Why Polearms stab so much faster than 2h swords???

[cmp]

All weapons stun the same duration of time after a stab based on weapon speed.

Not true, there are different stun animations for each type of weapon, and they can have different base durations.

[Cyclopsided]

Ah, the stun duration with the weapons is not that different though, and fits together really closely with weapon speed so that it appeared that they all had the same thrust-stun base time affected by weapon speed. Thanks for the correction though.

If you mind me asking, what is the actual difference with the weapons, because they are so consistently stunned on thrusts.
This game engine never ceases to surprise on different variables, and certain hardcoded limits and so on...

[Kafein]

A polearm stabs faster, but it's much more easily predictable and has a much shorter reach than 2h stabs.

2h stabs have the weird capacity of lasting extremely long in time. If you see a 2hander stabbing, when his forward movement is finished, the blade doesn't move and is ready to come back to him, hitting that sword will hurt you. And as badly as if the movement was perfect. Furthermore, the reach gets a big bonus over a polearm thrust.

Both the blocked stab stun animations are horribly long. A blocked stab with a polearm or a 2h does leave you defenseless againt a fast swing.

[cmp]

If you mind me asking, what is the actual difference with the weapons, because they are so consistently stunned equally on thrusts.

Not sure what you mean, but if you want to know the base durations you can look them up in actions.txt. For each attack type there are two lines like this

Code: [Select]

blocked_thrust_twohanded 0 35651599  1
  0.700000 anim_human 26015 26016 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Code: [Select]

blocked_thrust_onehanded 512 35676175  1
  0.600000 anim_human 28515 28513 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
So a 2h stab has a base stun duration of 0.7 while a 1h stab has a base stun duration of 0.6. Same thing applies for all other attack types (blocked_attacktype_weapontype animation).

[Cyclopsided]

That is what I wanted to know, thanks

*Edit:  After reading actions.txt a bit, I see Parried_thrust is listed separately from blocked_thrust, with parries generally having a longer stun base time than if something is blocked by a shield.

example: blocked_thrust_twohanded 0.700000         &               parried_thrust_twohanded 0.8700000

Good stuff to know.

Code: (Staff is pole arm, I assume) [Select]

blocked_thrust_staff 1678770176 35651599  1
  0.650000 anim_human 27316 27313 3 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_thrust_staff 1678770176 35651599  1
  0.820000 anim_human 27316 27313 3 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

[Chazzer1]

i have an idea, how about it only does damage if the sharp bit hits people, i see pikes stabbing through somone. the shaft goes through their body then the blade goes up and hits them. Its hard to explain. Basically the blade is allready past them, by their feet. As the stab carries on the pike guy aimes up and the spike at the end hits the guy in the head. It is illogical, if any part that is not the sharp bit hits u it should bounce of with no dammage.

[cmp]

That is what I wanted to know, thanks

*Edit:  After reading actions.txt a bit, I see Parried_thrust is listed separately from blocked_thrust, with parries generally having a longer stun base time than if something is blocked by a shield.

example: blocked_thrust_twohanded 0.700000         &               parried_thrust_twohanded 0.8700000

Good stuff to know.

Code: (Staff is pole arm, I assume) [Select]

blocked_thrust_staff 1678770176 35651599  1
  0.650000 anim_human 27316 27313 3 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
 parried_thrust_staff 1678770176 35651599  1
  0.820000 anim_human 27316 27313 3 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Parry is an old mechanic that was removed in Warband beta, I think both attacking a shield and another weapon use the blocked animation.

[Elmetiacos]

A polearm stabs faster, but it's much more easily predictable and has a much shorter reach than 2h stabs.

2h stabs have the weird capacity of lasting extremely long in time. If you see a 2hander stabbing, when his forward movement is finished, the blade doesn't move and is ready to come back to him, hitting that sword will hurt you. And as badly as if the movement was perfect. Furthermore, the reach gets a big bonus over a polearm thrust.

But as I say, if the thrust is a miss, the swordsman is stuck in that animation and is defenceless until it finishes.

[Cyclopsided]

Parry is an old mechanic that was removed in Warband beta, I think both attacking a shield and another weapon use the blocked animation.

And this is why I love having you around. Because this game is designed to confuse anyone who isn't a dev.

