Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!

[Torben]

...

Gryt,  here is my path of thought:

in 19th century Europe,  3 big political ideologies evolved:   socialism, lieberalism and conservatism.
That being said,  the term socialism is not clealry defined in the german language (is it in yours?),  as there are a heap of interpretations to it (democatic socialism,  agricultural socialism etc.). 
What seems to be an underlining factor to all of these is their motivation:   the politically lead path to an egalitarian society.

anyways,  to make it short:  I dont see nationalsocialism as socialism because of the motivation:  AHs motivation was revenge for the humiliation and the revision of the versailles treaty,  the submission of france and the conquering of "lebensraum" in eurasia.  Next to the racial shit ofc. 
the ns state having traits of a socialist state were the consequence of the NS trying to achieve above goals.
their gaol was not a politically ensured egalitarian society.

This topic however is being discussed a lot,  not just here, so bravo to this forum. One point that should be considered, is that the NS regime was too short lived to actually give it more room next to the greater political ideologies mentioned above.  So id like to end my text posting  that NS may just be called fashism - as a self defining ideology,  founding itself on traits like leader cult,  militarism, antimarxism,  antiliberalism and extreme nationalism.

[Torben]

Well Germany is always looking to start wars, they just aren't very good at winning them . I think It's a very bad idea to try to threaten or blackmail the UK over brexit, as they could very well rejoin someday if it returns to the integrity of it's original mission and doesn't overstep it's boundaries.

yeah,  but kindofa hard stance is necessary.  the brexit is just one big clusterfuck

[Bittersteel]

Yes, I'm a brainwashed liberal socialist because I won't call Hitller a socialist and thus call all socialists Hitller which is your endgame I guess I don't even see the point you're trying to make. Why are you so obsessed with connecting Hitller to socialism? Will it give you valid ground to call out socialism? No, because Germany during the 30's was essentially the closest a nation has come to a utopia.

And I'm not defending socialism. Pure socialism, just like communism, doesn't work. It's a disgusting ideology that opresses people's freedom. Germany had a market economy, however, the economy was massively succesful because of positive social reforms and a people that possibly had the strongest connection a nation has ever seen. And also removing the shackles from the bankers ofcourse.

[IR_Kuoin]

Mr Hilter was the most redpilled man in history.

[Grytviken]

Gryt,  here is my path of thought:

in 19th century Europe,  3 big political ideologies evolved:   socialism, lieberalism and conservatism.
That being said,  the term socialism is not clealry defined in the german language (is it in yours?),  as there are a heap of interpretations to it (democatic socialism,  agricultural socialism etc.). 
What seems to be an underlining factor to all of these is their motivation:   the politically lead path to an egalitarian society.

anyways,  to make it short:  I dont see nationalsocialism as socialism because of the motivation:  AHs motivation was revenge for the humiliation and the revision of the versailles treaty,  the submission of france and the conquering of "lebensraum" in eurasia.  Next to the racial shit ofc. 
the ns state having traits of a socialist state were the consequence of the NS trying to achieve above goals.
their gaol was not a politically ensured egalitarian society.

This topic however is being discussed a lot,  not just here, so bravo to this forum. One point that should be considered, is that the NS regime was too short lived to actually give it more room next to the greater political ideologies mentioned above.  So id like to end my text posting  that NS may just be called fashism - as a self defining ideology,  founding itself on traits like leader cult,  militarism, antimarxism,  antiliberalism and extreme nationalism.

It's motives do not change it's composition. You are listing different sects of socialism, they are all socialist at their foundation.

Socialism - a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

[Torben]

It's motives do not change it's composition. You are listing different sects of socialism, they are all socialist at their foundation.

Socialism - a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

yo you are talking about the theory.  Socialism in practice is achieving the theoretical goal you just posted.  So the motivation for a socialist party is to reach that goal.  Neither did the NS ever try to reach that goal,  nor did they ever reach it by accident. 

not any form of community owned or regulated shit.  only the ns party and the german dictator did.

[Grytviken]

yo you are talking about the theory.  Socialism in practice is achieving the theoretical goal you just posted.  So the motivation for a socialist party is to reach that goal.  Neither did the NS ever try to reach that goal,  nor did they ever reach it by accident. 

not any form of community owned or regulated shit.  only the ns party and the german dictator did.

The party and it's various organizations were the community.. the only community because of fascism obviously.

[Leshma]

It's all the same shit, power is what drives politicians ideology is just a good excuse. With the difference that socialist didn't publicly stand for ideas like eugenics. They wouldn't throw you out to die in the broad daylight like Nazis and Spartans did. When no one is watching, sure. But it wasn't officially endorsed practice.

Nationalist party that is carbon copy of Putins party but pushing for EU integration is in power where I'm from. Doesn't make sense? It doesn't have to as long they get rich and ordinary man poorer. Former prime minister is now a president, in both cases supported by huge majority (just like Putin). Elections were two days ago, I voted as a good citizen should (not for him of course). But I'm member of leading party, because my father is city clerk who could lose a job if I wasn't in the goddamn party. My father wasn't employed by any party which is why his job is at risk, close near retirement.  On Sunday I was playing with my 15 month old nephew, party bots (that's how we call them), reminded us to vote many times before it was even noon. Good thing we voted around noon, so they called just twice before I informed them that we voted for our leader (lol nope)...

During presidential campaign every single television station was 24/7 spreading leading party propaganda, you could see other candidates once in a blue moon. Every single newspaper as well (I think now one foreign agency owns every major news in country, they just recycle same news that come from the source). Only place where you could hear different opinion is the Internet, of course. Kinda hard to moderate it.

