OP Horse Archers

[Kafein]

Btw, ever seen a end round with 1 HA vs 3 melee ?


That's exactly what makes that class broken.

[Overdriven]

Btw, ever seen a end round with 1 HA vs 3 melee ?


That's exactly what makes that class broken.

Yes...and a lot of the time the HA has run out of arrows and then is screwed and gets kicked either for delaying or goes and finds a weapon and then dies.

I've only seen a few cases where the HA has won.

[Erathsmus]

I played HA a couple times, whenever I was the last person left, I got off the horse and melee'd. (though I was one of the worst horse archers in all of history)

[DesertEagle]

Yes...and a lot of the time the HA has run out of arrows and then is screwed and gets kicked either for delaying or goes and finds a weapon and then dies.

They just pick up arrows and shoot time continues.

[Overdriven]

They just pick up arrows and shoot time continues.

It's pretty hard to do that whilst riding around trying to avoid the melee and looking for arrows. Plus the thing of dropping arrows if you pick up one of a different type makes it quite difficult.

[Seawied]

It's pretty hard to do that whilst riding around trying to avoid the melee and looking for arrows. Plus the thing of dropping arrows if you pick up one of a different type makes it quite difficult.

Pretty much this right here. Its difficult to pick up large weapons on horseback, let alone arrows. Not to mention that you can't stop or you get shot right away.

[Bulzur]

Pretty much this right here. Its difficult to pick up large weapons on horseback, let alone arrows. Not to mention that you can't stop or you get shot right away.

You can get shot by melee while picking up arrows ? 

[Erathsmus]

You can get shot by melee while picking up arrows ? 

Yes, if you drink a certain fluid, you can spit so outrageously fast, it can knock down even zombies.

[Seawied]

Yes, if you drink a certain fluid, you can spit so outrageously fast, it can knock down even zombies.

quoted for truth!

[Kenji]

By aboozing I meant somebody that does nothing but horse bump to get kills. In NA I saw some lulzbuild like this (BeastLover and some other names I can't remember) but it was more annoying than really doing anything else.

It can be perceived in another way named 'assist'.

Would I rather accidentally lance my ally or bump an enemy and accidentally slash my teammate? No. I've done those more times than I'd shamefully admit.

It's not cheap (Both in literal and figurative meanings), and when the friends and foes are twisting around in circles landing hits, it's hard to coordinate and bump at the right time. (And they can kill/tk you with all the momentum charging through)

Of course, a successful assist bump would give a friend the upper hand to kill the enemy, while a failure could ignite the flames of rage and blame.

I often receive more blames for a few mistakes I've made than gratitude for the times I've assisted. But I guess that's how I get better.

[Malaclypse]

They just pick up arrows and shoot time continues.

Luckily the current state of x-bows allows for people with no proficiency to pick them up and use em. I'm sure they could find some about as easily as the HA could find arrows in that scenario.

[Fandrall]

First: +1 to you Kesh.

And now to my wall of text...

Unfortunately, this is a flawed analogy to HA. If HA is scissors, there exists no rock. The class doesn't have a real counter.

Luckily, HA's scissors are dull and generally not very dangerous. Their supreme survivability and lack of real counters would be an issue if they could rack up kills like no tomorrow. They can't.

HA's are fine. Fucking annoying, but fine.

You are right there is no counter class to the HA. And you're right about the flawed analogy too but thats what I was getting at. This game is not about paper-rock-scissor and if you argue like it was you get all kinds of wrongs. In WoW you balance classes so that they are stronger against some and weaker against others with a total of +-0. That game is made in a paper-rock-scissor way but in this game (mod) its not. Instead it has three capabilities: protection, firepower and maneuverability (just like in military theory). IRL these are by default contra productive towards each other. For example the more protection you have the more you weigh and weight makes you loose maneuverability. Since the game is not RL rules like weapon proficiency loss due to weight has been made to mimic RL in order to get the balance. The balance is ofc not for each class towards every other but towards the capabilities of the classes. So if you have a class which have high maneuverability it should have average firepower and protection or some weakspot to not make it OP.

If you take the HA it has high maneuverability as it can ride. It has quite low protection as it cant invest much points in str or IF and if it takes heavy armor it looses accuracy (firepower). However if played by a player who knows what he's doing some maneuverability will spill over to protection as you can dodge, utilize the terrain and stay out of range. All in all I would say a HAs protection is average. When it comes to firepower the HA cant use the heaviest bows, it gets penalties for being mounted (if moving) and it has to choose high PD or high HA+WM. All in all I would say that the HA has low firepower. So like many said before the HA has high survivability but low killingpower. Such setup, or class if you will, will be able to engage a lot of different type of enemies due to its survivability but it will not be particularly strong against any of them.

