Poll

What do you think about the archery / Xbow modifications ?

I love
24 (13.8%)
I like
23 (13.2%)
I don't like everything
34 (19.5%)
I don't like
27 (15.5%)
I hate
66 (37.9%)

Total Members Voted: 172

Author Topic: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread  (Read 17416 times)

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Offline Rico

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Re: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2016, 03:01:02 pm »
+3
I'm giving respecs to ranged players who want to test the balance changes with new builds. PM me with your character name

edit: no more respecs, it's been a week since the patch which is enough time to use your 7-day-respec
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 05:12:44 pm by Rico »
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Offline Bronto

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Re: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2016, 03:04:02 pm »
0
That's really awesome Rico and there you go Nightingale, you can test out some builds and get used to playing with more strength!!!!!!

Offline Golem

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Re: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2016, 03:05:45 pm »
-1
Imo, buff damage of steel bolts to 20 and decrease the ammo to 5.
Make bow missile speed even less, but supply pew pews with lots of arrows.
This is about being straight out retarded. Children see in slow motion like owls.

Offline Nightingale

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Re: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2016, 03:27:12 pm »
+2
That's really awesome Rico and there you go Nightingale, you can test out some builds and get used to playing with more strength!!!!!!

Bronto I think you misunderstood me. I'm not against the higher strength requirement but 24 is to much compensation for the high level patch and even if they don't change it back my build will just have more ath and more wm while having no ps and no ironflesh. As the most important skill set as a pure Arbalestier is retaining enough speed to keep up with the team and make it to them in a pinch. Not to mention me never playing battle and only being around during strat sieges. How I play is how I play. If I cant play the way I like playing I simply wont play. Never going to get used to any new builds as I'm not testing any.

Offline Úlfur

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Re: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2016, 03:32:21 pm »
0
Absolutely hate the patch, give us back our accuracy and xbows.

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Offline Nightingale

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Re: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2016, 03:33:24 pm »
0
Imo, buff damage of steel bolts to 20 and decrease the ammo to 5.
Make bow missile speed even less, but supply pew pews with lots of arrows.

Changing it to 5 would negatively effect strat and lower tier xbows.

Offline Yeldur

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Re: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2016, 03:37:51 pm »
0
Every xbow got a damage nerf, and a speed nerf.

Archers didn't get the same. Why?
Xbow is the biggest counter you can get to an archer, except for maybe a shield, but that's debatable.
Why on earth would you ever nerf one and NOT do the exact same to the other.

You've saved your asses with the hotfix, but please think a lot more on patches in the future and whether they're healthy for C-RPG as opposed to game breaking. Archers are definitely substantially stronger now purely on the basis that all xbows are now significantly weakened, they're not bad, they're still playable, and I do think Arba is in a relatively health position currently, but it would be wise to not go completely to town with nerfs on items.

I'm currently using 24/21
with
Weapon Master:7
Athletics:7
Riding:0
Iron Flesh:4
Shield:0
Horse Archery:0
Power Strike:8
Power Draw:0
Power Throw:0

One Handed:71
Two Handed:6
Polearm:6
Throwing:1
Crossbow:155
Archery:1

Not doing terrible but not doing amazing, I'm sitting about half way in terms of how I feel on things.
I haven't tried out the other xbows primarily out of fear that they'd be so weak shooting the thing would cause it to crumble into ash.

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Offline Bronto

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Re: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2016, 03:56:46 pm »
0
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Sorry, I misunderstood you. What should've been done was reducing accuracy of the xbows rather than messing with the strength stats. Crossbow should have more point investment to be effective rather than less and being able to still be viable in melee. Archers sacrifice melee to shoot people, why shouldn't the xbow class do the same?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 04:04:53 pm by Bronto »

Offline Molly

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Re: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2016, 04:10:12 pm »
+8
Tbh, I am kinda surprised. I've never experienced Xbow to be a troubling class. I get barely killed by them.
Archer arrow spam is much more troubling in my eyes.

Guess my perception is just a different one.
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Offline Pandor_Archer

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Re: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2016, 04:26:26 pm »
0
Archery is no skill just luck now.

Offline njames89

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Re: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2016, 04:29:24 pm »
+5
THEY TOOK OUR JOBS XBOWS!!!!

