Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!

[Leesin]

Maybe he likes having an excuse to wear white dresses and pyjamas in public.

[Oberyn]

I don't pretend it is. At no point have I suggested my own experiences reflect on the wider world. I am well aware of the wahabi influence in a lot of countries. Particularly, from my own reading in following how many Islamic values have become significantly more conservative over the past couple hundred years as a result of sects such as those gaining prominence, particularly in the mid-19th century.

I am simply saying that you are equally in no position to make such large statements about the wider Muslim world as you so habitually do.

But as ever, Oberyn the keyboard warrior will not let the subject go once his teeth are into it so I'm going to leave it here and respond as I started.

 

So, what would you disagree with in this statement?:

"Actually a lot of the western/subsaharan muslims are completely fine as well. I like senegalese people a lot, for example. Never had any problems with them, never seen a senagalese jihadist filled with loathing and hatred for France and the french people, fantasizing constantly about killing the kuffar.The salafist/wahhabist theologic empire built by Saudi Arabia hasn't penetrated the ancient sufi traditions of subsaharan Africa (the Hausa-Fulani from the interior are a different story) to the point it has in say, Pakistan, a country that went from being dominated by sufi thought to being dominated by deobandi fanatics calling all the ancient traditions shirk and haram, accomplished thanks to the bottomless oil money from SA making sure all the mosques and governments preached a version of Islam closer to their own. They've given up funding the deobandis now though, and are just funding the salafist/wahhabist outright.
Shia Islam is also in every way a better fit for the modern western world than sunni Islam, largely because it was not affected by the backwards looking Asha'rite theology that closed the gates of Ijtihad. Shia terrorism is negligeable compared to sunni, and not just because there are much less of them overall."

It's no coincidence that the vast majority of attacks in France are from morrocans and algerians. No senegalese cutting off heads in the streets, no malians shooting up trains, no vietnamese planning out "retribution" for claims of oppression, racism, and imperialism, even though all these groups would have as much legitimate claim to it if not more than the morrocans and algerians. There have been various waves of immigrants to France already, and there were never russian orthodox zealots trying to kill native french out of a practically racial hatred and loathing, there were never italian extremists, there were never armenian cells planning out bombings and terror attacks. I don't think you realize the ammount of terrorist attacks that are stopped on a yearly basis, we only ever hear the ones that manage to set it in motion. The common link and source is obviously sunni extremism, and I don't see how willingly accepting more and more and more of them is in any way rational.

[Overdriven]

Maybe he likes having an excuse to wear white dresses and pyjamas in public.

I have to say, this is an unexpected bonus. So damn comfy in summer.

Mind you I never got on with the silly hats.

[Vibe]

My mum converted to Catholicism when she married my dad. It's what people tend to do.

I guess I just wonder since me, my family and my gf's family have nothing  to do with this religious mumbo jumbo (apart from having to pay for the fucking church in this shit country). I just like to poke at religious people, usually they're not the brightest biskets.

[Vibe]

Open-minded religious people tend to be quite open to the idea of conversion if they marry, especially if they can justify that it's worshiping the same *thing* just in a different way.

Most atheists would not realise this because when the not-so-bright atheist biskets try to enforce their own views in a not-so-bright way, somehow and mysteriously this makes the religious person who's receiving the brunt of this completely close themselves to the opinions of that person. If more atheists were better at putting their point across they'd likely find more theists to be receptive.

Oh there's definitely a fair amount of retarded atheists as well, but at least they're more self-retarded rather than impose-retarded, catch my drift? Thought the question is, which of these would be easier to fix.

[Oberyn]

I'm not an atheist, I'm closer to deist or agnostic than anything, but I've already pointed that out repeatedly. Obviously I have no problem with theists whose beliefs are so vague and inconsequential that they feel no problem jumping from one religion to another as it was a buffet. Sadly quite a lot of theists, especially those belonging to sunni islam, insist on shoving their religious values into the public, political, secular sphere, sometimes to the point of extreme violence. And they certainly are not interested in any sort of cultural compromise, the trend is quite in the opposite way. If certain agnostics point this out, certain theists start equivocating and pretending religions have absolutely no real world differences appart from minor theological squabbles, which can be resolved by simply converting. Because it's absolutely not a big deal to theists what specific schism or branch of monotheism they belong to, and this statement does not contradict the entirety of recorded history and the fucking reality of the present world in any way whatsoever. We should just ask muslims to convert to christianity when they marry christians, that will go over well. I'm sure there's no such thing as statistics on the subject, showing who converts to what when muslims marry kuffar, and what the children are forced to identity as from a young age. Gee, I wonder how many muslims have left Islam in the west? Surely it is a lot, because there is no compulsion, and there is absolutely no different between deconverting from islam and from christianity. Well shit, obviously muslims are just more convinced of the sanctity of their religion, it must just be really sacred and holy and true, that's the only possible explanation.

