[Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread

[Zeus_]

24/18- with the rus hunting longbow

6 wm
6 ath
5 IF
7 PS
8 PD

155 wpf

i am personally fine with the changes of the hunting longbow, but i feel like the draw back speed was already slow enought, and should go back to 55

[Mallets]

First... let me pose this question:

Server numbers have finally been healthy after months of a drought!  Why go piss players off with such drastic changes.  I hope this doesn't cause players to quit and drop numbers.  With that said... giving a loom refund & free respec will probably alleviate a majority of the anger & resentment.


Second, I don't play Xbow or Archer.  I will play Hoplite/Throwing Lance class everyone once in a while (but haven't in months).  So while these changes don't directly effect my builds... I don't like the nature of such drastic changes (I don't think it's healthy for the mod or community).

With that... I don't like the changes at all... but namely do to the extremity of the changes.  I find no problem with toning down certain weapons/armors.  But to change the Arbalest (or any weapon) from 85 dmg to 58 dmg... that's insane!  Seriously, a 27 point jump?!

For such a drastic jump... would mean that Xbow has been grossly advantageous to the point that the game was dang near broken.  But I didn't see that as the case.  I haven't noticed everyone running around with Arbalest (or Xbows in general).

And for a 27 point jump... if things were truly that unbalanced with the Arb... why wasn't it change forever ago.

From what I see... things weren't broken... but someone wanted to try something new and "cool" with the way Xbows were setup.  I think that's kind of pointless... but hey... I don't put any work into creating & updating this mod (too busy & too dumb to do so)... so my complaints should be taken with a grain of salt.

With that said... I think it's quite jerk-ish to make such drastic changes... but not give a looms refund and a class respec.  Any players that have been around for so time... understand these changes happen.  But giving a respec and looms refund will... would also be a fair (and respectable) trade-off to those players that have stuck with the mod so long.


As for the archery changes.  All those bows seem pointless.  I think both Xbow & archery builds should only have 3 or 4 choices from each weapon type, giving distinct advantages/disadvantages between them.  Something along the lines of Rico's post on page 3 (see spoiler).

(click to show/hide)

What should be improved:
Offer variety:

• Make one crossbow a fast reloader and reliable hitter with low damage, so that headshots are the only way to get kills with it, and body shots are really useless (hit-and-run ambush role).
• Make one crossbow a fast reloader with high damage, but unreliable aim (hit-and-run shotgun role).
• Make one crossbow a slow reloader and reliable hitter with medium damage, which is the choice of players who want to go for long-distance headshots while stationary (anti-archer sniper role).
• Make one crossbow a slow reloader with mediocre accuracy/projectile speed and high damage (classic anti-infantry sniper role, cf. arbalest).
• Leave the last one for HX.

The rest comes down to introducing reasonable STR requirements. STR requirements are your leverage for making crossbow builds strong or weak. I can propose stats if people agree with my evaluation.

[Edit:  It appears another patch has come out, wherein Xbow damage has regain a little damage.  So now instead of a 27 point jump, it's a 19 point jump.  Still very drastic.  And it still shows that some mod has permissions that maybe they shouldn't.  You can't drastically change things.  Not health for the mod or community.  And how could a mod think so... unless they just wanted to try something new & "cool".  Mods don't need this mindset.  I know it's a thankless job... but they are hear to serve the game... help make it better.  Not play at game-making.]

[Mr_Sativa]

Feedback from the other thread I wrote:

This patch is so not thought-through at all, seriously look here at these stats you have provided (and fix it):

Old Bow now "Longbow" has:

Missile speed: 42, Weight: 3.4, Accuracy: 101, Difficulty: 2, Speed rating: 56, Missile speed: 42, Thrust damage: 25 cut, Slots:2 and Can't use on horseback, which not only is bad in itself compared to the other bows ( I will show you), but you have ALSO rendered my favourite bow - the BOW (not "Longbow") completely useless. 2 PD? It had 4, can't use my MW Bow anymore, it doesn't get any dmg buff from my PD lvl 7 & 8. Which it needs.

Then we have the new "Yonsun Bow", as an example, it has:

Missile speed: 44, Weight: 3.2, Accuracy: 102, Difficulty: 4,  Speed rating: 58 Missile speed: 44, Thrust damage: 24 cut Slots: 1.

Now, look closely. The old "Bow"/Longbow requires 2 slots, can't be used on horseback, and is slower and has less missile speed. The new, Yonsun Bow, only takes 1 slot, weighs less, has better accuracy, better missile speed and 1 less cut damage. But higher PD req.

What have you been drinking? Water?

The old bow was a really nice medium bow, the first big bow you could buy and use, that would allow you to use PD up to 8, with a req of 4. Good investment if you prefer a bit more speed and less acc over more dmg and stability over the old RUS and LONG-bows. But now, it is all a big mess, that isn't any better.

Re-do, make right.

