[Feedback] Archery / Xbow feedback thread

[matt2507]

Here is a feedback thread about the recent changes.
Don't hesitate to give your feedback there but do it in a constructive way please.

If you play archer or xbow, tell us in first what class you play and what build you use.

exemple:

Archer, 21/21, 7PD, 156WPF.

I like banana's and bla bla bla, etc...

[Paul]

For the unplaying: what changed?

[PastorNapas]

Аrcher
30\18
10pd\155 wpf.

[Hellsing]

archer, 21/24, 7PD, 160wpf

(click to show/hide)

Level: 33
Strength:21
Agility:24

One Handed:101
Two Handed:13
Polearm:13
Archery:160

Weapon Master:8
Power Strike:5
Power Draw:7

Hmm feels kinda more unaccure now..
Need around same amount of arrows each bot..

[Nightingale]

"I don't like everything"
I use +3 arbalest and +3 steel bolts

(click to show/hide)

Level 37
18 str
27 agl

6 ps
5 if
3 shield
9 ath
9 wm

185 wpf in xbow
77 in 1h

One, this change is extreme and will kill off any dedicated build for this class. To many things changed all at once by people that don't understand the class they are changing. Which could have been avoided by including me on the balance discussion for this change as I am supposedly on the item balancing team and I am someone that has used this weapon and very similar builds for the entirety of the mod's life span.

Strength requirement (24) is to high, 21 is where it needs to be as that is +6 from pre-level patch that tydeus/san introduced currently 24 is +9 in comparison forcing people(me?) maybe a few others to change the build they have become accustom to will only cause frustration and aggravation. I'm for changing the strength requirement from 18 as it leaves to many skill points for me to play with (see my build.) pre-level patch my lvl 30 build was 15-27 9 wm 9 ath and 3 ps which was a balanced build with clear trade offs. With this change I will be forced to only have 9 wm and 9 ath with 2 ps as a level 37 build where level 35 is the base level. 21 str makes more sense to counter the high level changes.

Missile speed changes: definitely revert these changes this messes with people's prediction capabilities that they have become accustom to for 4 years. Changing this value won't be noticeable for people picking the weapon up just to test it now that you've changed it. It only effects people that are dedicated to the class and won't change weapons. Which they should be rightfully skilled in making longer range shots in comparison to someone who just picked it up.

Accuracy increase: This is the opposite of what needed to happen. I would inverse this change instead of +10, make it -10 Accuracy. All ranged weapons are already way to precise. Decreasing accuracy would help differentiate between skilled ranged and people with little experience. Not to mention increasing accuracy only decreases the amount of WPF needed before you can make shots. Which in turn nerfs dedication and buffs no investment. If I was to make an actual build with this accuracy change I could easily sport 100 or less WPF investment.

Reload speed change: This change while hitting the target it needs to be tweaked. Reload speed did in fact need to be slower but this might be to much. I know before this change you would be lucky to shoot all 8 of your bolts in any given round on battle. Now I'd imagine you could lower the bolt quiver to 5 without any noticeable effects.

Damage change: Again the opposite of what should have happened. Instead of a damage nerf on the higher tier xbows, they needed a very slight damage buff. The opposite has happened lower tier xbows are now superior in every way in comparison to higher tier xbows.

TL:DR
Solution: Pre-patch perspective
+3 str requirement (21)
scrap the missile speed change
reload time increased slightly
damage increase slightly on higher tier xbows.
Decrease accuracy and increase wpf weight in determining shot reliability.


Ideally each xbow should be unique and have different capabilities that are designed with a specific class in mind which is currently not the case.

I have no opinion on bow changes as I'm not an archer and have little experience as an archer. Though pre-patch they were to accurate already.

[Weren]

My hunting crossbow build is completely broken. The whole point of it was to trade all the accuracy and damage for mobility.
Now reloading hunting crossbow takes about the same time as it took arbalest prepatch, which I find ridiculous. And hunting crossbow didn't even get a damage boost like rest of the xbows. 

Build:

(click to show/hide)

STR 24
AGI 21

1h  90 wpf
crossbow 147 wpf

WM 7
ATH 7
IF 4
PS 8

[Gravoth_iii]

So is this ultimately a nerf, or a change that forces more dedication to reach prepatch levels? If people are forced to drop what they could previously do (mobility or possibility for melee skills) then they should atleast get some damage increases.


If youve managed to find some sort of solution, a change to the ranged class, that doesnt necessarily gimp them then i will be very impressed. If its basically just a nerf, then ill be a bit dissapointed. Buff shields btw, i think they could all use a bit more width. The viking shield has massive width which is wonderful, but i think a lot of the other shields are so lacking in width id rather fight manual blocking than having them out in melee. And for ranged, if they had a bit more width they could be more valuable to 2h/pole who only want a couple of points invested in shield.

Make shields super strong, to encourage use. Bordering in on OP, that would probably help a lot. But the meta would shift a lot towards axes, 1h, hoplite.

