Game mechanic megathread!

[Elmokki]

There was discussion about exact game mechanics on irc and people have pretty scattered info on what works how so I figured out we should gather stuff together. Just post on this thread the stuff I'm missing or have written wrong and I'll collect it!

For a more throughout guide to the game see http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9245.0.html. This thread is aimed only at collecting as precise data on mechanics as possible in a very condensed format for easy checking of specific things.

Stats
Strength gives 1 hp and 1/5 damage per point (thanks to Tydeus)
Agility gives approximately 1/4 or 1/5 of one point of athletics in run speed (thanks to Gurnisson for pointing it out and WaltF4 for mechanics)

Skills
- Power strike gives 8% melee damage per point
- Power draw gives 14% damage with bows per point
--> Only bow difficulty + 4 points of power draw will be taken to account. For example using nomad bow (difficulty 3) with 9 power draw would result in only 7 power draw being effective (MrShine).
- Power draw REDUCES your wpf by (14*PD)-((1.4)^PD) (Thanks to Lt_Anders for pointing it out). This is calculated before the weight wpf reduction. See http://forum.meleegaming.com/beginner%27s-help-and-guides/archer-build-41378/msg646130/#msg646130
- Power throw gives 10% damage with thrown weapons per point
- Power throw REDUCES your wpf by 13 per point. This is calculated before the weight wpf reduction. There's a possibility this is wrong and the real formula is something closer to the power draw one.
- Ironflesh gives 2 hp

- Shields increases shield "force field", speed and reduces incoming damage to the shield by 8% (not sure if it's before shield's damage reduction or after)
- Horse archery reduces accuracy penalty of mounted ranged combat by 10% and reduces damage penalty of throwing weapons and bows while horseback by 1.9% per point (10 points being equal to 99% of non-mounted damage)
- Weapon master gives you a set amount of profiency points to spend. First point gives 30, second 40, third 50 and so on.
- Riding increases horse speed, manouverability and acceleration.

Maximum level of a skill is it's base attribute / 3, meaning that at level 18 of strength Power Strike can be 18/3 = 6 at most. An exception to this is Horse Archery, which requires 6 skill per level, so at 18 agility you could have just 18/6 = 3 levels of it.

Skills are distributed between stats like this:
Strength: Power strike, Power throw, Power draw, Ironflesh
Agility: Shield, Riding, Athletics, Weapon master, Horse archery

The difficulty attribute on items determines a minimum level of strength to use them unless they are shields, bows or throwing weapons. For shields the minimum level of shield skills determines if you are able to use the item, for bows this is power draw and for throwing weapons this is power throw.

(Source for bonus damage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKfuS6gfxPY&feature=player_embedded#!)

HP determination
Every character has base hp of 35. In addition to this you will gain:
+ 1 hp for each point of strength.
+ 2 hp for each point of ironflesh.

Ranged accuracy
Weapon profiency has a big effect on accuracy as does the weapon accuracy stat. In addition every point of damage reduces accuracy by 1 and thus even though Long bow has the highest accuracy rating, it is actually the most innaccurate bow due to high damage.
(Source: _Sebastian_)


Armor weight
Armor weight modified proficiency = base proficiency * (1 - 0.01 * effective armor weight)
Effective armor weight = 2*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 4*hand armor weight - 10
(Source: WaltF4, updated 31.7.2012 based on the new formula)

This means that every point of armor weight with helmet weight multiplied by 2 and glove weight multiplied by 4  over 10 reduces your wpf by 1%. Or the same put other way, any effective armor weight from the above equation reduces your wpf 1% per 1 point.

Effective WPF
There are three possible factors reducing your wpf from what is listed on the character sheet. First reduce your wpf by 13 for each point of power throw, then reduce your wpf by 14 for each point of power draw and then remove 1% of remaining wpf for each point of effective weight. For effective weight, see armor weight chapter above.

The same mathematically:
(wpf - 13*pt - 14*pd) * (1 - effective weight / 100)

Movement speed
Movement speed depends on agility, athletics and weight.

- Moving backwards reduces movement speed by roughly 34%
- Rain reduces movement speed by roughly 7.8%
- Blocking reduces movement speed by roughly 15%

Along with this carried items reduce movement speed.

My testing suggests that the engine uses a single, total weight for the running speed calculations. This weight includes all items your character has on them: worn, sheathed, or unsheathed. Holding a weapon further reduces running speed based on the weapon length and weight. Holding a shield does not change running speed relative to wearing that shield, unless your character is holding one shield while wearing another shield; in which case, there is an enormous reduction in running speed.

(Source and more information: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3278.0.html)

Maintenance

There's a chance every minute for items you're wearing to break up resulting in them getting reduced stats until they are repaired. By default items will automatically be repaired when you have enough money. On average player can hold gear worth of roughly 50,000 and break even (Source: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,8400.0.html). This is a long term average though, and you should have a considerable reserve of money before trying to run around in gear of that price.

