Nerf Elite Scimmitar

[Gorath]

the niuoaaswsgre has post reach.

When did you guys buff the nyhuanyhuadado?

[Cyclopsided]

the nerfwieuaiduaidado is my favorite 1h on agi 1hs.
but length is most important on strength builds.

[Vibe]

Even before the patch - with over the top side sword - elite scimitar was one of the most used 1h weapon (with 31c). In this patch, it got buffed to 32c and is most often used 1h sword. Make it a on par with other 1h swords, don't make it automatic choice for power gamers.


Compared to NCS it have 2 more speed and 2 less reach (and lack 21p thrust, i assume it's a bonus as 21p is useless) and require 2 less strength.

Solution:
-increase it's requirement by 2
-decrease it's either speed by 1 or damage by 1

I'll have you know that even 21p thrust is not useless if you know how to use it.

[Lech]

No one forces you to use Elite scimitar. There are nice 1h swords around, for example:

- Italian sword.
- Groose messer
- Niuweidao / Liuyeidao
- Scimitar
- Langes messer
- Short nordic war sword

Can I continue? Why you don't cry about niuewidao? Curved blade with 33 dmg, 101 speed and 88 reach.

-Italian lack damage and have not as good reach. Have good thrust but it's weaker power wise.
-Messer is decent but lack reach
-same, lack reach
-Reg. Scimi lack damage
-good, but reach count
-lack reach and damage is way too low

[Shablagoo]

It's the same as the other 1handers in that price range.  It has almost the same stats as the nordic champ sword only it trades a thrust attack and 2 range for 2 speed. 

And the reach not matching the model really isn't that bad.  I can understand complaints about the normal scimitar though. 

[Lech]

It's the same as the other 1handers in that price range.  It has almost the same stats as the nordic champ sword only it trades a thrust attack and 2 range for 2 speed. 

And the reach not matching the model really isn't that bad.  I can understand complaints about the normal scimitar though.

2 range for 2 speed is a lot. Thrust of NCS don't help much, it CAN kill someone from time to time, but it's often reason of death thanks to bounce. (yes you can control the attacks, but scimi can attack overhead with the same mouse movement like thrust and it's often better. 2 range for 1 speed would be fair. Also NCS have 13 requirement and ES have 11 (not to mention it's more expensive).

[Kafein]

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

as you can see, the nsuniausniaunsianwedao has no ghost reach

Exactly what I meant with my first post here so for once, thank you.

[MouthnHoof]

The funny thing is that in reality long highly curved swords are not particularly fast at all. Their balance point is both far out (better hacking, slow recovery) and off the length axis which makes variation of the plane of the sword (wrist twist) much more awkward than in a straight sword. The last point is not so important for cavalry use, which is why they allowed their swords to be highly curved, but infantry swords tend to have a moderate curve if any.

[polkafranzi]

At masterwork the elite scim is basically a 2hander with an autoblock and no stab.

(click to show/hide)

Masterwork Elite Scimitar
weapon length: 100
weight: 1.3
difficulty: 11
speed rating: 100
weapon length: 100
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 35 cut
slots: 1
Autoblock

Katana
weapon length: 95
weight: 1.3
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 101
weapon length: 95
thrust damage: 16 pierce
swing damage: 35 cut
slots: 2

Wow...katana is OP

re-nerf

[Shablagoo]

2 range for 2 speed is a lot. Thrust of NCS don't help much, it CAN kill someone from time to time, but it's often reason of death thanks to bounce. (yes you can control the attacks, but scimi can attack overhead with the same mouse movement like thrust and it's often better. 2 range for 1 speed would be fair. Also NCS have 13 requirement and ES have 11 (not to mention it's more expensive).

You can't act like thrust attacks are irrelevant in a balance discussion because you don't personally like it.  Thrust is a 4th attack that pierces and increases your effective range by 40% or more.  If thrust isn't useful then a significant number of 1h weapons need to be buffed based on this information.

[MouthnHoof]

Thrust is support attack which works great on high agi/ath builds. You basically wait for the right moment looking like a low threat while the opponent engages the 2H guy next to you, then you lunge in with a thrust - the extra reach serves that purpose well and the pierce+speed bonus does the rest.

[El_Infante]

-Italian lack damage and have not as good reach. Have good thrust but it's weaker power wise.
-Messer is decent but lack reach
-same, lack reach
-Reg. Scimi lack damage
-good, but reach count
-lack reach and damage is way too low

- Italian is a very balanced sword. Don't have the longer reach, or the high damage but is pretty balanced.
- Messer don't lack reach. 92 is enough.
- Scimi lack damage? Oh! It's just a joke. Maybe unloomed scimitar with 30dmg. MW Scimitar is 33 damage. Do you think that 33/35 damage is very noticeable? (+-3 dmg on "static hits"). +2 speed compensates -2 dmg. And it's a cheap weapon, that allow you to carry better equipment without losing money. The high damage you get on a weapon, the less noticeable difference. Try a 24/15 shielder hitting hard with scimitar. Sometimes with speed bonus I kill tincans on 1headhit. TBH I think that regular scimitar is the best 1handed sword (Speed, reach, damage, price). By the way, it's only my opinion.
- Nordic short war sword lack reach, but the speed is awesome. Try to block a feint and NSWS hit you before you can see that sword swinging.

Another question:

At masterwork the elite scim is basically a 2hander with an autoblock and no stab.

(click to show/hide)

Masterwork Elite Scimitar
weapon length: 100
weight: 1.3
difficulty: 11
speed rating: 100
weapon length: 100
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 35 cut
slots: 1
Autoblock

Katana
weapon length: 95
weight: 1.3
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 101
weapon length: 95
thrust damage: 16 pierce
swing damage: 35 cut
slots: 2

You forgot something. Katana (2handed swords) get:
- Speed bonus (+5 from animation)
- Longer reach by animation (Thrust, swing, overhead) that 1h don't have. So you can't compare 2h with 1h because it's not the same mechanics.

[okiN]

The reason those shielders use that sword instead of the elite scimi is because of personal preference, be it stylistically or otherwise.  It's certainly not because of the stats.

No, it's the stats. Fast and damaging with semi-decent range.

[Elmetiacos]

You can't act like thrust attacks are irrelevant in a balance discussion because you don't personally like it.  Thrust is a 4th attack that pierces and increases your effective range by 40% or more.  If thrust isn't useful then a significant number of 1h weapons need to be buffed based on this information.

In theory a thrust is useful because it gives you an extra option in attacking. However, in actual fighting, particularly close to a wall or similar obstruction it can be a hinderance. Because the reality is that camera movement determines your attack direction, not mouse movement, you can have an object behind you and be trapped into thrusting by the movement of the camera when you didn't want one.

To return to scimitars, I've found they seem to be impossible to block sometimes: the animation for the blow looks strange: sometimes it's hard to tell an overhead blow by a simitar user (or a sabre user) from a sideways cut because the animation has a steeper angle. It's as if there's another attack which isn't either sideways or overhead, and you can't block or chamber because there's no correct response.

[MadJackMcMad]

If I see an elite scimitar on the ground - I drop whatever I have and pick it up.