Ready to quit, a new player's perspective after 2 weeks

[Saint of Killers]

/in before 'then don't play'

Hopefully some developer will consider this as constructive feedback meant to make the mod better, otherwise why would I bother typing this out?

That having been said, after 2 weeks of seige and some battle servers, these are the conclusions I've reached regarding crpg:

crpg is essentially medieval counter-strike.  All the old problems of team stacking, poor auto-balance, and the like are still unaddressed.

The gold/xp multiplyer teaches the player that their individual skill matters little, and that joining the team that will win (the one with all the clan labels) determines if you win or lose.  90% of the time it's plain as day before the round starts which team will win, and everyone is desperately trying to switch over because they know they will lose their hard earned mult, or just keep losing gold from outrageous repair costs.

From 1-20 crpg feels like an rpg/mmog as you raise skills, attributes and get better gear.   At about level 25 this illusion crumbles as you see your bank account withering away just wearing mediocre weapons and armor (unless you know how to team stack).

I see players deliberately auto-rejoining a faction constantly to get on the winning team, with the winning team leeching the newb/peasant side to maintain their x5 mult.

I'm not saying I have any solutions to this, and maybe some people are fine with the way things are, but the gameplay here is very poor.  There is no real reward system, and the current 'team wins determine mult' does nothing but encourange team stacking and similar abuses 'gaming the system'.  A player is not rewarded for how well they do personally, if they are stuck with a team full of poor players and they can't switch teams, they are screwed, end of story.

Also, at level 30 (which I'm currently at), 31 is eons away, and the only reward I see is upgrading a piece of armor for a measy 2 AC, or upping a weapon to 1 more point of damage.  Then when I do retire I get the 'fun' of walking around like a zombie (3agil) for another few days in a completely crippled build.  It's horrible.

I know all the old-timers who started 6 months ago are having a great time in their fully loomed sets sitting on their money pile trading away and gaming the system to hell and back, but the only kind of new player who would enjoy this mod is somene who wants simple pvp for pvp's sake, or a masochist.  The illusion of progression in any form (other than raw skill gained through practice) is just that, an illusion.  If you weren't playing this mod from the start, you are boned.

[Dehitay]

Those outrageous repair costs are designed to keep people from constantly wearing heavy armor and making 95% of the server ridiculously hard to kill. If it's become a problem for you personally, you really should switch to lower cost armor until you've developed a money pile of your own. Hell, I'm sitting on top of 350K and I still wear crappy armor and have just as much fun.

But I will admit that the reward being based mostly on the luck of getting dropped on the right team is kind of discouraging. Of course, they can't change that till they can think of a fair way to change that. That's where this Suggetions Corner comes in useful. But just make sure to think through any suggestions before posting cause this is probly one of the forums with the most criticism, too

[becca]

Don't retire, solves one of your problems.  No one is forcing you to start over.  You can buy heirlooms off the market for reasonable prices.  As for the money issue, I personally don't see it. 

[Elindor]

respectfully posted OP...

i do agree that it is daunting as a new player now, i started a couple months ago after the new 30-31 grind and it is annoying, but the thing to remember is that - once you are full level (25 or so to 31) the game is still 90% skill.  all the armor and weapons and looms in the world will not make you "good".  It is a PLAYER SKILL grind more than anything else....getting a skillset mastered, then identifying and moving onto the next one.  timing, attack directions, positioning, feinting, parrying, chambering, etc...

money isnt a huge issue, and i wear transitional and stuff....so...i dont know what to tell you there.  wear some light chain for a while and such to save costs.

The annoying this for me is starting over at 1 when you retire...from 1 to 25 or so you feel like you're in the special olympics.  it gets a little better as you get better as a player, and also somewhat worse because you KNOW you can do better. 

-- to your point though -- as a progression game...its not a great one in and of itself.  but im not here for pure progression (like an MMO) in fact I love that its not about that...theres a little carrot of money and gear and looms but the big carrot is your skill as a player and your ability to raise your KD and more importantly - WIN matches for your team.

Now, I DO AGREE that siege needs help. 
Right now theres too much dependence on your team and i understand WHY they did this....

HOWEVER - I think in siege you should get a MINIMAL modifier for personal performance...nothing to detract from the overriding goal of WINNING AS A TEAM, but right now that much dependence on your team and on the maps (which sometimes lets face it - defense or offense on diff maps sometimes is almost a sure loss) is difficult sometimes. 

[Diomedes]

If you're losing money and you've less than 25k then you're a statistically unlucky person.  Walt did some calculations some time ago and posted a very comprehensive system of averages for what price of armour players can wear while still making money.  It comes out to around 20-25k per multiplier, or about 40k as a persistent standard.  E.g. if you're at x1 wear less than 25k, x2 = <50k, x3 = <75k, etc.  I think players generally average out at a x1.9 multiplier so you should end up making money wearing 40k in gear.


All that said, wear light armour!  I use a heater shield, italian sword, and padded leather armour and I have loads of fun!

[Tears of Destiny]

I was not playing this mod from the start, and I have busted my ass to be a Generation 4 character with a single MW item, and that is it, yet I still have fun with that character as well as my other alts (And I do not retire my alts, I don't see the point).

Money will not be an issue if you wear what the majority of player wear, 25K-35K of gear.

If you want to make money fast, wear less. If you want to barely make money in the long run (and have ups and downs) then wear 40K or so. You can sustain 25K of gear per multiplier, and your average multiplier is a little less then 2, statistically.

As for people leaving and rejoining, that rarely does anything. If the autobalancer (and I have yet to see this behavior that you describe, it is mostly new players joining a server) sees a person join it will often "swap" them to the losing team (one of the few things the autobalancer does correctly more often then not).