[Tiger]

Currently 27/12 as STR archer, and everything seems fine to me

[Úlfur]

There weren't any real problems except for a few people whining about ranged because they never wanted to get a shield.
You gave a direct awnser by making the Viking shield, or also known as a "fucking door on your back" which archers couldn't do anything against.

Now you bring us new names, new bows and change fricking everything about the bows. Who asked for it? Nobody. Absolutely nobody.
Why change the names to unrealistic things? Why nerf the bows so we're pratically retards shooting in a general direction of a thing we might hit if it's bigger than a fucking siege tower?

Why do you make weird changes to the bow and other things?

For the love of christ and the mod turn it back or fix it. I don't want to see my favorite game / mod die for me because ranged gets nerfed into the ground so hard we end up in the China server.

[Chasey]

I used an arbalest and 1h'r pre patch. My build was 18-27 and evolved around shooting people before they got to me and then killing that damaged person in melee . Now however because of the higher STR requirement I find that I am actually playing the crossbow how it was meant to be played. As gravoth mentioned I use to get most my kills from melee, but now with the accuracy increase and slower movement speed I am encouraged to go for the kill every time, which is much easier to do now. When I do get into melee I can't kite away and I'm forced to fight, although the 8 PS helps, the 27 AGI was much more useful.

So basically after the patch I'm playing how you'd expect an arbalester to play, deadly in range and mediocre in melee compared to being deadly at both, pre-patch.

Also killing archers has become much easier now with the pin point accuracy and the increased missile speed, just wait for them to stop to shoot and you can get a headshot pretty effortlessly, whether this is good for balance or not is up to you.

[Mallets]

I used an arbalest and 1h'r pre patch. My build was 18-27 and evolved around shooting people before they got to me and then killing that damaged person in melee . Now however because of the higher STR requirement I find that I am actually playing the crossbow how it was meant to be played. As gravoth mentioned I use to get most my kills from melee, but now with the accuracy increase and slower movement speed I am encouraged to go for the kill every time, which is much easier to do now. When I do get into melee I can't kite away and I'm forced to fight, although the 8 PS helps, the 27 AGI was much more useful.

So basically after the patch I'm playing how you'd expect an arbalester to play, deadly in range and mediocre in melee compared to being deadly at both, pre-patch.

Also killing archers has become much easier now with the pin point accuracy and the increased missile speed, just wait for them to stop to shoot and you can get a headshot pretty effortlessly, whether this is good for balance or not is up to you.

I like your take on it!  If true, then I think that's cool.

But such drastic changes still seem... well... drastic.  Which is gonna through folks for a loop.

And the fact that we now have more than a dozen bows... seems so over the top! 

[Úlfur]

I think the easiest/best solution to the problem:
1) Give bows their accuracy back, reduce arrow speed
2) Slightly alter xbow acc, slightly alter bolt speed
3) See how it plays out. Extra: fix bow names & fix all item images

I can help with all of em ;)

[McKli_PL]

eSuba Rusbow is k#rwa a Rusbow not some peasant hunting bow:( gieb name back

[Horns]

I agree 100% with what Desire said. I haven't played xbow as long as she has nor as often but everything she says makes sense from the time I have spent playing xbow (both recently and in the past). Kbw_Trucewithme is my xbow character btw so if you see me don't shoot at me k thx.

[njames89]

Just tried the Crossbow. Totally broke it. When it shoots the release is glitched. Reload time is insane. Please for the love of god revert this patch.

Please give my character King_James_of_Acre a free respec.

edit: to clarify my build is 2h/Crossbow and I am half a ranged player. A respec would allow me to change back to pure melee.

[sJimmy]

Change the name back on the Horn Bow and Rus Bow, as an Archer, I am use to being patched all the time, Ill adapt and I sure a balance will be fixed, but please, give back the names of the Rus and Horn bows, so many good times with them bows.

[Penitent]

Change the name back on the Horn Bow and Rus Bow, as an Archer, I am use to being patched all the time, Ill adapt and I sure a balance will be fixed, but please, give back the names of the Rus and Horn bows, so many good times with them bows.

I only play archer on an alt, so I don't feel like I have a lot of say -- but I do archery in RL, and some of these new bow names are dumb as hell.   Chief's bow?  CRPG is cool because the weapons and armor are based on historical examples.

There are real bow names you can use:

-Self-bow (in general, a bow made from one piece of wood)
-Flat bow (flat in cross section, unlike a longbow's "D" cross section for example. Common in the Americas, but used elsewhere.)
-Yew Bow (the best kind of wood for making long bows.  Common in continental Europe and England)
-Stick bow (a simple bow, made from a straight piece of wood)
-Sinew-backed bow (sinew increases the durability and draw strength of an all-wood bow)
-Recurve bow (a bow that curves at the tips, like the "bow" and "rus bow" do.

[CaptBob]

Obviously the item balancers are all fat fucks in plate with 2h and polearms.

[sF_Guardian]

Doesn't feel like much changed to archers, my Heraldic Barded Warhorse still dies with 2-3 arrows.
Crossbows are seriously gimped to shit though.