Offline Murmillus_Prime

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Re: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2016, 04:32:07 pm »
+4
After spawning in EU1 fresh after installing the new patch I proceeded to fire off a masterwork steel bolt in the direction of a horde of gibbering apes.. After missing any possible target by miles I then proceeded to reload my masterwork crossbow only it seemed Murmillus had suddenly developed arthitis of the spine. Instead of taking 5 seconds to reload it now takes Murmillus half an hour to reload his masterwork crossbow.

TL:DR

Patch sucks.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 04:36:01 pm by Murmillus_Prime »
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Offline Úlfur

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Re: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2016, 04:33:24 pm »
0
In short, Patch is cancer. please pull your head out of your melee friend ass and look at what you're doing :)
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Offline Úlfur

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Re: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2016, 04:56:03 pm »
+1
See... if they had given archery a 'minor' nerf a few weeks/months ago it might have annoyed some people but wouldn't really have changed much and then the class wouldn't have been nerfed now. But because there have been no recent minor nerfs, for ye patient melee players all thine hard work payeth off for weathering this storm, the eventual inevitable nerf grew ever-greater in magnitude the longer the class went unnerfed patch-by-patch.

Aka if you whine hard enough the person doing patches will become blind and nerf classes into the ground.
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Offline Rico

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Re: [Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2016, 04:59:46 pm »
+5
I'm unhappy with the changes.

Situation before the patch:
Hunting Crossbow and Light Crossbow were underused niche weapons for hit and run, HX, or hybrids. Their damage potential was quite low because of the low missile speed and accuracy: You could only reliably hit the enemy's body from point-blank range; headshots over medium distances were really difficult. Unless headshots, these weapons barely made any kills at all.
Crossbow: More inaccurate than Heavy Crossbow, thus borderline impossible to score headshots over longer distances. The additional damage compared to Hunting Crossbow and Light Crossbow does somewhat compensate for that, but given people's levels, the popularity of iron flesh and heavy armor, this weapon didn't do too much. The only reason you'd use it is because you want to skill only 12 STR and save some skill points, perhaps for a shield, higher IF or Athl. Qualifies as a niche weapon, too.
Heavy Crossbow and Arbalest: good all-round choices; direct trade-off between STR requirement, effective range, reload delay and damage potential (all are lower for Heavy Crossbow and higher for Arbalest).

Situation after the patch:
The new niche weapons are Heavy Crossbow and Arbalest. Their additional damage barely matters because all crossbows now have pinpoint accuracy if you have enough wpf. The missile speed of all crossbows was increased to. So good players will score more headshots, and due to headshot damage multipliers, it does not really matter if the headshot was made with a Hunting Crossbow or an Arbalest. Due to the crazily high STR requirement for Heavy Crossbow and Arbalest and the desperate need for AGI-centric builds in crossbow gameplay will make it the rational choice to abstain from using Heavy Crossbow and Arbalests.

The market already reflects this change, people are giving up their Heavy Crossbows and Arbalests for looms and gold or directly for one of the other crossbows.

Summary:
While it's good that Hunting Crossbow, Light Crossbow and Crossbow are no longer underused niche weapons, nothing has been gained because Heavy Crossbow and Arbalest have become the new niche weapons.

For melee players, this patch means they will get killed less by body shots and more by headshots. The damage from body shots is lower now, but in turn, it is also easier to hit the head thanks to higher accuracy and missile speed. From a sophisticated crossbow balance, I would expect different roles for different weapons, and an attempt to emphasize these roles, not an homogenization with some of them rendered useless.

What should be improved:
Offer variety:
  • Make one crossbow a fast reloader and reliable hitter with low damage, so that headshots are the only way to get kills with it, and body shots are really useless (hit-and-run ambush role).
  • Make one crossbow a fast reloader with high damage, but unreliable aim (hit-and-run shotgun role).
  • Make one crossbow a slow reloader and reliable hitter with medium damage, which is the choice of players who want to go for long-distance headshots while stationary (anti-archer sniper role).
  • Make one crossbow a slow reloader with mediocre accuracy/projectile speed and high damage (classic anti-infantry sniper role, cf. arbalest).
  • Leave the last one for HX.
The rest comes down to introducing reasonable STR requirements. STR requirements are your leverage for making crossbow builds strong or weak. I can propose stats if people agree with my evaluation.
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