Your bank account should not be withering away unless you think you reserve the right to wear top-end gear 24/7. This game does not work that way, as that is bloody damn boring to see everyone wear the top gear every battle. We did that once, and the game broke.

Individual skill matters. If you contribute to the team then your team has a greater chance of winning (and thus a higher multiplier). If you are one of those leeching fools then you are a hindrance to your team and increase the chance of your team losing thus a X1 multiplier. I hate peasants who think "Oh I can't help at all I will just leech,"  as to be perfectly blunt that "fucks my shit up."

cRPG does have a steep learning curve, I admit this, but it can help you a lot if you start seeking out advice and not try and learn to swim all by yourself.

The fact that you are having money issues starting at level 25 or so and consistently losing money means that you have no idea what the hell you are doing, in all honesty.

If you do not view Heirlooms as worth retiring, then Don't Retire. Miley is Generation 1 (has never retired, ever) and is to this day pretty happy. There are countless other players. Retiring is door number one, not retiring is door number two. Honestly you can remain competitive and never retire, you don't have a small edge from an itsy bitsy increase from heirloomed items, but you do gain an edge from having slightly higher stats.

I highly reccomend you start asking around before you quit cRPG and try and get a better grasp on how things work. Yes, there are issues in cRPG, but Money should never, ever, become one of them, period.

[Dezilagel]

My pov is that ppl chould care less about "winning" (gold, xp etc...) in general, and more about their personal skill progress.

If you're on the "bad" team - see it as a challenge. It is quite satisfying to "carry" a bad team to victory by ninjaing the enemies' entire archercamp 

Also, the heirloom/level grind should never be your "ultimate goal", you'll tire very quickly. Instead, as said before, focus on your development as a player. That is what drives me, I want to fight, and beat the best out there, and honing my skills is therefore my "grind" (a very enjoyable one).

I agree with you on many points, the game can be very harsh and unsatisfying at times (you know, those evenings when you get pelted/lanced to death over, and over, and over again...), but look past the gamemechanics and look into what's behind. Those bundle of stickss who keep rejoining the "good" teams, what are they really gaining? Some shiny new virtual boots to fap over? Hooray!

This is the best, and only, advice I can give you as a fairly new player myself; if you want to grind for gear, this is not the game for you.

[Penitent]

hmmm...disagree with OP, for the most part.

However, I do agree the team stacking is broken.  It's all about getting lucky on the right team in order to win and get multipliers.

I think there should be a balance between round multiplier and getting gold/xp for kills.  It shouldn't be just one or the other.

[Garrus]

This thread is a FaiL, sorry 
- My gold amount is always between 5000 and 15000, but when I have 600 gold, I will not ride a horse with 1000 upkeep cost. I very rarely run out of my gold.
- You will not win a duel, because you have more times heirloomed weapon.
- Why do you retire, if you know what will happen, and you don't want that? Beeing a pissant is cool.

[Tears of Destiny]

hmmm...disagree with OP, for the most part.

However, I do agree the team stacking is broken.  It's all about getting lucky on the right team in order to win and get multipliers.

I think there should be a balance between round multiplier and getting gold/xp for kills.  It shouldn't be just one or the other.

Well, while Battle mode only calculates after round 1 and rarely swaps players from team to team after that, Siege mode does it near constantly, so perhaps the OP may like siege mode more as it is more "balanced" when it comes to the autobalancer shoving people around and breaking up clans.

Oh, and To The Original Poster:
The Texas Battle Server does Not use bannerbalance. Check it out.

[bosco]

Well, while Battle mode only calculates after round 1 and rarely swaps players from team to team after that, Siege mode does it near constantly, so perhaps the OP may like siege mode more as it is more "balanced" when it comes to the autobalancer shoving people around and breaking up clans.

However beware, Siege mode costs you more upkeep on the long run, at least from my experience. I find it harder to make money playing Siege than playing Battle.

[Tears of Destiny]

However beware, Siege mode costs you more upkeep on the long run, at least from my experience. I find it harder to make money playing Siege than playing Battle.

Yup, because it is more "balanced' it is harder to swing higher then a x2 multiplier.

[Saint of Killers]

I don't disagree with anyone here.

I'll repeat my only point, crpg is medieval counter-strike.  If I knew that ahead of time I wouldn't have installed crpg.  I'm upset because I feel the mod represents itself as something it is not.

At first glance this mod has all the features of a pvp progression RPG.  Leveling, improving stats, skills, gearing up, market trading, etc.  That's what drew me into playing this mod in the first place, progression, and that was what I was experiencing for the first week or so.  There are literally two games here.  One to suck new players in (1st gen 1-20), and another that hopes they will stick around even though the rules have changed.  I'm not looking for a win-button skinner-box MMORPG WoW experience, but the 'carrot' of looming back to zero, or even worse, leveling from 31-35 is a very very tiny carrot.

I quit CS years ago because of team stacking and the abuses that came with it.  The fact that crpg gives monetized and xp rewards to team stackers just adds insult to injury.

[Gheritarish le Loki]

you critisize this xp reward system but you don´t give any solution, and seriously if you have started playing before big patch, you would have quit in 2 days. No you don´t have the strongwill that allow you to be like this guys sitted on their heirloom and tons of gold.
Hell yeah this game isn´t easy and is frustrating but once you grind your personnal skill it become real real good as any others game.
Its really not a matter of good equipment, heirloom, gold and personnal rewards, no, its a matter of skills.
Btw if you want personnal reward except the fun of slaughter your enemy by your own skill you shoumd return to wow.

[Tears of Destiny]

Well, to be fair he thought the game was something that it was not.

It is perfectly reasonable for him to not like the game for fundamental reasons.

I don't like certain games simply because "They are not my cup of tea."

*shrugs* You can not make a game that can please everyone.