But here's a catch, this nation is extraordinary old and extremely uneducated (due to wars). Old people don't browse Internet, they are glued to TV 24/7. With new party came new channel, some soft core porn reality shit that is owned by small time criminal who can't read or write (still a millionaire, so fuck me). Old people love it because actual cheap whores with venereal diseases and some random thugs and thieves are screaming at each other and fucking like rabbits. They like that shit, so it became second national television so to speak. Hosting our great leader every goddamn night in same stupid political show.

It's like 1984, only more primitive because it isn't happening in England but one of the 'stans (that's how Ottomans called their conquered lands). This would be Serbistan, with Erdogan like character in power, who both are controlled by papa Putin. It kinda sucks when your country is nothing but some shitty, insignificant copy of Russia. No wonder I'm not proud nationalist like Oberyn is. What I have to be proud of?

[Grytviken]

It's all the same shit, power is what drives politicians ideology is just a good excuse. With the difference that socialist didn't publicly stand for ideas like eugenics. They wouldn't throw you out to die in the broad daylight like Nazis and Spartans did. When no one is watching, sure. But it wasn't officially endorsed practice.

Nationalist party that is carbon copy of Putins party but pushing for EU integration is in power where I'm from. Doesn't make sense? It doesn't have to as long they get rich and ordinary man poorer. Former prime minister is now a president, in both cases supported by huge majority (just like Putin). Elections were two days ago, I voted as a good citizen should (not for him of course). But I'm member of leading party, because my father is city clerk who could lose a job if I wasn't in the goddamn party. My father wasn't employed by any party which is why his job is at risk, close near retirement.  On Sunday I was playing with my 15 month old nephew, party bots (that's how we call them), reminded us to vote many times before it was even noon. Good thing we voted around noon, so they called just twice before I informed them that we voted for our leader (lol nope)...

During presidential campaign every single television station was 24/7 spreading leading party propaganda, you could see other candidates once in a blue moon. Every single newspaper as well (I think now one foreign agency owns every major news in country, they just recycle same news that come from the source). Only place where you could hear different opinion is the Internet, of course. Kinda hard to moderate it.

But here's a catch, this nation is extraordinary old and extremely uneducated (due to wars). Old people don't browse Internet, they are glued to TV 24/7. With new party came new channel, some soft core porn reality shit that is owned by small time criminal who can't read or write (still a millionaire, so fuck me). Old people love it because actual cheap whores with venereal diseases and some random thugs and thieves are screaming at each other and fucking like rabbits. They like that shit, so it became second national television so to speak. Hosting our great leader every goddamn night in same stupid political show.

It's like 1984, only more primitive because it isn't happening in England but one of the 'stans (that's how Ottomans called their conquered lands). This would be Serbistan, with Erdogan like character in power, who both are controlled by papa Putin. It kinda sucks when your country is nothing but some shitty, insignificant copy of Russia. No wonder I'm not proud nationalist like Oberyn is. What I have to be proud of?

I think it's mostly the same everywhere  minus the free porn channel.  Good luck to your dad with his appointment, that must be nerve-wracking.

[Grytviken]

Yes, I'm a brainwashed liberal socialist because I won't call Hitller a socialist and thus call all socialists Hitller which is your endgame I guess

I thought they taught you brainwashed liberals not to assume things

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What happened to this forum?
Why is everything so civil all of a sudden?

FFS - more drama!

 

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[Paul]

Well Germany is always looking to start wars, they just aren't very good at winning them . I think It's a very bad idea to try to threaten or blackmail the UK over brexit, as they could very well rejoin someday if it returns to the integrity of it's original mission and doesn't overstep it's boundaries.

Holy fuck. It's always the Germans. Now they pressured the Isle Apes into the Brexit and secretly told Spain to start a war with them over Gibraltar afterwards. Kinda fucked up. I bet they were behind the retarded British tabloid crusade against the EU that had been going on for decades in the first place.

[Torben]

ah leshy,  I have been confronted with your countries politics and history in the recent past due to a new friend.  I'm really rooting for your country and your people to get back on their feet.  My friends concern is though, that because most able and young people leave the country,  it wont change for now...  your thoughts?

[Grytviken]

Holy fuck. It's always the Germans. Now they pressured the Isle Apes into the Brexit and secretly told Spain to start a war with them over Gibraltar afterwards. Kinda fucked up. I bet they were behind the retarded British tabloid crusade against the EU that had been going on for decades in the first place.

You're having a hard time understanding just how flawed your perspective is by contrast. If we start to think like you do then we will suddenly find that anyone can claim what is true and real and what was and what was not, everything will lose all meaning and all reason will begin to blur and fade into meaningless abject nothing and sycophancy.

[Torben]

The party and it's various organizations were the community.. the only community because of fascism obviously.

I guess either us two,  or maybe our countries or continents have a different perception of what socialism is.  I hope our conversation did help you to understand that there is more to this different perception, then just being "brainwashed".
I for one will consider your points when I should be confronted with similar to your ideas in the future,  although I dont concur.

[Grytviken]

I guess either us two,  or maybe our countries or continents have a different perception of what socialism is.  I hope our conversation did help you to understand that there is more to this different perception, then just being "brainwashed".
I for one will consider your points when I should be confronted with similar to your ideas in the future,  although I dont concur.

You're right. Socialists can only be do-gooders who accept refugees. They couldn't possibly also be fascists, bigots or racists, that would be impossible. You Europeans are so smart it must be my ignorant continental brain.

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