Poll

Would you like to see more open plains maps in rotation?

Yes
54 (58.7%)
No
29 (31.5%)
I'm a nub
9 (9.8%)

Total Members Voted: 92

Voting closed: August 19, 2011, 12:42:23 am

Author Topic: Open Plains  (Read 10956 times)

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Offline Fluffy_Muffin

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Re: Open Plains
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2011, 06:44:34 pm »
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Yes but the thing you see as shield walls and pikes and such are not some grand teamwork plans, that is just people adapting to the map that is presented to them. Just like in city maps you have archers going on roofs, or shielders atacking archers, groups advancing on each other etc, village map camping hills or villages and such.

My point being: just because it doesent look like some kind of formation doesent mean that teamwork isnt being used. Teamwork is a integral part of every map not just plains. It is just more obvious at plains maps because you can see all the people together in clusters (mainly in this way protecting themselves from being picked off) and other would be formations that the map requires.

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Offline Fluffy_Muffin

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Re: Open Plains
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2011, 06:48:14 pm »
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And for all the pubs out there, well this may be harsh or unfair to players that wish to play solo but realy they should join clans to experience teamwork, and not just oh cool its a shieldwall let me stand near them.

Another thing i wanted to point out is calvary formations which can be used to effect on plains maps and the strenght of them is aparent there and i understand your wish to have more of those, but it all comes down to map balance and as i said before the ratio should be equal for all kinds of maps.


Sorry for double post
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Open Plains
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2011, 06:49:28 pm »
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Yes but the thing you see as shield walls and pikes and such are not some grand teamwork plans, that is just people adapting to the map that is presented to them. Just like in city maps you have archers going on roofs, or shielders atacking archers, groups advancing on each other etc, village map camping hills or villages and such.

My point being: just because it doesent look like some kind of formation doesent mean that teamwork isnt being used. Teamwork is a integral part of every map not just plains. It is just more obvious at plains maps because you can see all the people together in clusters (mainly in this way protecting themselves from being picked off) and other would be formations that the map requires.

You're still missing the point. People jumping on roofs ect is all very well, but it's still just them working by themselves. I know there are small pockets of team work, but I rarely see a group of infantry actually working together (other than following each other towards the enemy), or cavalry forming together or archers focusing attacks. I'm talking about one or 2 guys taking command (hell we have a command system for a reason, otherwise just take it out of crpg) and some taking charge of cavalry, as a group, some of infantry, as a group, and some of archers ect, as a group. You never see that. It wasn't adaptation, it just happened that there were a few guys handing out orders and once you get a small group together, people tend to flock to that until they realise teamwork is actually helpful.

Again, I'm just saying, there aren't many pure open plains maps. They are either camp village, camp hill or random brawls. Cav formations aren't seen because often there's no point when everyone is on their own. When GK are together, regardless of the map, we form up together. Only the town maps we don't because you can't do it in a street very easily. But infantry ect don't work together on a big scale (which would be very useful on street maps) and the majority of the time archers don't all help each other out, focus fire on certain players/horses ect. But the point being, most maps you don't really need to work together because your in amongst the enemy and essentially reliant on your own skill.

Open plains maps require that you work together else you'll be caught out on your own in the wide open. Honestly I think they are more realistic. How many sieges ect actually ended up with open fighting in the streets between armies or two large bodies of men fighting over one tiny village? I just feel like they are a bit more realistic and so add a form of excitement to the game. I did say I don't expect every map to be this way. But it would be nice to see a few more of them.

EDIT: Sorry if my editing is a bit sporadic. I tend to post then edit and add stuff as I think of it later.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 06:59:14 pm by Overdriven »

Offline Fluffy_Muffin

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Re: Open Plains
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2011, 06:58:54 pm »
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You're still missing the point. People jumping on roofs ect is all very well, but it's still just them working by themselves. I know there are small pockets of team work, but I rarely see a group of infantry actually working together (other than following each other towards the enemy), or cavalry forming together or archers focusing attacks. I'm talking about one or 2 guys taking command (hell we have a command system for a reason, otherwise just take it out of crpg) and some taking charge of cavalry, as a group, some of infantry, as a group, and some of archers ect, as a group. You never see that. It wasn't adaptation, it just happened that there were a few guys handing out orders and once you get a small group together, people tend to flock to that until they realise teamwork is actually helpful.

Again, I'm just saying, there aren't many pure open plains maps. They are either camp village, camp hill or random brawls. Cav formations aren't seen because often there's no point when everyone is on their own. When GK are together, regardless of the map, we form up together. Only the town maps we don't because you can't do it in a street very easily. But infantry ect don't work together on a big scale (which would be very useful on street maps) and the majority of the time archers don't all help each other out, focus fire on certain players/horses ect. But the point being, most maps you don't really need to work together because your in amongst the enemy and essentially reliant on your own skill.

Open plains maps require that you work together else you'll be caught out on your own in the wide open. Honestly I think they are more realistic. How many sieges ect actually ended up with open fighting in the streets between armies? I just feel like they are a bit more realistic and so add a form of excitement to the game. I did say I don't expect every map to be this way. But it would be nice to see a few more of them.

Realism discussions are obsolete for various reasons so i wont go into that. And what exactly are you suggesting for the map frequency?
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Open Plains
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2011, 07:03:07 pm »
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Realism discussions are obsolete for various reasons so i wont go into that. And what exactly are you suggesting for the map frequency?

Wow...I wasn't saying weapons ect should be realistic which is an obsolete argument. I'm saying the open plains battles feel more realistic, i.e. like an actual battle. Else why are the battle servers called battle servers? Because honestly most of those aren't battles but essentially deathmatch, but without the re-spawning. They add excitement because you're in a big open battle that requires real tactics and that feels more like history than deathmatch battle mode and honestly I play this game because I love the historical aspect, I'm pretty sure many other's are the same, else we'd be playing modern warfare.

