A throwing alternative for existing spears. (Not a throwing balance discussion.)

[Player_01]

In the sea of cries for throwing nerfs and buffs, my friend and I were talking about alternatives to throwing. We had an idea that was inspired by the movie 300, where the Spartans in the movie would throw their spear and then draw the sword on their side. Understand this mechanic is not 100% historically accurate to our world. Good thing we don't live in Calradia, right? 

I propose the idea of: Throwable spears!

I ran the idea over in my head, giving spears the ability to become a single ammunition thrown weapon through secondary mode. With power-throw requirements of course, this way Hoplite builds don't need to also carry a thrown weapon. They can just chuck their spear and pull out their side-sword or even scavenge for another spear. The limitations would be obvious, only shorter spears (eg. shortened spear, spear, warspear, boar spear and red tassel spear). As throwing pikes, poleaxes and the bec would be absolutely stupid. The damage could be anywhere between Jarid damage up to Throwing Lance damage for high-tier spears.

Please leave suggestions and criticism on this idea. Any discussion about throwing nerfs or buffs will be ignored and removed, that's for another thread.

Edit: I'm aware that Spartiates and Hoplites did not throw their spears in history, 300 is to act as an example of my idea.
Changed my opening post/subject so historymy old friends stop whining.

[Digglez]

melee spears are not designed to be thrown, and would have horrible flight charactistics anything past about 3ft

And 300 is not a historically correct dramatization of ancient combat if thats what your basing it off of.  Losing your spear is not something you wanna do in a phalanx

[Player_01]

I see your point of melee spears not being designed to be thrown, but we pretty much have the double-sided lance as a throwing weapon anyway. And I did not state 300 was historically accurate, that would be like saying Call of Duty is an accurate representation of modern warfare tactics.

Maybe the accuracy could be less to compensate for the fact that they aren't built to be thrown, or let the accuracy be the same since it's really a one-shot deal. Either way, lets see what other people have to post.

EDIT: Thanks for the minus rep Digglez. You're a cool kid.

Second EDIT: Afaik spears, whether used for melee or not could be thrown at decent accuracy. The main difference could be weight and balance, i'll do some research. I don't see why you couldn't throw a spear, actual thrown spears could be up to six feet in length.

[Paul]

I had this idea over 9000 years ago and it was actually considered for cRPG. The reason why chadz in the end was against it was because of the limitations of the module system. Every spear would have to start out in throwing mode at the beginning of a round and that would probably confuse the living crap out of many players.

[Player_01]

I had this idea over 9000 years ago and it was actually considered for cRPG. The reason why chadz in the end was against it was because of the limitations of the module system. Every spear would have to start out in throwing mode at the beginning of a round and that would probably confuse the living crap out of many players.

I had a feeling this was suggested before.

Damn shame, maybe this thread could discuss the means of overcoming the limitation or even coming up with an alternative.

EDIT: For example, we could have a carbon-copy of each spear as a throwing weapon in the throwing weapon category. And their secondary mode would be the actual spear.

[H3ADSH0T]

There are plenty of historical units who used spears as thrown missiles. I will be following up with some research to support this idea ASAP. Until then I will present -my- logic on the topic.

For one, the current throwing spears are the same length as many 1 handed swords and therefore can't even be called spears.  If there is any question about the viable range of their use look at the current viability of throwing anyway... Also, the track and field javelin throw uses a (albeit, javelin by name) that is 2.5 meters long, or about 8 feet.

Currently the "throwing spears" can be secondaried and used as what I assume is polearm, though I haven't been able to test it myself. With the laughable "throwing LANCE" as a choice of weapon the only logic standing in the way is what has already been suggested. Give some viable weapons a thrown utility.

Next up, throwing lance statistics.

missile speed: 17
weapon length: 130
weight: 3
accuracy: 102
difficulty: 6
speed rating: 80
missile speed: 17
weapon length: 130
max ammo: 1
thrust damage: 56 pierce
slots: 2
Bonus against Shield
Secondary Mode

The shortest lance in the game has a length of 150, the shortest spear a length of 120. Currently, the throwing lance is basically what should be THE throwing spear. And if the Shortened spear, red tassel, and warspear could all be thrown, the powerthrow requirement would be needed anyway, and I honestly do not believe that the argument could be given that just cannot throw a spear.