For weaponry wpf dictates the breaking chance while other items have a static chance which supposedly is somewhat higher for arrows and bolts. For melee weapons highest melee skill is chosen, so for example using a long spear with 1 polearm wpf while having 120 wpf in two handed uses the 120 wpf for breaking. For ranged this kind of mechanic isn't in effect, and bow breaking chance in determined by archery wpf etc.

Tears of Destiny at http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9245.0.html says that:

1wpf is about 11% [chance of breaking] where as 140 is 2.5% [chance of breaking] so it does make a difference.

Damage types
Weapons in Mount & Blade do a fixed amount of damage per swing. Armor damage reduction has a random element in it though. The effect of this is that at low armor damage variance is low: static 10%. At extremely high armor this variance can go as high as 90%ish. Next graph will show average of 40 damage attack against different armor levels. X-axis is amount of armor and Y-axis is amount of damage done after armor.

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The next graph shows minimum and maximum damages used to calculate the above graph.

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To compare, below are the same graphs with 20 raw damage instead of 40.

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Following is at 40 base damage:
- Pierce is about 5% weaker than blunt from 40 to 55 armor.
- Between 60 and 75 armor pierce is about 15% weaker than blunt.
- At 80 armor the difference is only around 7%.

- At 15 armor cut is about 11% weaker than blunt
- At 30 armor cut is about 24% weaker than blunt
- At 45 armor cut is about 37% weaker than blunt
- At 60 armor cut is about 45% weaker than blunt
- At 75 armor cut is about 50% weaker than blunt

Following is at 20 base damage:
- Pierce is about 10% weaker than blunt from 20 to 30 armor.
- Pierce is about 20% weaker than blunt from 35 to 40 armor.
- Pierce is about 15% weaker than blunt from 45 to 55 armor.
- After that the difference in damage jumps around between 25% and 67% depending on rounding, but in general the damage amounts for both weapons are ridiculously low already.

- At 15 armor cut is about 21% weaker than blunt
- At 30 armor cut is about 43% weaker than blunt
- At 45 armor cut is about 50% weaker than blunt
- At 60 armor cut is about 83% weaker than blunt
- At 70+ armor cut glances always

From this we can fairly safely assume this:
- Blunt is superior damage type. It deals the most damage and glances least easily. Especially at lower armor levels pierce has very close to the same damage output though.
- The higher the dealt base damage goes, the less pierce and blunt differ from each other. At 60 damage pierce is slightly better than blunt against medium tier armor and at above it becomes better in all categories. At 100 damage pierce is 7% better at 80 armor, 4% better at 40 armor and mariginally better at low armor levels.
- The higher the dealt base damage goes, the less cut proportionally suffers compared to pierce and blunt (45% weaker than blunt at 60 damage at most, 35% at 80)

Simplified:

Damage types with below 60 raw damage:
blunt > pierce > cut
Damage types with above 60 raw damage:
pierce > blunt > cut

Blunt is best if you have weak damage potential or expect to hit a lot with negative speed bonuses. Pierce is best if you have high damage potential. In reality though the difference at 100 base damage is very minor unless you're hitting very heavy armor.

The Excel spreadsheet used for this is available at: http://nikita.tnnet.fi/~elmokki/crpg-damage.xls


(Source and exact math at: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,23344.msg341355.html#msg341355).


Weapon modifiers
- Crushthrough has a chance of ignoring block on overhead strikes. This depends on strength and weapon weight. There is also a random element.
- Knockdown has a chance to knock down enemy on swings. This depends on weapon mass, but does contain a significant random element.

The mechanic for knockdown is (rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * min((raw_damage - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0) * 0.015) according to Paul (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,20938.msg299772.html#msg299772). How this kind of equation works is that the higher the right side value is, the higher the chance of success is. Percentual chance of success is the right side of equation.

This means two things affect knockdown chance. Weight of the item and raw damage of the swing. If we assume a hit does at least 40 raw damage, which is very likely for a decent hit from almost any weapon with knockdown with 5 PS or so, the knockdown chance boils down to min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * 0.15. This means that the maximum weight for this calculation is 6. This results in the knockdown chance being 0.0495 * item_weight, meaing 4.95% chance of knockdown per item weight (this could be rounded to 5% like Paul did, but 0.33 isnt 1/3 for exact chance). This allows tabling some weights:

Weight 1.5 (Hammer, Club): 7.425%
Weight 2.5 (Flanged Mace, Iron Mace, Goedendag): 12.375%
Weight 3 (Warhammer, Long Hafterd Spiked Mace): 14.85%
Weight 4.5 (Long Iron Mace, Bar Mace: 22.275%
Weight 6 and above (every crushthrough weapon): 29.7%

The effect of damage is a multiplier to this chance, min((raw_damage - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0). At 40 or more raw damage the multiplier is it's maximum (10), resulting in our assumed values above. Attacks below 20 raw damage cause the multiplier to be 0, meaning 0% chance of knockdown. Between 20 and 40 raw damage each point of raw damage increases the multiplier by 0.05. This means that the knockdown chance calculated above goes down by 5% per point of raw damage below 40 (for example 38 damage attack with a warhammer means 14.85% * 0.9 = 13.365% chance of knockdown). As said above though, in most practical cases most of these weapons will deal at least 40 raw damage with a decent hit, so that part of the equation is fairly meaningless.