[Chris_the_Animal]

Playing World of Tanks a lot lately.
All I read, when someones sees the German Flag beneath my name is "chocolate chip cookies, chocolate chip cookies everywhere..."

[Vibe]

Would you not argue that a retarded atheist who just barks out arguments they've heard in the media or from exciting tv personalities is not also impose-retarded? The ideas are not their own, they only stick to them because they've been exposed to those views so much, kinda like a cradle theist who was born into a religious family and never thought to question it.

If a theist or an atheist actually came up with their own angle and used their brain at some point in their life, they are normally more open-minded as a result.

I guess yeah. However atheists sources have a chance to actually be true (however misinterpreted) whereas theists... there's nothing really to grab on there, is it?

[Overdriven]

I guess I just wonder since me, my family and my gf's family have nothing  to do with this religious mumbo jumbo (apart from having to pay for the fucking church in this shit country). I just like to poke at religious people, usually they're not the brightest biskets.

I've always believed in God. I grew up Christian, spent my teenage years questioning everything and actually had a very Oberyn outlook. Then in University I picked up a Quran, found it interesting to get a proper insight into it and over a few years of learning more and more, questioning a lot of aspects of it, I found an interest in it. Admittedly having a Muslim girlfriend did play a part there particularly in softening me up to other views. We spent a lot of time debating the ins and outs of religion and she's always credited me with helping her to criticise aspects of it as she grew up rarely questioning much whereas I came into it with an entirely suspicious mind.

It's difficult to pin point a moment where I decided to follow it. It was more a slow process. People like Oberyn, Xant, Leshma ect will inevitably point out there was a girl involved so that's the motivation but no amount of me saying anything else will persuade that lot or anyone else for that matter with that pov.

[Moncho]

Way to keep on track, guys. Somewhat interesting bullshit for a change though.

[Leshma]

Maybe he likes having an excuse to wear white dresses and pyjamas in public.

Do you really need an excuse to be weirdo in England? I mean, Balkanese people are known to take care about other people's doings more than their own which means you'll be labeled and ridiculed on the street if you do something even remotely out of order. But in chadz's hometown, it is completely different. As if there is unspoken law to mind your damn business no matter what happens.

People in pyjamas and slippers walking on the sidewalk, one dude riding a conference chair on a street. Seen bunch of odd things and not a single person seemed to be even slightly bothered by it.

[Leshma]

I just like to poke at religious people, usually they're not the brightest biskets.

Religion is the ultimate human virus, invented by God himself, to keep numbers in check.

[Molly]

Religion sucks.

The End.

[Falka]

The ideas are not their own, they (atheists) only stick to them because they've been exposed to those views so much, kinda like a cradle theist who was born into a religious family and never thought to question it.

Definitely not in POland.

[Leshma]

When I was born, my parents used to smoke because that was a fad. My mother was born in catholic oriented environment. Father's family was orthodox but they were surrounded and outnumbered by muslims. Good thing they are smart people who stopped smoking shortly after. Father was never religious type and virtually stopped celebrating our patron Saint which was his family tradition (mostly to keep "identity" among muslim majority). Mother used to go to church regularly as a child, not anymore. She still visit a church from time to time, mostly on important dates (death of her mother and husband's father). That church is orthodox however (catholic church is too far away). I somewhat believe in God, sometimes not (have periods as with everything else). Not religious and very rarely visit a church (St Stephen cathedral in Wien was a must, mainly because it is very spiritual place to be and architecture is out of this world). But I do sleep with a cross which helped me to deal with those demons I've mentioned six month ago.

What I'm trying to say is, most people had some kind of contact with God and religion. They have different views and expectations. But I strongly believe that only mentally unstable people are true devotees to ideas projected by religious leaders. Which is rather scary, because there is a ton of them.