C-rpg international presidential polls of the greatest country in the galaxy.

[Kafein]

Feel free but that's pretty much identical to not voting.

What do I personally gain out of choosing one option out of two I almost equally despise? Voting for either would be accepting that this vote somehow represents a decent share of my opinions. That would be a total travesty, and the only real way to waste my vote, probably worse than not voting at all.

As for being identical to not voting, the elections are the only opinion polls that actually matter. People from both major parties look at how the independents are doing. Look at France, a country that if anything has a weaker bipartite culture but still, the rise of FN has fundamentally changed how the two main parties position themselves. Even if FN never gets into power, they already created deep changes in french politics. Strong independents are among the only way to get politicians from major parties to do the things you want them to do.

This view that elections are there to choose a majority is overly simplistic. Don't forget, politicians usually play a long game, and winning that long game involves more than anything else to know where the wind is blowing. Elections are the best way to tell that.

[Algarn]

What do I personally gain out of choosing one option out of two I almost equally despise? Voting for either would be accepting that this vote somehow represents a decent share of my opinions. That would be a total travesty, and the only real way to waste my vote, probably worse than not voting at all.

As for being identical to not voting, the elections are the only opinion polls that actually matter. People from both major parties look at how the independents are doing. Look at France, a country that if anything has a weaker bipartite culture but still, the rise of FN has fundamentally changed how the two main parties position themselves. Even if FN never gets into power, they already created deep changes in french politics. Strong independents are among the only way to get politicians from major parties to do the things you want them to do.

This view that elections are there to choose a majority is overly simplistic. Don't forget, politicians usually play a long game, and winning that long game involves more than anything else to know where the wind is blowing. Elections are the best way to tell that.

Well, if FN, or any kind of extreme left or right party gets elected, they'll make things go worse certainly, much more than by staying out of power. Look at the PiS in Poland, I'm sure that the newly elected FN wouldn't spit on imposing their own rules and stuff. But you're right on the point that they completely destroyed bipartism, along with the traditional left versus right wing ideology. I don't think I'd have imaginated, even remotely, having a left wing government promoting laws in favor of enterprises, or the deprivation of nationality when Hollande was elected back in 2012.

And on topic, both candidates are liars, and I'm disappointed that so many people didn't choose the 3rd option.

[Jeade]

Well, between Clinton and Trump, instead of not voting, I'll write in or go independent.
And no, it's not

pretty much identical to not voting.

If everyone actually voted for who they wanted and ignored party lines, elections would look quite different.
A very common sentiment in the US is "voting for the lesser of two evils" and it's something I've found most will admit when asked about it.
Even if your third party guy doesn't win, it can make waves, and that's good enough for me. Keep 'em on their toes.

[Sir_Hans]

It is virtually identical to not voting.
All it does is deny your vote from both democratic and republican party. Same as not voting.

True if everyone ignored party lines it would look much different, but it would look pretty much identical if those same people just didn't vote. UNLESS an independent candidate actually won, which isn't really going to happen at all... Sadly it's a money game and candidates who run independent rarely have the funds to compete with republican/democratic parties regardless of how much better that independent candidate is over republican/democratic front runners.

If you vote independent and you see an independent candidate voted into office in your lifetime I will eat my hat.

[LordBerenger]

Well, between Clinton and Trump, instead of not voting, I'll write in or go independent.
And no, it's not
If everyone actually voted for who they wanted and ignored party lines, elections would look quite different.
A very common sentiment in the US is "voting for the lesser of two evils" and it's something I've found most will admit when asked about it.
Even if your third party guy doesn't win, it can make waves, and that's good enough for me. Keep 'em on their toes.

Vote Bernie Sanders

[Kafein]

It is virtually identical to not voting.
All it does is deny your vote from both democratic and republican party. Same as not voting.

True if everyone ignored party lines it would look much different, but it would look pretty much identical if those same people just didn't vote. UNLESS an independent candidate actually won, which isn't really going to happen at all... Sadly it's a money game and candidates who run independent rarely have the funds to compete with republican/democratic parties regardless of how much better that independent candidate is over republican/democratic front runners.