- Unbalanced makes stopping a swing once it's started impossible.
- Bonus against shields gives 100% extra damage to shields and 10% to constructs (source: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9245.0.html)


Melee damage
Damage before armor is calculated by:

Code: [Select]

hold_bonus * (WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*(power_strike*0.08+1.0)+strength/5.0
Implications:
- Each power strike point is 8% extra damage
- 10 wpf is equal to 1.5% damage. You have a 15% damage penalty at 0 wpf compared to base weapon damage. At 100 wpf there is no penalty or bonus to damage.
- 5 strength gives 1 damage that isn't affected by modifiers.
- Holding your melee strike before releasing it gives you a damage bonus.
--> Holding for less than 0.5 seconds gives you a damage bonus of 5% per 0.1 seconds.
--> Holding for 0.5 to 0.6 seconds gives you a 25% damage bonus
--> After 0.6 seconds the damage bonus will diminish 3% per 0.1 seconds until it's 10% after 1.1 seconds of holding weapon down.
- If you use polearm with a shield or from horseback, you get -27.75% damage penalty
- If you use twohander with a shield or from horesback, you get -23.5% damage penalty if that twohander can be used with a shield (ie has onehander animations). If not, the penalty is -15%.
- Both cases above also have some sort of a speed penalty.

(Thanks to Tydeus for the exact mechanics of hold bonus and CaptainQuantum for the melee mechanics. They can be found also at http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,168722.msg4090900.html#msg4090900)

Melee reach
Animations for different weapon types have different effects on weapon reach.

Weapon lengths themselves aren't really comparable between weapon types. Animations add or reduce from the effective length of an attack. So in effect if you for example compare a thrust of a 120 length polearm (Bec de Corbin) and a 120 length twohander (Great Sword) they will NOT effectively reach the same lengths. Due to the way polearm is held polearm is from 15 to 61 units shorter depending on animation. This animation effect on reach is very noticeable especially with one handed weapon stabs. Even a short one handed sword can outrange a twohander or a polearm with a thrust in some cases. It's worth a note that polearms in general have longer options than twohanders to compensate for the shorter reaching animations.

1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80 (This may be slightly wrong with the new stab animation)

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

1h Polearms
Thrust = +50

(Source: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9245.0.html)

Melee swing speed
Weapon swing speed is affected by weapon speed rating and weapon profiency. Agility does not seem to have effect on swing speed. According to WaltF4's tests 100 wpf results in approximately ~6.5% faster swings. It is likely ranged shooting speed works the same way

To put this in perspective, a level 30 character with 3 agility, no weapon master, and 110 polearm proficiency would attack ~5% slower than a level 30 character with 27 agility, 9 weapon master, and 180 polearm proficiency if both characters were to use a speed 94 polearm. The absolute difference in time per attack between these two characters would be ~0.06 seconds. This is significantly less than the 12% difference in attack speed one would expect if agility was providing the purported 0.5% reduction in attack speed per point and the difference of 70 proficiency was ignored.

Only armor weight appears to matter for attack speeds (The wpf reduction effect -Elmokki). Holding a shield does not change the time taken to complete an attack. However, the delay between blocking an attack and beginning your own attack may be different if you block with a weapon compared to a shield. I would assume that the difference depends on the weights and speeds of both the attacking and blocking weapons and the shield.

For rough calculation of your actual attack speed you can try to approximate a swing timer for wpf 1 from WaltF4's graph below and multiplying that by (1 - wpf / 100 * 0.065).
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These numbers, however, are for a full swing from start to end. Actual combat in Mount & Blade involves hitting your enemy before the swing is completely finished, so all you can guesstimate from these really is comparable speed to other wpf-weapon setups.

