Author Topic: Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.  (Read 6821 times)

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Offline Tristan

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Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.
« on: June 29, 2011, 02:10:25 pm »
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This might change a bit, but:
there will be about a dozen raw materials.
Every village has 3 materials it can produce.
the owner can shift the production balance.
the amount of resources produced is defined by the workers in the village.
the workers are other players who get a gold wage, defined and given out by the village owner.

the real item production will then happen in towns.
a town can produce up to 5 goods at the same time.
the village owner can set a smith.
the smith's skill defines of what quality (=heirloom) the produced item is.
the amount of workers in the town (=players) define how many items will be produced.

there will be other (individual) ways of creating weapons, but that will be very slow and not feasable to equip an army with it.

you don't get gold in strategus.

Suggestion and TL;dr in the end of post.

Most likely if you read this thread you have read the other.
Thank you chadz for starting to reveal the wonderful project that Strategus is and let me just start out by saying that I was very much in doubt whether or not to make this post the simple reason being that it seems ungrateful to start raising concerns when you now finally have started to give us information. I realized that my post might be the single best reason for not sharing the information  with the public. Any way here we go.

I have posted earlier some concerns that gold poses quite a problem for. I think it is a great idea that something that holds value in strategus also will hold value in normal cRPG in order to get everyone participate in strat. But:

1) As the only way of getting gold is grinding on servers, clan might start to impose a tax on their own players in order to pay for strategus.
2) Players very active will start running around in peasant clothes.
3) Upkeep is so low that normal players have no problem having high upkeep and that means
3a) Most players won't care about the bit of extra gold that can be made in strat or
3b) We'll be back to the days of tincan cRPG.

4) The only way gold is getting "out" of this system is throuh upkeep. That gold sink is not large enough compared to all the gold getting into the economic system.

What I suggest is (tl;dr):
a) Make it so that some gold is made in strategus.
b) Make the gold coming out of strategus worth more (as in much much higher upkeep).

The thing is, that the clans then has to choose if they want workers or reward their players. In other words the ratio of gold coming in strategus and gold coming out of strategus should be hugely in favor of gold coming OUT because the gold sink is in public games.

Edit: I will actually go as far as to suggest another currency in Strategus caled Denars. When you take gold to denars (cRPG to Strat) you get 2:1, but when you take denars to gold (strat to cRpg) you get 1:1. Denars are made by owning land in strat. Combined with increased upkeep you will see that it balances out with what eq people use today if they make sure to make enough denars in strat.
With Denars the clans have to decide if they need more workers or want to reward their members.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 03:52:42 pm by Aemaelius »
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Offline chadz

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Re: Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2011, 02:17:55 pm »
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If I wouldn't want it discussed, I wouldn't have posted it ;)

I welcome a healthy discussion, because things could still change.

Offline Kazak

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Re: Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2011, 02:20:23 pm »
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It won't be fun without gold, chadz. Most factions will want to get gold for supporting allied caravans or something. Also if a player won't be able to feed his troops with food that he has he can always buy some food from other players.
Gold is a must in strat
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Offline Gheritarish le Loki

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Re: Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2011, 02:20:55 pm »
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I guess something is missing in chadz explanations, dunno what, but it's confusing now ! ;)

Offline okiN

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Re: Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2011, 02:29:34 pm »
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It won't be fun without gold, chadz. Most factions will want to get gold for supporting allied caravans or something. Also if a player won't be able to feed his troops with food that he has he can always buy some food from other players.
Gold is a must in strat

I think stuff like that is pretty much what he has planned, actually. From what it sounds like, I think gold just won't directly affect item production, aside from wages.
Don't.

Offline Gheritarish le Loki

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Re: Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2011, 02:32:36 pm »
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The question is how will come gold in the first place?

Offline okiN

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Re: Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2011, 02:33:14 pm »
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From playing cRPG, apparently.
Don't.

Offline Tristan

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Re: Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2011, 02:34:06 pm »
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The question is how will come gold in the first place?

chadz clearly stated that Gold comes from public servers (or regular cRPG).

