Author Topic: Ranged  (Read 3876 times)

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Offline mr_baby_head

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Ranged
« on: January 23, 2018, 12:18:17 pm »
-2
Everybody knows there is a ranged problem, every day its is complained about en masse. While I do think most classes are fairly balanced archers are not, any form of ranged player just should not be able to compete in terms of wep speed, melee damage (preferably not running speed too, but that would be highly unfair). It takes me long enough as a melee player to reach an archer (especially 2+) without getting shot to shit, when I do reach them I don't expect to get 2 shot with some ultra fast mega damage sperg weapon.

IMO ranged players make their choice to have an advantage over melee players, this being there bow, xbow. They should not be able to then duel or groupfight on equal footing, end of. Throwing is maybe a different matter because of the range you can use most throwing weps from (very close to be at all accurate) but archers are in a shitty place right now.

The fact is we have all been playing this game for at least 5 years now, most more than that. We have all reached peak performance and so should expect the skill level to be higher, but I do believe there is a solution. Either caps on how much prof you can put into weapon points or increase the cost as you put more points into a particular one. This would reduce complaints about movement speed for melee heroes, AND reduce accuracy of ranged. We all like to think we are God-Tier players and so maybe we should think about making the game hard again (for everyone). The only thing the majority of players want is a FAIR FIGHT (except cheaters).



I'm expecting the usual ignorant replies of "shield blah blah blah" , "I'm already inaccurate as fuck", "protect your own archers". So any comments in the like will be ignored.
I just want to have a conversation about potential fixes because this is what will kill the mod.

Offline Uther Pendragon

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Re: Ranged
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2018, 12:45:58 pm »
+15
I'd love to move this thread to the chamber of tears, but doing it on mobile is too much effort
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Offline Corsair831

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Re: Ranged
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2018, 12:49:48 pm »
+17
As i said in the other similar thread by Panos

All of these 2h heroes who refuse to do anything to counter ranged, complaining about dieing to it all the time, whilst at the same time being able to tank on average 74,000 arrows, one shot any archer with their sword which practically outranges throwing weapons, and move at 3,000,000 mph.

If you ever die to an archer in melee, you're just not very good. It's like a level 30 pure duel build dieing to a level 20 pure duel build.

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Offline darmaster

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Re: Ranged
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2018, 12:58:19 pm »
+1
the only real thing wrong with ranged is the random 4 decades lasting stun which occurs every once in a while (no, i know for sure it's not headshot related), don't know if it's a only xbow feature or what, but it's really, really annoying; it like pushes you back and there's a retard animation that takes about 2 or 3 seconds to complete. one other thing i personally disliked back when i played ( :cry: ) was archers 1 shotting me in the head despite having a STR build (24 - 18 with 3 IF and 47 head armor), but that is probably caused by most archers having super STR builds (there was a comparison with xbow thread which impressed me) and the fact i was probably holding an attack (the difference between being hit while holding an attack and not it's jaw-dropping); maybe archers accuracy for super strenght builds should be nerfed? i don't know, i've never played ranged.
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Offline Paul

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Re: Ranged
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2018, 02:10:28 pm »
+16
Geez, this types of threads have been going on for years.
Each and everyone more stupid than the other, seeing how weak ranged is now compared to Native.
Tactically speaking, if you get killed by ranged in cRPG it's your own fault.

As a matter of fact, ranged damage has probably been declining over the years.

Shooters deal less and less damage, being on the receiving end of the nerf stick for years.
Headshots used to be instant deaths - nowadays not so much.
Intelligent movement patterns to dodge projectiles is often enough thanks to the low shot speed.
Equipment adaption to protect oneself is easier than ever thanks to 0 req shields.
Lastly protecting your own ranged from time to time helps a lot to keep the opposing rangers occupied.
Denying all this and demanding nerfs is tradition here though.

Offline the real god emperor

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Re: Ranged
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2018, 02:54:43 pm »
+3
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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Ranged
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2018, 03:01:58 pm »
+8
Ranged stagger could go, that's one thing I agree with. Losing control of your character for a considerable amount of time, even though you've not done any mistakes, is not an enjoyable experience. Polearm stagger was removed, and rightly so. Is the long ranged stagger animation based on a percentage chance or damage threshold? Some explanation would be nice.

Nerfing accuracy is a no-no. If you can't control where your arrows/bolts are going, where's the skill involved? You should be rewarded for being good at your class. I also see no problem with archers and crossbowmen being able to fight back in melee. Their builds are far less optimized for melee combat, and they'll be at a significant disadvantage when you catch them in melee. It's much more enjoyable than an archer being able to kite forever, but with only a pickaxe to defend himself. Now an archer can kite quite well, but need to hit his shots to keep distance. This rewards skill. If you hit your shots, you'll be able to kite, if you don't, you're engaged in melee at a disadvantage. You're also able to use nudges to create distance again, while a missed nudge will leave you open to a hit from the enemy. Risk vs. reward.

