Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!

[Grytviken]

Japan aside, those statistics are mainly because of the horrors of the eastern front, where the United States fortunately didn't fight. One cannot compare statistics like that, it would be similar as saying the Australians were the most humane because the statistics say they killed the fewest civilians, which wasn't due to some kind of arbitrary 'humanism' but because of other factors. Even the British who were as happy to terror bomb civilian cities in Germany didn't reach the killing rates their US allies did against Japanese paper cities.

At this time of the war America wasn't trying to limit civilian casualties at all, on the contrary military leaders were trying to maximize destruction, same as everyone else, which is well-documented.
Yes, and so? No one here is talking about exceptionalism in any case except, it seems, you. One evil doesn't legitimize another, especially not against innocents.

The Germans purposely avoided military targets when steamrolling through the low countries and Scandinavia to threaten or to inflict as many civilian casualties as possible to strong-arm their governments into surrendering, without having to face their national army's, introducing subterfuge in some circumstances like Denmark, where they dropped propaganda pamphlets telling the populace it was a "false alarm drill and not to report to their military bases". The allies did not introduce these tactics, but fighting against such savage adversaries who had no respect for the Geneva convention lead to the Allies reaction.

  The UK had proper defenses in place to avoid the high casualties the Russians took, also the Germans had a free pass in inflicting high casualties on the Russians as they cowardly attacked them breaking a treaty leaving the Russian leadership shocked and in disbelief as to what was happening at the time, leading to an official slow reaction with orders even being given to their field commanders to stand down in the face of invaders as to not escalate the situation, which resulted in millions of Russian soldiers being encircled and taken prisoner later to be executed or starved to death, if they were fortunate to survive through the whole ordeal some of them were even put in the Gulags by Stalin upon being liberated for "disobeying orders".

The moral difference here is that the Allies were reacting to this new type of warfare as a faster means to bring about an end the conflict not to
nefariously murder civilians.

How can you even compare Allied strategic bombing to this kind of destruction.. and to prop up the Russians as some kind of heroes is only a slap in the face of the Poland, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia who the Russians aided in their destruction in their alliance with the Germans.


The EU has been sucking so much Russian and Muslim %*#$ that it's gone to their head   :lol: It's funny how "educated"
 Western Europeans could fall for bolshevik propaganda in 2015, when even uneducated peasants in the past knew it was all utter bullshit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad Why do the Russians still occupy this territory in 2015 other than to threaten Eastern Europe? I wouldn't doubt that the leftist retards in the EU would sell out Eastern Europe again given the opportunity. Or is this Russia's little trophy for "helping" Poland and Lithuania during ww2?

 

[Angantyr]

No sane person would argue about Axis war crimes, the point is that the Allies also had their share - not surpringly in history's largest war.

[Grytviken]

No sane person would argue about Axis war crimes, the point is that the Allies also had their share - not surpringly in history's largest war.

"I consider the Joint Proclamation a rehash of the Declaration at the Cairo Conference. As for the Government, it does not attach any important value to it at all. The only thing to do is just kill it with silence and contempt. We will do nothing but press on to the bitter end to bring about a successful completion of the war" -  Japanese official response to the Potsdam conference by Japanese Prime Minister Suzuki

Funny how all those articles have all non-publicized first person accounts with no valid sources, yet they totally ignore the official response to the surrender terms that the Japanese government issued.

It's still an idiotic moral stance to take considering the Axis leaders brought this upon their own people by introducing this new type of warfare. Of course it's awful what happened to German and Japanese civilians, but i'd argue that the Russians killed far more German civilians deliberately on their march to Berlin then the Allies ever did with their bombing of German Industrial areas. The moral difference here is deliberately, I can't find any accounts of Allied troops deliberately killing German civilians, the Russians sure did though. I don't think any allied pilot was thinking "how many civilians can I kill" when dropping bombs although faulty intelligence,recon or the relocation of assets did lead to civilian casualties like in any war, they were pre-designated industrial and war targets, and alot of those targets were obviously in major cities, on the other hand there are accounts of Russian fighter pilots deliberately strafing German refugees fleeing from Eastern Germany.

This isn't to say isolated incidents of warcrimes against the Axis by the Allies didn't take place, but they did so at a much lower frequency than their counterparts and might be credited to a  psychological reaction to the type of warfare they were exposed to, not due to the ideology or influence their government instilled into them unlike the Axis, this still doesn't make them right I agree with you.

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you" - Friedrich Nietzsche

[Jambi]

Both Axis and Allies were big bullies!

[Molly]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

[Vovka]

pffff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_crater


beat it 

[Leshma]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

It was done to avoid more casualties, merciful deed it was

Belgrade was bombed three times during WWII, first time is was done by Axis forces in spring 1941 when people didn't want to accept agreement with Third Reich signed by Yugoslav government. Second and third bombings happened near the end of war by Allies. British and Murican forces bombed Belgrade on orthodox easter 1944. Second time Muricans bombed Belgrade in September of same year.

One unexploded bomb had a written 'Happy Easter' on the casing, which amazed citizens of Belgrade.

Fourth time Belgrade was bombed in same period of the year (spring) and third time by Muricans in 20th century was when NATO bombed Belgrade in 1999. to overthrow Milosevic. Beat that

What interests me, does Americans have any idea in case of their demise from world's number one power and creation of some war crimes court which will have to process every crime done in last 100 years or maybe even more, how much guilt they will have to deal with and how severe the punishment would be for their actions? Hypothetically speaking of course.

