeep.  so they will probably sacrifice a little agi for like 10% cost reduction.  this would probably also see the return of more of your favorite (hated) cav players on the field.  they would just have to learn a slightly diff play style to compensate for the lack of 36 str.  heh.

[Delro]

If the only thing to come out of this is some sort of healing skill/class, I will be ecstatic. Great suggestion!

I would put forward the notion, though, that healing should be a targeted ability (point at your teammate and hold F, like raising a ladder) rather than an aura, to make it so people aren't just getting healed back mid-combat. Perhaps even a Left 4 Dead style animation lock that would prevent the person getting healed from fighting while regaining HP.

[Duke]

If the only thing to come out of this is some sort of healing skill/class, I will be ecstatic. Great suggestion!

I would put forward the notion, though, that healing should be a targeted ability (point at your teammate and hold F, like raising a ladder) rather than an aura, to make it so people aren't just getting healed back mid-combat. Perhaps even a Left 4 Dead style animation lock that would prevent the person getting healed from fighting while regaining HP.

If we did it your way, I'd want a severe limit on it via ammo.  There could be heal-kits you must buy and equip, with the Healing skill as a Req for using them.  There could be different kinds of kits, such as higher ammo ones that are faster but heal less per usage and then there are ones that are fewer and slower, but heal much more.  Each kit would be 1 slot.  Dedicated medics could carry 4 kits, then pick up a sword of a fallen comrade when needed.

One major problem, though, is the inability to see ally health.  We could really use a "Medic!!" voice command if this ever happened.  I'd also want a Minimum Req of Healing lv 2 on the kits, similar to horses.  I wouldn't want any player being able to dump 1 skill point into Healing, since people would (presumably) start with 3 Intelligence.

[Sultan Eren]

Consider this too. http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,684.msg9920.html#msg9920