(Source: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2531.0.html, WaltF4)


Ranged
- Bow raw damage before armor is calculated by:

Code: [Select]

raw_damage = (bow_damage + arrow_damage) * (archery_wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (min(power_draw, difficulty + 4) * 0.14 + 1) + strength / 5.0- Crossbow raw damage is a tad bit simpler:

Code: [Select]

raw_damage = crossbow_damage + bolt_damage- Throwing raw damage is similiar too:

Code: [Select]

Weapon_damage*(throwing_wpf*0.01*0.15+0.85)*(power_throw*0.1+1.0)+strength/5.0
Mounted throwers and bowmen (not crossbowmen) also will have their damage multiplied by

Code: [Select]

(horse_archery*0.019 +0.8)
(Thanks to CaptainQuantum for mechanics)

Implications for non-crossbows:
- 10 wpf is equal to 1.5% damage. You have a 15% damage penalty at 0 wpf.
- Maximum power draw bonus - obviously only for bows - is for (bow difficulty + 4) points of the skill, each point giving 14% damage bonus
- Throwing gains 10% damage per power throw
- All three forms of ranged damage gain 1 damage per 5 strength. This damage is not modified by any damage modifiers like power throw, power draw or wpf.
- Without horse archery a mounted thrower or bowman does 20% less damage. Each point of horse archery reduces this penalty by 1.9% (percentile units). At 10 HA the damage is 99% of normal.
- Rain reduces bow damage by 10%
- Strength gives 1/5 points of damage not affected by any negative or positive modifier

Implications for crossbows
- Rain reduces crossbow damage by 25%.

Crossbow shield penetration
For a crossbow to penetrate a shield it's damage will have to be above 30 + 3*(shield's armor). What this means is that without taking speed bonus (you running towards the shooter) into account a loomed arbalestman at close range will probably shoot through shields with less than 20 resistance (30 + 20*3 = 90 damage). At under 15 shield resistance (30 + 15*3 = 75 damage) you start to seriously risk getting your shield penetrated by a bolt.

(Source: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,19324.msg275435.html#msg275435)

Hit locations
Hitting someone in the head with a melee weapon gives 20% bonus damage or 75% with a ranged weapon. Hitting someone in the calf or thigh gives a 10% damage reduction, though you can still hit someone in the foot for 100% damage. All of these are applied at the absolute end of the damage calculation as well.
(Thanks to Tydeus)

Shield slot usage
The slot amount of shields is not shown on the website, but there is a general rule for it. Shields with weight 7.5 or below take 1 slot and shields with weight above 7.5 take 2 slots with the exception of Board Shield. Alternatively all shields that cost less than 4400 gold and the bucklers are less than 2 slots.

Skip the fun
This feature can be used once per week on a character. Only one character that STF has been used on can exist per account. It makes the character level 30, gives him 10,000 gold and removes ability to trade in market or respec. Only way to remove STF status is to remove the character. Even if you do remove character, you still do have to wait until the 7 days have passed to make a new STF character.

All thine work has payed off...
...has absolutely no effect in cRPG. It gives you 3 crafting profiency to every item you were wearing in Strategus and removes 1 crafting profiency from every other item you had profiency in.

Can Strategus gold be turned to cRPG gold?
You can transform 1 strategus gold to 10 crpg gold in towns, or you could trade with other players for possibly better rates.

The feature is disabled right now, so you have to trade with other players.

[MrShine]

Bow -> last I recall power draw stops providing its 14% boost once your power draw is >4 over your bow's PD requirements.  So for example if you are using a tatar bow (requirement 4) you will get a 14% damage boost from 5, 6, 7, and 8 PD, but anything over that will do nothing.

- I don't know the formula for this, but I think you get wpf penalties when you pass some PD threshhold... there is a point where I believe power draw increases your accuracy, but once you get past that point it actually makes you draw more slowly and be slightly less accurate.  No proof, sorry.

Armor weight: I think the magic number might be 7 weight, not 7.5.  Only quote I can find is like 6 months old so things may have changed since then but from WaltF4 (in a Gafferjack thread):

armor weight modified proficiency = base proficiency * (1 - 0.01 * effective armor weight)

and

effective armor weight = 3*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 2*hand armor weight - 7

But yeah you are right about head armor having an effective weight of * 3 what you see and gloves having an effective weight of *2 as far as wpf stuff is concerned.

Damage types: calculator makes it appear that blunt > pierce > cut assuming numbers are equal, however I think that may be incorrect (but have no proof).  I think pierce has a greater armor penetration value than blunt, while blunt has a better chance to avoid glancing than pierce.

Long and short of it about how I THINK they go is:  If you want to avoid glancing on someone, blunt is best (then pierce, then cut), whereas if you want to actually do damage with a swing through heavy armor pierce is best (then blunt, then cut).  Of course blunt weapons generally have knockdown so pick your poison.

Crushthrough -> chance is based on strength and weapon weight.  There is some random chance there too, I don't know the formula but you could probably seach the forums for it.

Melee - Again I wish I could find hard proof but I think your number .9 seconds is slightly off... I do agree I seem to recall holding a certain amount of time will give a greater damage bonus, while holding longer than that still gives a bonus but a smaller one.