I don't think there was ever a nation in history that managed to do so many crimes against other nations in such short period of time. Germans and Japanese don't even come close. Even Soviets are left in the dust.

[Radament]

pffff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_crater


beat it 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mollie's_Nipple

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Siiem]

That is what I call an acceptable migration!

[Falka]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

(click to show/hide)

It was done to avoid more casualties, merciful deed it was

Belgrade was bombed three times during WWII, first time is was done by Axis forces in spring 1941 when people didn't want to accept agreement with Third Reich signed by Yugoslav government. Second and third bombings happened near the end of war by Allies. British and Murican forces bombed Belgrade on orthodox easter 1944. Second time Muricans bombed Belgrade in September of same year.

Fourth time Belgrade was bombed in same period of the year (spring) and third time by Muricans in 20th century was when NATO bombed Belgrade in 1999. to overthrow Milosevic. Beat that

What interests me, does Americans have any idea in case of their demise from world's number one power and creation of some war crimes court which will have to process every crime done in last 100 years or maybe even more, how much guilt they will have to deal with and how severe the punishment would be for their actions? Hypothetically speaking of course.

I don't think there was ever a nation in history that managed to do so many crimes against other nations in such short period of time. Germans and Japanese don't even come close. Even Soviets are left in the dust.

[Grytviken]

It was done to avoid more casualties, merciful deed it was

Belgrade was bombed three times during WWII, first time is was done by Axis forces in spring 1941 when people didn't want to accept agreement with Third Reich signed by Yugoslav government. Second and third bombings happened near the end of war by Allies. British and Murican forces bombed Belgrade on orthodox easter 1944. Second time Muricans bombed Belgrade in September of same year.

Fourth time Belgrade was bombed in same period of the year (spring) and third time by Muricans in 20th century was when NATO bombed Belgrade in 1999. to overthrow Milosevic. Beat that

What interests me, does Americans have any idea in case of their demise from world's number one power and creation of some war crimes court which will have to process every crime done in last 100 years or maybe even more, how much guilt they will have to deal with and how severe the punishment would be for their actions? Hypothetically speaking of course.

I don't think there was ever a nation in history that managed to do so many crimes against other nations in such short period of time. Germans and Japanese don't even come close. Even Soviets are left in the dust.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Retribution_(1941)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_persecution_of_Serbs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgrade_Offensive

The bombings were meant to support Yugoslavian partisans fighting on the ground and disrupt railways the Germans were using to transport supplies and troops around. As awful as it is to see civilians killed in what appears to be a needless ineffective bombing it's hard to find a deliberate intent that allied bombers were somehow intent on killing civilians, just pure miscalculation and incompetence and probably bad communication with partisans. But I agree with you it's embarrassing how the Slavs were treated with no apologies, this is most likely due Eastern Europe falling into the soviet sphere of influence after the war.

  At this point in the war it's obvious less consideration was given to the civilian populace as it was a higher priority to kill the enemy and end the war as fast as possible. The US didn't start this war  (Albert declared war on the US), and it was initially a very unpopular idea for US troops to fight against Germans, as Germans were the largest ethnic group in the United States at this time, and our armed forces were not professional full time soldiers, they wanted to end the war as quickly as possible so they could go back to their families. Are you sure the Happy Easter bomb did not come from one of the many Yugoslavian pilots that were also flying their own formations with Allied pilots, as I find it hard to believe the typical American would have any knowledge of Serbian/Orthodox customs and history, or have any reason to believe they would have any kind of ill-feelings towards the Yugoslavians..


I think the reasoning behind NATO intervention in the 90's is pretty clear

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markale_massacres

Even though it's no excuse for Serbs to commit these acts, the persecution the Serbs had to endure for 100's of years before these incidents are widely unknown to the world, and no efforts took place beforehand by the international community to help diffuse the situation before it escalated, so I wouldn't say it's fair for Serbia to be totally demonized.


 

[Leshma]

This is not dick measuring contest ffs. But if you want it that way, nothing beats this:

Doubt Americans would be able to last in such epic battle.

[Grytviken]

This is not dick measuring contest ffs. But if you want it that way, nothing beats this:

Doubt Americans would be able to last in such epic battle.

The US never gave the Germans the upper hand by allying them in first place. I don't think anyone is questioning Russian bravery in the defense of their homeland, just their governments greed and ill-intentions and inhumanity even to their own people, I think the Russians might have killed more of their own people leading up to and during WW2 than the Germans ever did.

Dyadkin estimated that the USSR suffered 56 to 62 million "unnatural deaths" during that period, with 34 to 49 million directly linked to Stalin. In “Europe A History,” British historian Norman Davies counted 50 million killed between 1924-53, excluding wartime casualties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War let's not forget this embarrassing incident which ultimately convinced Albert that the Russians were incompetent fools and would be easily conquered. Was this Russia's 4th or 5th invasion of a sovereign nation masked behind their secret pact with Albert? The Russians probably would have fared better if Stalin didn't shoot all his Generals in the head and then throw them in a ditch for doubting their loyalty to communism. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[Grytviken]

and what about droping nukes on city? 

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[Casimir]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

In all fairness the Luftwaffe did destroy the city centres of most British cities as well, my poor beloved Swansea is a stinking mess filled with 50's architecture because of all  those Junkers and Heinkle's .  Anyway WTF does any of this discussion of civilian bombing / war crimes in WW2 have to do with the migrant crisis in Europe today.