[Warcat]

You can use throwing lances for this. They only have 1 ammo and work decently for melee, particularly with the stab damage. You could use this with a sword and 1 slot shield. This build isn't as good as it use to be though since it often takes 2 lances to kill someone now, and they're they slowest, most inaccurate things ever.

[Ozwan]

/historical bullshit

Spartans would throw their spear at an enemy

This is completely not true. Actual Spartans - Spartiates - wouldn't ever engage enemies at range because they considered it to be unhonorable and cowardish. For that reason in Spartan army there were actual peltasts, javelin throwers and other skirmishers who were all Helots.

[Jarlek]

If there was a PT requirement to throw (for example) the warspear, wouldn't that also mean you would need the PT just to equip it? That would mean you couldn't use it if you were just a normal spearman. And making 2 different versions, one throwable and one not, would be very confusing. Maybe the best solution would be to just buff the melee ability of the throwing spear and make it only have 1 ammo? Make it a bit longer or something. I haven't tried it in melee to be honest, but I guess that would be the easiest way to make a nice spear that you can throw.

[Casimir]

Throwing lances are pretty much this no?

[Warcat]

That's exactly what throwing lances are. I've gotten numerous melee kills with them.

[Player_01]

/historical bullshit

This is completely not true. Actual Spartans - Spartiates - wouldn't ever engage enemies at range because they considered it to be unhonorable and cowardish. For that reason in Spartan army there were actual peltasts, javelin throwers and other skirmishers who were all Helots.

Read the original post. The movie 300 was to be an example not a history lesson.

If there was a PT requirement to throw (for example) the warspear, wouldn't that also mean you would need the PT just to equip it? That would mean you couldn't use it if you were just a normal spearman. And making 2 different versions, one throwable and one not, would be very confusing. Maybe the best solution would be to just buff the melee ability of the throwing spear and make it only have 1 ammo? Make it a bit longer or something. I haven't tried it in melee to be honest, but I guess that would be the easiest way to make a nice spear that you can throw.

That's what i'm trying to think through right now, the spears WOULD start out in ranged mode and possibly put a PT requirement on the weapon as a whole. I'm doing research as to how this could be remedied, as this idea almost made it into cRPG before.

Throwing lances are pretty much this no?

Pretty much, it would just add some flavorful versatility.

[EponiCo]

I don't think it would be a great idea to include this on a larger scale especially without PD requirement.
Oh, you blocked everything and there's 2 other people coming? Eat my spear.
I can only imagine a few other situations where you'd want to throw it if it is you main weapon.

[MrShovelFace]

dude it would be awesome if we could throw any weapon. THROWING SWORDS - THROWING HAMMERS - THROWING CLUBS - THROWING LANCES eeerrr... - THROWING MACES - THROWING STICKS

you get the idea.

+1 for this idea as its totally not exploitable

[H3ADSH0T]

I don't think its exploitable even in the least bit. Right now the only difference between this idea and the current throwing spear or the lance is that you could fight with it before throwing it. If it was so monumentally OP to be able to throw a spear thats not as long as the warhammer, make the transition between ranged and melee mode take as long as it would take to switch between a melee weapon and a throwing weapon...

The reason I would like this to be possible is so I have an alternative to shield and spear if I need it....currently wielding a shield and spear is basically useless in a fight against an opponent that is aware of you. People say of course, "Spear and shield (or spears as a whole) are a support weapon. This is just an excuse. I think that the player who chose to throw his ONE spear would be penalized more for that action,, beyond the fact he could miss, hit a shield, or die in the process.  The only other thing I can think to question is what the intention of throwing lance (which isn't even a lance) is, when it requires 6 PT, has only one missile, and looks from the stats to be an entirely subpar melee weapon in the first place.