[isatis]

for people interested to it, here the discussion from IRC

(click to show/hide)

18:26] == Isatis [[email protected]] has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[18:27] <Inkompetent> Completely depends on mood imho
[18:27] <Inkompetent> Just try different stuff and see what you like
[18:27] <fez_> i started a cav and hes low level but seems pretty cool so far
[18:27] <Inkompetent> You can make an alt and do Skip The Fun on it to insta-level to 30 and try another build
[18:27] <fez_> oh really
[18:27] <Inkompetent> ( Although you can only have one skip-the-fun-character at the time )
[18:28] <fez_> but my main guy stays?
[18:28] <Inkompetent> Cav is hard. Very hard. But also very powerful if you are good at it
[18:28] <Inkompetent> Yes
[18:28] <Inkompetent> You can have loads of characters
[18:28] <fez_> i heard skip lvl charecter cant buy at market is this true
[18:28] <Inkompetent> Just make a new character in-game, play a round, and it should appear for you on the website
[18:28] <Inkompetent> Only main character can use the market
[18:28] <Gurnisson> Cav hard
[18:28] <Gurnisson> I lol'd
[18:28] <Inkompetent> Which can be a skip-the-fun character
[18:29] <fez_> what do u mean main only, i have several charecters that buy stuff...confused
[18:29] <Inkompetent> Well, considering 2h-swords outreaches lances, a lot of the existing cav is very experienced and will fuck you up, and jinxing ranged isn't that easy
[18:29] <Inkompetent> Marketplace and Equipment is different things
[18:30] <Inkompetent> All characters can buy gear
[18:30] <fez_> oh
[18:30] <Inkompetent> Only the main character can use the Market-feature though, trading with other players
[18:30] <fez_> do you have insta level guy?
[18:30] <Inkompetent> Yes.
[18:30] <Inkompetent> I have 5 character
[18:30] <Inkompetent> *characters
[18:32] <Inkompetent> One samurai polearm/archer hybrid, one polearm-dude, one 1h/shield/thrower viking, one crossbowman, and one knight with 1h/shield/lance/horse
[18:33] <fez_> no 2h huh
[18:33] == Aemaelius [[email protected]] has quit [Signed off]
[18:34] <fez_> dam 2h mauls get me 1 hit every time with good armor on
[18:34] <Gurnisson> fez_, you have to spam maulers
[18:34] <Gurnisson> If you use 1H, use a lot of left swings
[18:34] <fez_> to slow to spam
[18:34] <Gurnisson> And don't try to block overheads
[18:35] <@Mylet> hmm, I usually just evade and use right swing to outreach
[18:35] <fez_> full plate 2h would be fun to play
[18:36] <Gurnisson> I usually use right swing first
[18:36] <Gurnisson> Then I will always force him to block first
[18:36] <Gurnisson> Then I start a spam of overheads and left swing, only blocking side swings
[18:36] <Gurnisson> Holding attacks from time to time to get high damage output
[18:37] <fez_> what does hold attack do?
[18:37] <Tydeus> ruined fort map sucks =/
[18:37] <@Mylet> warband slope movement sucks
[18:37] <Tydeus> truth
[18:38] <Gurnisson> fez_, holding attacks for 0.9 seconds gives x1.5 of normal damage
[18:38] <Tydeus> otherwise the map would be fine for the most part
[18:38] <Gurnisson> Holding it for longer makes it go down to x1.2, and it will stay there
[18:38] <fez_> how the heck can u time .9
[18:39] <fez_> wow
[18:39] <Gurnisson> Well, you have to take release it on gut feeling
[18:39] <Gurnisson> Anyway, if you hold your swing, it will always deliver more damage than a non-held one
[18:40] <Gurnisson> But if you hold swings too often, you'll probably get spammed by your opponent
[18:40] <@Meow> fez_, information overflow yet?
[18:40] <fez_> cool, i wish the game came with a manuelto helps noobs like me
[18:40] <fez_> nah
[18:40] <@Meow> i think there is a manual somewhere
[18:40] <fez_> im a vet gamer just new to this
[18:40] <@Meow> for warband that is
[18:40] <@Meow> mainly it's playing a lot and get into the combat controls
[18:41] == Harald [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout]
[18:41] == bagge [[email protected]] has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[18:41] == nreal [[email protected]] has quit [Signed off]
[18:41] <fez_> right, i lack combat skills for sure
[18:41] <fez_> but someday my name will be sung...lol
[18:42] == Harald [[email protected]] has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[18:43] <Tydeus> you sure?
[18:43] <Tydeus> <Gurnisson> Holding it for longer makes it go down to x1.2, and it will stay there
[18:43] <Gurnisson> Pretty sure, yes
[18:43] <Tydeus> I think optimal (50% bonus) is .5 sec
[18:43] <Elmokki> it'd make sense to write a thread with all the mechanics of every stat etc
[18:44] <Gurnisson> Hm, a bit unsure on the hold time
[18:44] <Elmokki> of course streamlined ones for damage etc
[18:44] <Gurnisson> But it stays on 1.2
[18:44] <Elmokki> but animation reach bonuses etc
[18:44] <Elmokki> simple information on each class
[18:44] == CoWorm [[email protected]] has quit [Signed off]
[18:44] <Elmokki> stuff like that