I'm not gonna lie, I despise being shot over and over, but who doesn't? Ranged classes are still part of the game and are supposed to punish players over distance, for bad positions, decisions and other factors. The reduced movement and melee capabilities of these classes balances it out well. If you're out in the open with no backup against enemy ranged, you've made a mistake, or your team is getting stomped. Either way, you shouldn't be expected to brush off incoming arrows.

Class balance would be nice, if possible, as it would not hurt the classes directly, but help reduce ranged problems on the servers. Removal of the ranged stagger could maybe be tested out though.
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Offline Grimoald

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Re: Ranged
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2018, 03:02:57 pm »
+5
I`m playing as an archer for ages now, and I can tell you it`s nerfed into the ground. You can`t run away like before, neither you can fight someone if you go full archer build like me. That`s my lvl 33 build.
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Altough I`m full archer build I need 3-4 arrows  for a lvl 30 kuyak my old frienduseing 21/18 (4if). Tincans in a strat battle need 5-6. I can kill only 5% of the player`s on EU1 with a single arrow in the head.
I think it`s pathetic that so many people still cry about ranged.
Don`t you think that there are way too many 2h / pole heroes running around without a shield?
I have to admit that ranged is annoying as fuck, if you play without a shield ,but that`s how it is. You are still playing a medieval based game.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 03:06:27 pm by Grimoald »

Offline Asheram

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Re: Ranged
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2018, 08:48:28 pm »
0
seeing how weak ranged is now compared to Native.
lol Native gets 28 bodkin arrows a bag as opposed to the 18  bodkins you get a bag at +3 here. 2 slots 56 arrows there 2 slots 36 here, they get 3 bags of ammo to the 2 bags archers get here.
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Offline mr_baby_head

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Re: Ranged
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2018, 10:15:18 pm »
-2
Nice to see the least constructive conversation coming from head admins and devs. Either way, as expected this thread is going nowhere so lock it or leave it idgaf.

Offline BlackxBird

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Re: Ranged
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2018, 10:25:39 pm »
-1
Instead of QQing about how op ranged is (which especially archery is not), QQ about how many there are. With a pop of 30 or lower, the team with the better/more ranged players wins. Pretty simple. I hate it. That's why I basicly stopped playing EU1, as my favourite classes simply get rekt. Go play strat. There are also a shitton of ranged, but enough melee fight to get over it.

And btw to all these really intelligent people saying "get a shield": As a normal thinking player I either hide or fight. If I hide, I don't fucking need a shield and if I fight I can't fucking use a shield.

And to all those saying "omg not this kind of shit again". They did. But not once a day from different people.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 10:29:01 pm by BlackxBird »

Offline Mr_Oujamaflip

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Re: Ranged
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2018, 10:35:22 pm »
0
Now that crossbows have less numbers there's more archers. This means more arrows, this means more chance of getting hit.

IMO reduce ammo amounts, they can always run out of cover to get more arrows. Although that would mean fixing the slots with different arrow types.

Offline Ikarus

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Re: Ranged
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2018, 12:03:50 am »
0
there's a shitton of archers out there, that's true

but it's also nice to run them over with a heavy horse/1h/shield build again and again until my team or my horse finishes them off

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Offline Corsair831

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Re: Ranged
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2018, 12:29:41 am »
-2
Instead of QQing about how op ranged is (which especially archery is not), QQ about how many there are. With a pop of 30 or lower, the team with the better/more ranged players wins. Pretty simple. I hate it. That's why I basicly stopped playing EU1, as my favourite classes simply get rekt. Go play strat. There are also a shitton of ranged, but enough melee fight to get over it.

And btw to all these really intelligent people saying "get a shield": As a normal thinking player I either hide or fight. If I hide, I don't fucking need a shield and if I fight I can't fucking use a shield.

And to all those saying "omg not this kind of shit again". They did. But not once a day from different people.

These type of comments honestly make me laugh.

My main, 18/21 1h shield spear, arming sword, heavy round  shield, 9.6 weight body armour, 165 1h wpf, can 2 shot kill most archers, tank 3-4 arrows and easily outrun them. The shield with 6 shield skill can tank frankly ridiculous numbers of arrows and affords a huge degree of protection.

The team with the higher number of archers does -not- always win. Shit, most of my kills are probably bloody archers, they just die so damn easily in melee, and as said, my shield tanks about 3,000 arrows with a huge forcefield so there's little danger of being shot.

Perhaps try playing a bit of native to learn how to counter them, come back to cRPG and see how truly ridiculously weak/farmable cRPG archers are if you actually take the time to counter them.
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Offline Casul

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Re: Ranged
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2018, 12:37:47 am »
+1
Archer damage is a joke. Their shooting speed is another really edgy mom joke. Arrow weight is not even funny anymore.

But the only thing that ever really bothered me, accuracy, is still incredibly high.

I dont even duel anymore if theres one of the more known archers around, they can just easily headshot you while youre dueling. Thats dumb and should not be possible, I cant do anything, I will lose no matter what I do, they will run away the moment I leave the melee guy behind and will accuratly aim for your head when you want to deal with your melee enemy. Thats pure bullshit I have to say.

Everything else got nerfed, everything that was actually fine before, but not this.
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