However one could argue that the HA is very powerful agains melee cav as it easily can shoot down the horse and for that should be nerfed. I agree that HAs exells at horse killing but I would call that the melee cavs weakspot counter which prevents the melee cav from being OP. If you take a look at the melee cav it has high maneuverability due to the horse. It has average to high protection as it can invest quite a few points into str and IF, it uses heavier armor (wpp-loss effects melee less then ranged) and get the spill-over-effect from the maneuverability (just like the HA). Lastly it has high firepower as it utilizes the horses speed combined with a hard hitting weapon (which inf cant due to lack of horse). With high scores in all three capabilities there must be a weakspot to balance it all out and thats the combination of the horses weakness to arrows and the HAs ability to keep up. Without the horse the melee cav looses a lot in all three capabilities. So when the thread-starter gets dehorsed he cant kill stuff as easy as before and instead of train to get better he thinks the game should be made easier for him.

As for inf I think you need to get a little throwing back to counter cav. There should be an anti cav build(s) for those on foot too.

About the bump-shot thing, stay aware, learn to jump-slash, horsie-head-poke or just step aside. You think the HA magically learns bump-shot when he invest in HA skill? Just like every one else he has to train to master it. Btw you haters make it sound so easy. Ride around at full speed and never get hit, headshot inf and archers as you pass them by, dehorse cav in no time and-bump shot anyone without any risk.

@Kafein Could you explain what you mean by the 3vs1 example? I dont understand.

[Cyclopsided]

I need to record me playing horse archer and make a video.
Also, Bump shooting has no melee counter when done correctly. There is nothing they can do. They can't swing back to attack you because your first shot will hit them and stun them right before you impact (when they try to swing at you), and your second shot hits them before they get back up. You are too manueverable on a horse to MISS your bump. If I want to bump you; I WILL BUMP YOU.

regular play of HA is so easy, these complaints saying it is difficult make me cringe. You have to try to not be effective. For example, you would have to choose to suicide your horse into enemy lancers [or walls by infantry, lol what] and you would have to choicefully not fire your bow. Because if you just fucking spam arrows the entire time in people's general directions I guarantee you will get many assists if not kills.

[Overdriven]

I need to record me playing horse archer and make a video.
Also, Bump shooting has no melee counter when done correctly. There is nothing they can do. They can't swing back to attack you because your first shot will hit them and stun them right before you impact (when they try to swing at you), and your second shot hits them before they get back up. You are too manueverable on a horse to MISS your bump. If I want to bump you; I WILL BUMP YOU.

regular play of HA is so easy, these complaints saying it is difficult make me cringe. You have to try to not be effective. For example, you would have to choose to suicide your horse into enemy lancers [or walls by infantry, lol what] and you would have to choicefully not fire your bow. Because if you just fucking spam arrows the entire time in people's general directions I guarantee you will get many assists if not kills.

If you're using an Arabian yes. But with my courser it's really not easy to turn at speed enough to bump them to make them crash to the floor, or even just interrupt them without them managing to get a loljumpslash in or sidestepping and hacking my horse.. The lack of manoeuvre hurts from that pov. I think this is really only effective properly using an Arabian.

If any one spams arrows Marathon you can get assists, you'll probably get a fair few team hits too. Fact is though getting kills isn't quite so easy a lot of the time. It's very very map dependent for most HA and against all but the weakest players it takes a fair few arrows. Fact is, it may be easy for you But the majority of the time I see anyone on EU as HA, they don't have a very good K/D. Only a few regularly get one.

[Dezilagel]

If you're using an Arabian yes. But with my courser it's really not easy to turn at speed enough to bump them to make them crash to the floor, or even just interrupt them without them managing to get a loljumpslash in or sidestepping and hacking my horse.. The lack of manoeuvre hurts from that pov. I think this is really only effective properly using an Arabian.

If any one spams arrows Marathon you can get assists, you'll probably get a fair few team hits too. Fact is though getting kills isn't quite so easy a lot of the time. It's very very map dependent for most HA and against all but the weakest players it takes a fair few arrows. Fact is, it may be easy for you But the majority of the time I see anyone on EU as HA, they don't have a very good K/D. Only a few regularly get one.

Oh cmon, you can't be serious?

Are you saying that because you are choosing to "gimp" yourself by using a courser and are therefore not able to keep melee constantly stunned using bumps, HA vs melee balance is fine?

As stated earlier, the problem with HA is NOT their massive k:d, but the fact that they force upon everyone else on the battlefield a defensive and boring playstyle, and that they are so godawful annoying to fight if you don't have the right equipment.

Let's face it, they effectively deny all oter classes the opportunity to flank (notice how the massive influx of lancers and ha have almost removed ninjas), leading to more campers surviving. And the best counter to HA and lancers is to camp... So there's effectively no reason not to camp since you no longer have to fear flanking infantry and rushing will only get your team killed (by campers and cav).

For me, m@b is at it's best when the battlefield is dynamic, with melees going on everywhere, cav charging and archers supporting. It's at it's worst when it's just a big campfest,