[18:44] <Elmokki> hell, I have no clue what exactly str and agi do apart from str giving "some" hp
[18:44] <fez_> yea someone needs to write that, i want to know differences in str and agil bonuses at high levels
[18:45] <fez_> then u can make a better choice in picking say 15/21 or21/15
[18:46] <Elmokki> well
[18:46] <Tydeus> 1/5 str is +1 damage
[18:46] <Elmokki> in those cases what matters is the skills it enables
[18:46] <Tydeus> aside from the damage and the hp
[18:46] <Elmokki> agi and str bonuses themselves are low
[18:46] <Tydeus> I don't think str does anything else of importance
[18:47] <Elmokki> because I mean, 21/15 or 15/21 themselves are very similiar builds if you choose 0 skills
[18:47] <Tydeus> err str/5 += damage
[18:47] <Tydeus> not 1/5
[18:47] <Elmokki> but 7 ps, 5 athletics vs 5 ps, 7 athletics are different
[18:47] <Tydeus> 5 str = 1 damage
[18:47] <Tydeus> I complicated that quite a bit
[18:47] <fez_> so no diff in 15 str or 19 str if done in counts of 5
[18:48] <Tydeus> actually there would be
[18:48] <fez_> oh but i read str also helps mobility with heavy armor
[18:49] <Gurnisson> It doesn't
[18:49] <Tydeus> well it depends on the rounding that is done
[18:49] <Gurnisson> Fez_ different in 15 strength and 19 strength is that you can get more skill points in strength skills, and you'll also have 4 more hp
[18:49] <Gurnisson> Like
[18:50] <Tydeus> pretty much
[18:50] <fez_> wiki states str does help mobility are they wrong
[18:50] <Gurnisson> With 15 strength you can get 5 power strike, 5 ironflesh etc, with 18 or 19 you can get 6
[18:51] <Elmokki> well, hp bonus too
[18:51] <Elmokki> doesn't str give some hp?
[18:51] == Mustikki [[email protected]] has quit [Signed off]
[18:51] <Elmokki> or is it just if and levels
[18:51] <Tydeus> +1 hp per str
[18:51] <Tydeus> " and you'll also have 4 more hp"
[18:52] <Elmokki> didn't read closely enough
[18:53] <Elmokki> what does agility give?
[18:53] <Elmokki> some runspeed and swingspeed?
[18:53] <Gurnisson> Runspeed
[18:53] <Gurnisson> A set number of agility gives the same as one athletics
[18:53] <Gurnisson> iirc
[18:53] <Gurnisson> Dunno how many though
[18:53] <fez_> "rduces the penalty to movement speed associated with the weight of items you are carrying "direct quote from wiki
[18:54] <fez_> oops str reduces
[18:54] <Gurnisson> Hm, never heard of that
[18:54] == Shik [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout]
[18:55] <fez_> http://wiki.c-rpg.net/index.php?title=Attributes_%26_Skills#Strength
[18:55] <fez_> read str on that link
[18:56] == Shik [[email protected]] has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[18:56] <Elmokki> how much damage was each power x
[18:56] <Elmokki> 10% for strike?
[18:59] == Tor_ [[email protected]] has quit [Signed off]
[19:05] <Elmokki> http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,23607.new.html#new
[19:05] <Elmokki> oh, there's a wiki
[19:05] <Elmokki> then that thread is fairly pointless
[19:05] <karasu> ther armor weight
[19:05] <karasu> its the oposite afaik
[19:06] <karasu> 3x head, 2x gloves
[19:06] <Elmokki> ah yeah, it probably is
[19:06] <Elmokki> anyway, gonna go sleep now
[19:06] <karasu> at least in archery is
[19:08] == LLJK_Chingao [[email protected]] has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[19:13] <@Mylet> 'all thine hard work payeth off'
[19:14] <@Mylet> yay my alt crafts better pitchforks -.-
[19:15] <karasu> :3
[19:16] == Salminen [[email protected]] has quit [Signed off]
[19:27] <FRANK_THE_TANK> I had it on an alt ages ago but... well...
[19:27] <FRANK_THE_TANK> I thought ATHWPO could only happen on your main?
[19:27] <FRANK_THE_TANK>
[19:27] <Tennenoth> It can happen on all characters you ahve
[19:28] <Tennenoth> but it only means something on your main
[19:28] <Tennenoth> because only your main is allowed to play strategus, where it is useful
[19:41] == el__ [[email protected]] has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[19:41] == Canary [[email protected]] has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[19:42] <el__> is it ok to sell strat gold for crpg gold?
[19:45] <@Meow> yes, there also is a 10:1 system
[19:45] <@Meow> in case you are getting offered less
[19:45] <@Meow> as in 1 strat gold 10 crpg gold
[19:45] == Spleeno [[email protected]] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[19:46] <el__> wanna buy it?
[19:47] == fez_ [[email protected]] has quit [Signed off]
[19:48] <FRANK_THE_TANK> I just wish crafting wasn't so bloody random.
[19:48] <FRANK_THE_TANK> Like a probability bar
@chadz
@cmp
@Espu
@Fasader
@Meow
@Mylet
@Q
BADPLAYER
bagge
BcB
Canary
CaptMorgan
Coy_
Dehitay
el__
Elmokki
equity_
Everkistus
Fawni
Frank_
FRANK_THE_TANK
Gurnisson
Harald
Inkompetent
Ipsum
Isatis
Jacko
karasu
Khorin__
Kriel
Kriel_
LLJK_Chingao
LLJK_GOATEE_
Maniakki
Noctivagant
Ozin
Phazh
Roska-
Rumaahinen
Sekra
Serfonz
Shik
Smoothrich
Tears
Tennenoth
Tydeus
Tyrell
Ujin
Vibe_
Violent
Yoshibloke
ZyloRage
^30mc_HRE