I'd suggest maps like the ones today probably coming in once every 4. That is, flat, with very slight hills, pockets of tree cover and no buildings. But only very very slight hills, so that you have a direct view to the enemy. Otherwise I'm fine with towns, villages, hill camp, whatever. Just we need more maps in rotation that are like that.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 07:04:55 pm by Overdriven »

Offline Fluffy_Muffin

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Re: Open Plains
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2011, 07:06:10 pm »
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1 out of 4 i dont mind that but isnt this already happening? Altho i dont know if there is a way to only include the flat ones, the hilly ones realy are horrible
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Offline Fluffy_Muffin

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Re: Open Plains
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2011, 07:08:33 pm »
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Any more frequent than that i would strongly disagree with but judging from the -1s i got it seems that people take a liking to these plain cav/archer clusterfucks.

Guess it would be good for pubbies seeing some intiative, one that is outside of the TS/vent of clans

Double post again -.-
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Open Plains
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2011, 07:11:34 pm »
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No worries about the double post lol.

Ah did your read my description of the maps? We get 1 in 4 random plains...often more than that.  I'd like to see open plains. Most of the maps we get are too hilly, or giant mountains ect. Hell maybe I should learn how to map on here so I can design them specifically (I have all summer to waste after all). But I'm talking about a very specific type of map, which we very very rarely get. Honestly 1 in 4 would be plenty. It's good to have variation in maps.

Has any one here ever played BF1942? Specifically the Forgotten Hope mod that was immensely popular in it's time. It covered every theatre of WW2 but with a fantastic mixture of air, naval, infantry, tanking and maps that encompassed all of those in one. The game had a huge player base for many years, even after it was long out dated, simply because of the variation and the fact there was something for everyone. But every map also encouraged team play. I just think we need better variation and design of maps. Albeit it was possible with BF1942 simply because the maps could be anything from tiny to huge. But the variation at the moment is very limited on all crpg servers.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 07:20:29 pm by Overdriven »

Offline Lorenzo_of_Iberia

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Re: Open Plains
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2011, 07:13:09 pm »
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I vote against umbra and play the lets have a random plains dedicated server  :twisted: If there's even a remote chance we can get a 'teamwork > no. of individual skilled players' mentality into this game then please more open plains :D
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Offline Lichen

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Re: Open Plains
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2011, 07:27:50 pm »
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I like plains maps and I'm not cav. I agree it promotes teamwork since most players realize they will quickly be dead if they don't stick together. I think some don't like them because it nullifies their ability to RAMBO opponents 1 by 1. Just once I'd like to hear someone say 'not another congested CITY map!'. Cause those get old.

Offline Unreal

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Re: Open Plains
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2011, 07:40:57 pm »
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I agree with the organized battles and teamwork fun factor.
But, that's where tourneys and strategus(lol) come in.
Being a public server rarely you will see organized battles, I like to play hero too, cut loose from the mob.
Also there are some very fun close quarter maps, like Mustikki´s swadia riot? (the one with dungeon underground and the gallows) some fast action there.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Open Plains
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2011, 09:50:45 pm »
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I did not read everything, but I'm all for more FLAT, open terrains. The usual random plain mountain map is horrible because it promotes camping to a whole new level. However really flat maps are encouraging players to make a formation, and use all their weapons and shields in a team-friendly manner.

On a village map, you can just go on a roof and shoot the enemy, not even paying attention to what are your buddies doing. That's not teamwork.


BTW : I'm mostly playing a pikeman at the moment. I enjoy seeing players organising themselves around other players rather than around buildings and crap on the ground.

And if you want to help : generate a flat map, add a few trees or a river and participate in the Pecores map contest (link in my signature) with your minute-maid map. We are looking for game-design, not artistic work.

Offline Glyph

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Re: Open Plains
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2011, 09:54:59 pm »
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first of all, i am a non-deticaded cav player. and i've played shielder, archers, 2hander and more, but what i like best is open maps where real team-play is used. some one said that if an archer on a roof gets a lot of kills that is teamplay, that getting as fast to the enemy just like your 15 friends is teamplay, that taking not a big risk when you have a shield so you go attack archers is teamplay, but i don't think that's true. what I believe is teamplay is that people look at what their friends are doing and supporting them doing that, protecting an archer from incoming cav. and noticing that the role of your team is more important then your own, if you want to win. but that isn't the best tactic in all maps, nor situations. but in an open map this is the best way to win and enlargen your chances to survive along with your teammates. and many think that cav is OP in open maps, but i don't. when i saw a cav when i was an archer, i would start shooting at it. say "incoming cavalry" via the command system and looking back and forth to protect my allies and mostly scare the cavalry of. and now i see why it scares cav of, because if you lose your horse in the middle of the enemy infanterie, your doomed. sometimes there maybe some friends around, or the massive attack is going on, but that isn't quite as often as one would think. :wink:

so my conclusion: cav isn't a problem, real teamwork(according to my own oppinion) and a more chalanging way of winning and therefore a more fun way of winning round.
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Offline Panoply

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Re: Open Plains
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2011, 11:11:06 pm »
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As a 2h who carries a shield, I'd love to see more open plains maps. Yes, other maps benefit from teamwork, but the scale just isn't the same.

Offline Gnjus

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Re: Open Plains
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2011, 12:14:51 am »
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.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 12:18:24 am by Gnjus »
Do you honestly think you have any sort of moral authority, Reyiz? Go genocide some more armenians and deny it ever happened, please, and stay in the middle east.
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