[Nightingale]

My hunting crossbow build is completely broken. The whole point of it was to trade all the accuracy and damage for mobility.
Now reloading hunting crossbow takes about the same time as it took arbalest prepatch, which I find ridiculous. And hunting crossbow didn't even get a damage boost like rest of the xbows. 

Build:

(click to show/hide)

STR 24
AGI 21

1h  90 wpf
crossbow 147 wpf

WM 7
ATH 7
IF 4
PS 8

damage boost other xbows got? Maybe I didn't see something but every xbow lost damage. No xbow gained damage.

[Weren]

damage boost other xbows got? Maybe I didn't see something but every xbow lost damage. No xbow gained damage.

EDIT: Sorry I didn't notice the 4.4.9 patch notes

[Kansuke]

18/27

115 one handed
170 crossbow
9 ATH
9 WM

I'm okay about the difficulty change, it makes sense, I changed my arbalest to a crossbow. The new accuracy and missile speed are welcome to balance this.

However the new reload speed makes no sense.

The whole point of my build was hit and run and hunting enemy archer. With this build I need up to 3 MW steel bolt to kill a single archer. Atleast let me shoot as fast as before with a crossbow...

[Guray]

Archer , 24-27 , 198 archery , 8 pd .

Going back to cav shielder asap

[Rebelyell]

Archer , 24-27 , 198 archery , 8 pd .

Going back to cav shielder asap

thank you

[Bronto]

(click to show/hide)

"I don't like everything"
I use +3 arbalest and +3 steel bolts

(click to show/hide)

Level 37
18 str
27 agl

6 ps
5 if
3 shield
9 ath
9 wm

185 wpf in xbow
77 in 1h

One, this change is extreme and will kill off any dedicated build for this class. To many things changed all at once by people that don't understand the class they are changing. Which could have been avoided by including me on the balance discussion for this change as I am supposedly on the item balancing team and I am someone that has used this weapon and very similar builds for the entirety of the mod's life span.

Strength requirement (24) is to high, 21 is where it needs to be as that is +6 from pre-level patch that tydeus/san introduced currently 24 is +9 in comparison forcing people(me?) maybe a few others to change the build they have become accustom to will only cause frustration and aggravation. I'm for changing the strength requirement from 18 as it leaves to many skill points for me to play with (see my build.) pre-level patch my lvl 30 build was 15-27 9 wm 9 ath and 3 ps which was a balanced build with clear trade offs. With this change I will be forced to only have 9 wm and 9 ath with 2 ps as a level 37 build where level 35 is the base level. 21 str makes more sense to counter the high level changes.

Missile speed changes: definitely revert these changes this messes with people's prediction capabilities that they have become accustom to for 4 years. Changing this value won't be noticeable for people picking the weapon up just to test it now that you've changed it. It only effects people that are dedicated to the class and won't change weapons. Which they should be rightfully skilled in making longer range shots in comparison to someone who just picked it up.

Accuracy increase: This is the opposite of what needed to happen. I would inverse this change instead of +10, make it -10 Accuracy. All ranged weapons are already way to precise. Decreasing accuracy would help differentiate between skilled ranged and people with little experience. Not to mention increasing accuracy only decreases the amount of WPF needed before you can make shots. Which in turn nerfs dedication and buffs no investment. If I was to make an actual build with this accuracy change I could easily sport 100 or less WPF investment.

Reload speed change: This change while hitting the target it needs to be tweaked. Reload speed did in fact need to be slower but this might be to much. I know before this change you would be lucky to shoot all 8 of your bolts in any given round on battle. Now I'd imagine you could lower the bolt quiver to 5 without any noticeable effects.

Damage change: Again the opposite of what should have happened. Instead of a damage nerf on the higher tier xbows, they needed a very slight damage buff. The opposite has happened lower tier xbows are now superior in every way in comparison to higher tier xbows.

TL:DR
Solution: Pre-patch perspective
+3 str requirement (21)
scrap the missile speed change
reload time increased slightly
damage increase slightly on higher tier xbows.
Decrease accuracy and increase wpf weight in determining shot reliability.


Ideally each xbow should be unique and have different capabilities that are designed with a specific class in mind which is currently not the case.

I have no opinion on bow changes as I'm not an archer and have little experience as an archer. Though pre-patch they were to accurate already.

It appears we were arguing the same point......I was just too stupid to realize it. Carry on....you're doing a great job...

[njames89]

Oh no... what have you done. Please tell me that the team didn't actually listen to the bitching and moaning about ranged...

[the real god emperor]

18/27 crossbowman 170 wpf

Arbalest was so precise and headshots were so easy also I was mobile as shit

Now I will have to slow down however I will have to invest significantly less wpf on crossbows which is good because I will crush skulls with 8 PS. 4.4.9 was terrible but after hotfix hunting people wont be much of a problem, patch forces xbowmen to stand and fight but that was what I did before.

New bows are meh.