have fun reading this thought...

also I'll add some waltF4 thread for sources just wait

walt on running, a compelling essay: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3278.0.html

walt on repair a money making best-seller: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,8400.0.html

[Tydeus]

Melee
- Holding your strike without releasing for 0.9 seconds gives you a 60% damage bonus. After holding for 0.9 seconds this bonus will start to drop to a 20% bonus.

Not quite.

I got this from one of cmp's posts on the TaleWorlds forums.

Code: [Select]

if hold_time >= 1.1:
    hold_bonus = 1.2
elif hold_time >= 0.6:
    hold_bonus = (1.1 - hold_time) * 0.6 + 1.2
elif hold_time >= 0.5:
    hold_bonus = 1.5
else:
    hold_bonus = hold_time + 1.0

raw_damage = weapon_damage * (max(1.0, min(hold_bonus, 2.0)) * 0.5 + 0.5)
The last line is important and often missed. The max damage bonus you can get from a hold would be from a .5 second hold with a bonus of  1.25 so 25% damage.

[Tears of Destiny]

I think I have all this already, but will happily steal to add more for the guide if I see anything new.

[Elmokki]

Thanks for the info, especially Tydeus. That was very enlightening.

I also remembered that there were exact knockdown mechanics somewhere in the forum and found them with search.

[Grumbs]

Theres some good info in this thread: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9245.0.html

I'd like to know if this info is still up to date though (from equip section in that thread):

weapon length: The base length of a weapon, and thus effecting reach. Due to how the weapon is held, note that your reach may be effected (such as a two hander being held on the hilt while a pike is held more towards the middle. The following is a rough example (figures slightly different with new animations) of how reach differs from weapon type to weapon type:
Amount of reach added to weapon length due to animation.

1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

1h Polearms
Thrust = +50

I know 2 hand thrust animation was changed in the last month or so. I'd like to know if you still get ~ +61 reach on stab compared to polearms and if there are other changes (swing length etc).

I'd also like to know how where you hold the weapon affects its overall effective reach. Because you hold the sword from the hilt but a Bec de Cobin further up. For eg could 120 length of the bec act like a 100 2 hander? Then if you stab with it would a 100 length sword have 180 reach (due to +80 from animation), and the bec have 119 (100 due to held position + 19 for animation).

At what point is the length of the polearm comparable to the length of a 2 hander due to animation? You see to hold the polearms quite differently depending on the actual weapon. How do 120 length swords compare to the longer polearms in reach due to animations?

[Elmokki]

I'd also like to know how where you hold the weapon affects its overall effective reach. Because you hold the sword from the hilt but a Bec de Cobin further up. For eg could 120 length of the bec act like a 100 2 hander? Then if you stab with it would a 100 length sword have 180 reach (due to +80 from animation), and the bec have 119 (100 due to held position + 19 for animation).

At what point is the length of the polearm comparable to the length of a 2 hander due to animation? You see to hold the polearms quite differently depending on the actual weapon. How do 120 length swords compare to the longer polearms in reach due to animations?

The listed reach bonuses from animations are the different grips affecting the reach, so bec is 120 + 19 for stabs while a 100 reach sword is 100 + 80. Bec and Great Sword are both 120 reach. In effect Great Sword is always longer due to the different grip/animations. Depending on the attack this difference is 15 to 61. Bec, however, still can BARELY outreach a great sword if the bec user is stabbing and the great sword user is using any other attack than stab. This is very barely though - bec stabbing is 2 to 6 units longer than great sword's non-stabs.

The only exception to this rule are the few weapons using other animations than that of their class (2h mode langes messer stab and flamberge stab use polearm stab animation and get the considerably shorter reach)

[CaptainQuantum]

I will cut in and share my knowledge of the damage mechanics since I have wanted to do so for a very long time. Warning: this is not going to be short.