Oh, if everything is using the block animation, does that mean those parry animations are free for use for something else? I know the game has a hardcoded limit on animation numbers... Could its animation be used for something else or am I being naive again? I'm probably thinking of something else anyways and am wrong.

I can't wait for you to finish WSE so you can just change everythign and add more animations. [Like give stones the unarmed animation rather than 1h since it is impossible currently with the animation limit, etc]

[cmp]

Oh, if everything is using the block animation, does that mean those parry animations are free for use for something else? I know the game has a hardcoded limit on animation numbers... Could its animation be used for something else or am I being naive again? I'm probably thinking of something else anyways and am wrong.

The hardcoded animation limit is a myth, maybe it was true in the first Mount&Blade, but in Warband one can add animations freely. There is a limit to how many animations will work in multiplayer, but it's high enough.
The parry animation can't be used for something else because of how the attack/defend animation system work. We can only assign "capabilities" to items, and those capabilities determine what kind of attack/defend animations the item uses. Unfortunately, the capability-animation mappings are entirely hardcoded.

I can't wait for you to finish WSE so you can just change everythign and add more animations. [Like give stones the unarmed animation rather than 1h since it is impossible currently with the animation limit, etc]

I'm afraid that particular feature (fiddling with animations) won't be added for quite a while... I already had something on those lines in an earlier version, but had to disable it because of how time consuming it was to port to new Warband versions. I'll probably add it back once I know for a fact that Warband is at the end of its patch cycle.

[Roran Hawkins]

people forget that you are holding a 2h sword by the handle, making it way more unwieldy to stab, unlike polearms, which were in most cases designed to do so.
Especially the lolswords, try holding a 2 meter iron bar at the very end and stab with it. You won't be able to put much force behind it, and you'd be thrown off balance if used in a real fight, where such a long, weak and slowmotion stab would be easy predictable and parried. If anything at all with 2h stab, imho, it should be nerfed. (a slight nerf, probably another animation)

Maybe all oversized 2h swords(German lol greatsword, Danish lol greatsword, actually, all 2h swords with a stab animation from the "2 handed sword" and up execpt for the katana, since it's very short and light compared to the lolsword category) ashould have the polearm stab animation, it makes way more sense, and you would be able to stab stronger.


BUT, since we're talking about IG here, and not IRL, my post may be total off-topic, but these are just my 2 cents (hah, before the IG/IRL off-topic posts)

[v/onMega]

Not sure what you mean, but if you want to know the base durations you can look them up in actions.txt. For each attack type there are two lines like this

Code: [Select]

blocked_thrust_twohanded 0 35651599  1
  0.700000 anim_human 26015 26016 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Code: [Select]

blocked_thrust_onehanded 512 35676175  1
  0.600000 anim_human 28515 28513 6 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
So a 2h stab has a base stun duration of 0.7 while a 1h stab has a base stun duration of 0.6. Same thing applies for all other attack types (blocked_attacktype_weapontype animation).

Are these clientside controlled?

Tell me they aren't...

[Paul]

Nope, server side.

[Cepeshi]

Polearms are sod easy to block.

bec de corvin anyone? man, this shit is so hard to block... anyways, after bitching about nerfing mah swords, trying out poles for one gen, going back to swords and now again pole (damn i love fast piking) i have to say one thing: i have much more problems blocking 2h thrust than pole thrust

[Alfonso]

ohoh..this is why I hit a teammate aside from me..not an enemy in front!
Wasnt my fault!

You just aren't noticing it as much with 2h because it is harder to see at times. You can do what is called "hiltslashing" with both weapons, where when you are point blank facehugging you will do damage before the rest of the weapon actually swings by hitting them with the hilt (base of the weapon hitbox). It is supposed to glance but often does not.
I purposely do it with 2h all the time because it is easier to do with your character's arms extend the weapon further from your body. lol animations.
...there is actually a way with 1h to do it where you actually bump them like a kick with the attack animation and they can't block it. I saw somebody abusing it one day and went to figure out how they did it. Good luck figuring that one out, the enemy has to walk into you or not move to do it though.

Hiltslashing explanation picture, as from above the fight. visitors can't see pics , please register or login