I edited my first post a bit with an additional suggestion (called edit). THis would actually be my final idea how to deal with it.
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Offline Jacko

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Re: Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2011, 02:47:01 pm »
+1
WALL OF TEXT

So, I've been reading the "Ask a dev" and thread and gotten some ideas from it. I thought about making my own thread but I might as well post it here.
-Having constant wipes seems like gameplay fail. Why do we need to wipe? Too much gold? Troops? Equipment? I think "constantly" (the only thing said about it, is that it MIGHT happen every 6 months or so to keep things fresh) wiping is ignoring the real problem at hand.

Just look at other strategy games out there, like the total war series. You have x amount of population producing taxes, some of these turn into troops (thus costing money instead), some are allocated as workers, thus not generating tax. The money sink is troops and buildings. Now, in the TW games you get tax from different things, population, farms, trading and different resources. But the real money sink is troops. The higher tiered, the more they cost. This forces the player to make several different choices, like conquering with an overly expensive army, "economical growth" with a defensive army and so on.

This could be translated into Strategus, the players being the clan, being forced to choose between economy, crafting and "warmongering". Big clans could perhaps solve this themselves, but most would have to rely on other clans to help them out with certain needs, be it equipment, troops or resources (which seems to where Strategus is heading anyway).

Derprelevant EVE story:
(click to show/hide)

Mercing out:
(click to show/hide)

Signing Up:
(click to show/hide)

Storing, equipment, resources:
(click to show/hide)

Markets:
(click to show/hide)

Caravans:
(click to show/hide)

Bands:
(click to show/hide)

TL;DR

"Make" most players sign up in bands/armies (better wage, higher risk). You hardly earn gold if your a worker, it covers your living cost (meta meta game; new shoes, broken shields etc).
Profit is in being in the right spot at the right time (battles / caravans / raiding mostly).
Gold only gained through taxes from population in villages / cities (not players). Governed by the owning player.
Trading items/resources is more important then gold.
With gold you can buy personal equipment (for use in "Band" fights), buildings, horses, carts, pay wages (and resources, if people are willing to trade for gold).
Strategus and cRPG gold totally separate (might go Strategus>cRPG)
Monkeys!

Offline Gheritarish le Loki

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Re: Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2011, 02:48:43 pm »
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Thx for clarification guys!

It's easier to earn gold now, will that unbalance the economy?
We saw with marketplace that gold still have a value (for trading). Big clan will make a lot of gold (in cheap gear) then they can pay wages for workers, more gold more workers, that means that they will be able to produce gears faster than other small clan.
I know it's a simple réflexion, but that will change nothing compare to old strat.

Offline DarkFox

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Re: Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2011, 03:42:54 pm »
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Quote
as in much much higher upkeep
This.  Personaly I dont care about job in strategus, I have 12k and I can run around with great bardiche and 60 armor, I will still earn gold. And there are a lot of players with really big amount of gold(like 500k). Would be nice to see upkeep with 20k equipment breaking point. So if player wants to have good equipment on crpg servers, he can find job on strategus as a  mercenary, merchant blacksmith etc.
The only disadvantage is that players who is not interested in strategus will have problems with upkeep. I dont think that transfarable gold is a problem since there will be no AI market.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 03:48:09 pm by DarkFox »

Offline Gingerpussy

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Re: Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2011, 04:36:41 pm »
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Why discuss this now. I rather have some ppl beta test it and have a thread about how they see the new stuff. As long as we basicly knows "nada" about the new strategus its pointless imo
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Offline Jacko

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Re: Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2011, 05:15:30 pm »
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Ginger, sure. But we can still speculate, cause.. why not? It's not like we got anything better to do, apparently.
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Offline chadz

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Re: Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2011, 05:27:15 pm »
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Also, it gives me new perspectives, possible abuses I haven't had a proper look at, etc.

Offline Gingerpussy

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Re: Strat economics discussed after news from chadz.
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2011, 05:27:27 pm »
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Ginger, sure. But we can still speculate, cause.. why not? It's not like we got anything better to do, apparently.
Wel u can always have wishful dreams...sure go ahead :P
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