Firstly raw damage:

(click to show/hide)

Bow Damage (Not mounted)
Weapon_damage*Math.pow*(WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*((powerdraw,difficulty+4)*0.14+1)+strength/5.0

Math.pow= Power function, this is "melee_damage_speed_power" or "missile_damage_speed_power" (in the case of ranged) raised to the power of speed bonus.
From the module.ini each of these are defined as:
missile_damage_speed_power = 1.9;
melee_damage_speed_power = 2.0;

(powerdraw,difficulty+4) is the powerdraw but if it is more than 4 above the bows difficulty then this will return power draw + 4.

Bow Damage (Mounted)
Weapon_damage*Math.pow*(WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*((powerdraw,difficulty+4)*0.14+1)*(HA*0.019+0.8)+strength/5.0

Crossbow
Weapon_damage*Math.pow*(WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)+strength/5.0

For the 3 above Weapon_damage is equal to Bow damage + arrow/bolt damage.

One handed
{(hold_bonus*0.5+0,5)*Math.pow*(WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*(power_strike*0.08+1.0)}+strength/5.0

Two handed/polearm without shield/mounted is the same as one handed.
With shield/mounted the polearm equation gets multiplied by 0.85 and the two handed equation is multiplied by 0.9.

Throwing (Not mounted)
Weapon_damage*Math.pow*(WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*(power_throw*0.1+1.0)+strength/5.0

Throwing (Mounted)
Weapon_damage*Math.pow*(WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*(power_throw*0.1+1.0)*(horse_archery*0.019 +0.8)+strength/5.0


Hold bonus is defined by the following:
if hold_time >= 1.1
   hold_bonus = 1.2
elif hold_time >= 0.6:
   hold_bonus = (1.1 - hold_time) * 0.6 + 1.2
elif hold_time >= 0.5:
   hold_bonus = 1.5
else:
   hold_bonus = hold_time + 1.0

Also rain modifiers:
For crossbow your weapon damage will be multiplied by 0.75, for bows by 0.9

There may be a few mistakes and please tell me if you see something obvious. I also posted in another thread about how armour is handled but I seem to have made a mistake for it and I cannot see where so I will post that when I find my error. I hope you find this wall of text and Mathematics useful.

Thanks to Sebastian who pointed out a few errors.

[_Sebastian_]

Weapon_damage*Math.pow*(WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*((powerdraw,difficulty+4)*0.14+1)

The right damage calculation for archery is;

Code: [Select]

raw_damage = (bow_damage + arrow_damage) * (archery_wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (min(power_draw, difficulty + 4) * 0.14 + 1) + strength / 5.0
I show you an example with my build;

(34 + 2) * (159 * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (10 * 0.14 + 1) + 30 / 5.0 = 100.176p

[CaptainQuantum]

The right damage calculation for the archery is;

raw_damage = (bow_damage + arrow_damage) * (archery_wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (min(power_draw, difficulty + 4) * 0.14 + 1) + strength / 5.0

Ah yes of course, sorry did not elabourate on this enough. I will correct this. I was also not sure whether the strength/5.0 was for all or just melee, so I will add that in aswel.

[Teeth]

Doesn't rain slow movement speed of both players and horses with 20% or something? No idea what the exact number is

[CaptainQuantum]

Doesn't rain slow movement speed of both players and horses with 20% or something? No idea what the exact number is

It slows people down yes, but I do not know the numbers, I only deal with the damage mechanics since that is all I have needed. However the approximate number is in the main post.

[Elmokki]

Thanks for the bow damage calculations. Anyone have idea how it's for melee? (EDIT: Disregard that, skimming is bad)

Anyway, regarding running speed in rain:

Rain increased run times by 8.5% + or - 0.5%. Fog has no effect on run time. Interestingly, the weather you observe has limited significance on the actual weather effect you will experience. I think this is the result of the weather effect on running (and I would assume crossbows) being determined when the map loads but the graphical effects being determined when a player joins the server.

distance/speed = time
distance/x*speed = 1.085*time

distance/1.085*time = x*speed

x = 1/1.085 = ~0.922 = ~7.8% speed reduction in rain according to that.

[Grumbs]

The listed reach bonuses from animations are the different grips affecting the reach, so bec is 120 + 19 for stabs while a 100 reach sword is 100 + 80. Bec and Great Sword are both 120 reach. In effect Great Sword is always longer due to the different grip/animations. Depending on the attack this difference is 15 to 61. Bec, however, still can BARELY outreach a great sword if the bec user is stabbing and the great sword user is using any other attack than stab. This is very barely though - bec stabbing is 2 to 6 units longer than great sword's non-stabs.

The only exception to this rule are the few weapons using other animations than that of their class (2h mode langes messer stab and flamberge stab use polearm stab animation and get the considerably shorter reach)

Thanks. Thats assuming the original info is accurate I guess. I wonder how that is determined? Was the thrust length changed recently for 2 handers? I remember the way you stabbed changed a bit but not sure if the actual length went down