If you vote independent and you see an independent candidate voted into office in your lifetime I will eat my hat.

You don't get it. What you vote for doesn't depend on the outcome. Your vote matters regardless. Sure, a lot of people play the second order beauty contest but that's just one of the many silly things that douchebag tribal brain likes to do. What you as an intelligent person is actually interested in is not the specifics of who is elected but rather the specifics of what gets done. The first part only partially determines the other, and then to a varying degree. By voting for what you really want, you are changing the balance of ideologies in the democratic market and more importantly by making that statement in an election, you are much more strongly influencing the perception of that ideological balance. That is how you create actual political change, without grabbing a gun anyway.

Just make a thought experiment: if Bernie Sanders goes independent and gets 15% of voters (in a proportional way, i.e. counting human voters), do you think the decisions of the next government will be exactly the same as if he had 5%? Do you think that next elections, the positions on Bernie's strong issues by the major parties will not change? And if you want to look at things from another perspective, if you vote for a major party, you vote is worth exactly the same weight as that of any uninformed drone. In fact, it is indistinguishable from it. What good is it to disagree with somebody if you are still going to vote for them? Why do you even care?

[Sir_Hans]

Don't get me wrong, I don't care too much. I am not against anyone voting independent. I just think it changes very little, though if we're talking about bernie here than no doubt the majority of people who would be voting Bernie Sanders would, if faced with a better candidate than hilary, most likely vote democratic. Which honestly I would be thrilled for, The more democrats who vote independent when bernie doesn't win democratic primaries, the less votes hilary gets. Which just increases Trumps chances at winning. 

To answer your question, No, I don't think the decisions of the next government (same government) will be altered in any meaningful way because of 15% voters going independent. Candidates in future elections may try to adopt bernie's stances on the campaign trail but I don't think it will change their decisions once they get in office.

[Bronto]

The sad truth is, it doesn't matter. Only 1 election in history came down to citizen voters, the rest determined by the electoral college. We're in for whatever is planned and more politicians doing jack shit except preserving their cushy jobs, superior health care, and fat salaries. I am disappointed in all of the options we've been given and will probably vote for myself. You all should do the same. Bronto 2016. I'll legalize weed, remove obamacare so we have a competitive market and lower rates once again, and instead of a wall, I'll build a moat. We're surrounded by water on two sides, I'll make it four!

[LordBerenger]

2020, Kanye West will be elected president. Save this post for future reference.

[Jeade]

Candidates in future elections may try to adopt bernie's stances

But really, Clinton already has.
If Sanders had been running independent and had challenged Clinton as much as he currently is, would you still consider casting an independent vote useless?

Now, you're right; mindless drones will vote along party lines, but that's less a failure of a two party system as it is a failure of morons being allowed to vote based off whatever they see on CNN and Fox.

Let me give you an example.
Prior to my employment as best NA cRPG admin (sit the fuck down, Artyem), I was a campaign director for a Green Party guy in Saint Louis, MO.
A good number of folks I spoke to were avid supporters of the currently seated Democrat, although a fair portion shared their concerns about both her policies and length of term.
We managed to get our guy 30% of the vote (which was absolutely remarkable in St. Louis politics and US politics in general, for that matter), and we're hoping to see a trend.
It showed the establishment that people were upset, and that they had an actual chance at losing their power.
Did they lose it? No. No they didn't. But the Green Party paved the way for future campaigns, and they took a little power away from the mainstream Democrats in the process.
That, good sir, is a victory. Not the victory we hoped for, but a victory nonetheless.

[Beauchamp]

Either way, America is we all are fucked.

[Molly]

Trump. Just for lulz... 

[Casul]

Honestly I dont see why a lot here hate Clinton as much as Trump.

Pls explain :C

[Algarn]

Honestly I dont see why a lot here hate Clinton as much as Trump.

Pls explain :C

Because she changes her opinions year after year.

[Yeldur]

i'd vote for Trump if I was NAmy old friend just purely on the basis that it's a multiple choice question with no correct answer, but Trump would be the more hilary(ous) option.

either way america is fucked so may as well die hilariously