Meanwhile in tax haven

[Grytviken]

No, she did it so she could hide how much money she has, to avoid taxes. Not to 'avoid the hassle of travelling'. You don't fucking hire a law firm and pay large amounts of money so they can hire someone to pretend to be the beneficiary just so you 'avoid the paperwork and stuff'.

When you invest in a bank you are doing them a favor, she doesn't have to be there in person to close her account she can have someone else do it for her, but in order to bring the money back she has to report where it came from and everything and eat the 66% tax I think it is in the US when she brings it back, so she probably ended up losing out everything she made using an offshore account and the US government gave her the same rate she would have gotten if she just did the same thing in a bank in New York essentially in the end.

 Maybe she did try to game the system, I guess we will never know unless they reveal all the info, but it seems pretty easy for BBC to hold alot of information back to hype up the story. I looked up her name and there's no mention of fraud or any other court cases

Also alot of money is being transferred and moving internationally, it requires alot of work. Hiring a firm and paying $30,000 sounds about right, they are charging $1000+ dollars an hour plus paperwork and other legal fees. Most legit people doing this are leaving the money in the offshore accounts and never bring it back because it's not worth it to bring it back, you will get taxed the same rates as if you never invested it overseas, unless you live in some sketchy country and know the right people. You can live like a king in South America collecting tax free interest if your account is large enough it will pay for itself for the rest of your life, and Panama grants automatic residency to investors. If enough media attention shakes things up you could also see this tax haven utopia disappear overnight if enough investors pull out and alot of people will lose their money. So I guess there was always a risk to start with, but people should be able to do with they want their own money right?

[Butan]

What is hidden cannot be trusted.

States can be corrupted Xant, but at least they are in the public eye.
It benefits everyone if everyone pays his taxes, then we can check what the government does with it; rather than let everyone do as they please, and noone can do justice.

[ecorcheur_brokar]

Also no/few US people named (yet)? Just seems kinda weird. Either they do it another way or through another company, or they're not being exposed yet for some reason.

http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2016/04/the-panama-papers-where-are-the-americans-000083
Tltr: People in the US can do it legally in Nevada or Delaware.

It's nice that traffic lights work and someone goes out there and maintains them, but that doesn't mean it's terribly interesting to me, personally, and I don't see why it would be to someone else either, even if the media's breaking news was that humans maintain traffic lights, not magic. I certainly don't see what the point of talking about it is.

If the guy fixing the light is not joing his job correctly his boss will fire him up. Now if a politican is not doing his job correctly who's going to fire him up, Iceland PM would not have resigned if people didn't put pressure on him. Politcians are corrupted enough with pressure from the press and the people, just look how it goes in the US when no ones cares about politicians taking money from firms and lobbys. Sure indignation is not the most efficient way to make things advance but before we get some better democratic system that's the best people have pull out so far (btw iceland is trying to have some reformation of its democratic system to have a better control over its politicians, their new constitution is pretty intersting and its process of its creation too).

[Xant]

Guys, let's say you own 1 billion dollars. You have a choice of giving, let's say, ~40% of it - 400 millions or keep it all. Yes, giving it to government will lead to having better roads in country, healthcare and other stuff (in theory), but you don't need it because you have a private jet and healthcare facility with your name on the building.

I'm not defending tax evasion, but their actions are perfectly understandable from their perspective.

Or it'll lead to the government shoveling those 400 millions to "Syrian" refugees who bring rape and terror with them. Why would you want to pay your hard earned money for retarded causes like that?

[Kafein]

Xant, what has been the net impact of the existence of a central government in your country over your past life, positive or negative? As opposed to anarchy, I mean.

In my country, the government is also shoveling millions to pay schools and hospitals, just saying.

[Xant]

Xant, what has been the net impact of the existence of a central government in your country over your past life, positive or negative? As opposed to anarchy, I mean.

Negative. I would be some kind of an obscenely rich warlord if it weren't for those meddling fools.

In my country, the government is also shoveling millions to pay schools and hospitals, just saying.

Yes, of course, they must keep up appearances, mustn't they, Kafein? There are more effective ways to fund such things.

Not to mention that no country has intelligent tax laws (LVT for example) at the moment.

[Kafein]

Negative. I would be some kind of an obscenely rich warlord if it weren't for those meddling fools.

I don't think you would, but this is an hypothetical anyway.

Yes, of course, they must keep up appearances, mustn't they, Kafein?

I don't really care about why public services exist. The system is such that it happens.

There are more effective ways to fund such things.

I won't deny that, but I will also point out that there are less effective ways as well.

[Kalam]

There's only one way to settle this, Xant and Kafein.

RL duel. No clothes. No weapons. All man.

If you behave anything like you do on forums, I think you'd be killed. I think most of us would. The soft farmers won, in the long run. We are their progeny.

The thing that surprised me about this was the amount of eggs in this basket. I'm guessing there aren't too many great baskets? I honestly thought offshore tax firms were more...distributed. And perhaps they are. The journalists could've simply gotten lucky (I'm not saying they didn't put it thousands of hours of good work, etc, just that it seems odd that one firm would be connected to so many people), here.

And before we disparage them for their choices...how many of you download entertainment for free? How many filed taxes for cash only transactions?

[Xant]

I don't think you would, but this is an hypothetical anyway.

I would literally - yes, literally - be a Finnish Genghis Khan. With me, the glorious master race, Finns, would rise anew. It'd be a new Golden Age for all Europe, after it was brought under my yoke. Yea, I would be a harsh but fair master. And I would institute land value tax.

[Butan]

Such life goals.

[Kafein]

Such life goals.

I've heard worse ones.

And before we disparage them for their choices...how many of you download entertainment for free? How many filed taxes for cash only transactions?

Ranking these as anything but inconsequential would be failing to understand the point of taxation.

[Kalam]

Ranking these as anything but inconsequential would be failing to understand the point of taxation.

You're right about that.

I don't know if a lot of the rage that stems from the 'common man' is due to the impact of untaxed revenue, though.

I think it's just 'rich people breaking rules'. That's the sentiment that comment is addressing.

[Leshma]

There's only one way to settle this, Xant and Kafein.

RL duel. No clothes. No weapons. All man.

Xant and Kafein aren't real people. Didn't chadz tell you about them?

[Xant]

And before we disparage them for their choices...how many of you download entertainment for free? How many filed taxes for cash only transactions?

That's a good observation, and the crux of the matter, really.

I don't know if a lot of the rage that stems from the 'common man' is due to the impact of untaxed revenue, though.

Just so -- I posit that anyone claiming to be outraged because of the impact of untaxed revenue is lying - probably to themselves, too.

This thread has actually been enjoyable. People, unwittingly, following their evolutionary instincts, tacking on reasons for their indignation after-the-fact. And believing in those reasons themselves! The way the human brain works can be beautiful in its predictability.

For anyone wishing to understand themselves, I recommend starting by reading The Moral Animal.

Xant and Kafein aren't real people. Didn't chadz tell you about them?

You take that back.

[Turkhammer]

Xant, what has been the net impact of the existence of a central government in your country over your past life, positive or negative? As opposed to anarchy, I mean.

In my country, the government is also shoveling millions to pay schools and hospitals, just saying.

And how much money shoveled to a bloated bureaucracy of civil servants to administer it all?  Not to mention the over layer of the EU Brussels bureaucrats.