Author Topic: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?  (Read 26972 times)

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Offline Erasmas

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Re: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2015, 09:15:58 pm »
+2
That is the path to certain failure. We made a mistake by focusing primarily on the cRPG community and by ignoring others. We have to learn from that mistake and correct it, not repeat it on a larger scale.

I personally do not agree that taking every opportunity to ensure your reputation is upheld is the path to certain failure  :wink: Anyway, I agree that basing solely on crpg community will not ensure the success of M:BG, and definitely the marketing will be needed before any form of sale, whatever the form of it you adopt. Kickstarter campaign showed that very clearly.

But I also think that at the moment, at least, the crpg community is the biggest population willing to support/buy the new game: do something pro publico bono to make it happen, buy the game when it is released, participate in Alpha and Beta - you name it. So please do not make the mistake of focusing primarily on others and ignoring the cRPG community...
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Offline Grytviken

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Re: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2015, 09:34:02 pm »
0
No, they are using the normal module system( and WSE(2)), with something like morghs you couldnt implement anything close to cRPGs database connections etc.

so this is all done with no gui?

Offline Krex

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Re: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2015, 09:55:25 pm »
0
Yup, everything but mapping/ creating items is done w/o gui.
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Offline Grytviken

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Re: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2015, 10:04:39 pm »
0
Yup, everything but mapping/ creating items is done w/o gui.

so basically you would have better luck finding a free hooker that can fuck, suck and cook all at the same time then finding a graphical artist who can consume XML services in python 2.0.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2015, 12:37:09 am »
+4
That is why, ages ago, I've asked them to start a new site/forum apart from cRPG site/forum.

Offline Kalam

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Re: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2015, 01:02:54 am »
+4
First of all, compared to plenty of games that people pay $60 for, cRPG doesn't have as many bugs and got more attention over time.

I am willing to bet a $10 steam game that this is true, if there were some way for us to find lines of code vs number of game breaking bugs. If one of you can find a way to do this, then this isn't just a hypothetical bet. Admittedly, we may have to decide what 'game breaking' is, first.

Consider a fledgling novelist- say her first attempted publicized work is fan fiction. It is great within the realm of fan fiction, but not literature at large. While writing her fan fiction, she's figured out her grammatical weaknesses, the tics in her prose, and lack of attention to minor plot points. It's all displayed for anyone to read in her fanfic, and fans of her fanfic are quick to point it out.

She could either spend her time (let's assume she could spend that time making minimum wage) re-writing her fanfiction, which is constrained by the world it draws from and the fact that she has no right to sell it, or she could finally write her own novel.

I will say this, dear devs: you could use a PR person.

You expect us to be smart enough to parse the truths you speak and extrapolate accordingly.

We are not.

And for every loud critic, there are probably quite a few who support your decision to leave the old project car by the wayside in favor of engineering your own supercar from scratch.


Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2015, 01:08:22 am »
0
Shut down the crpg servers, they're a waste of time this far into M:BG development.  No sense in supporting an old mod only a few people play.  Its had its time in the sun.  Now comes the night, then the new dawn of what is looking to be a pretty good game.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 01:57:12 am by lombardsoup »

Offline Nessaj

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Re: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2015, 04:05:36 am »
+13
Harpag I totally understand your sentiment, I wish the original Italy Mafia MOD for GTA3 was still there and running at full capacity, with the original lead having it as his main priority in life, but that isn't the case and IMHO there's nothing wrong with that. You're kinda blaming everyone who ever worked on this free mod for not keeping a 5 year old game relevant and alive, that's really not fair :D

You can see the cRPG credits list here: http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/credits/ (and it lacks some 10 new names actually :O will get them added!)

cRPG; don't forget its been almost entirely community run for like 3 years, it's not one guy, or two, or even 5, it's an enormous amount of people, and no one has made or is making any money, quite the contrary in terms of running costs. chadz/cmp is making patches come true once the work on them has accumulated enough to warrant an update. This work is done by community volunteers, in the most democratic way possible, there's multiple forums with community members who suggest, vote and discuss all changes, from new items, to balancing. A lot of the developers who made up cRPG has not been around for a long time, always been a lot of rotating, new volunteers try and salvage or pick up from where those previous left off, which is easier said than done most of the time, but the main thing is that some are always trying even if the resulting patches aren't the greatest, there's been tons of mistakes, but also tons and even more so of great times, huge learning experience for everyone no doubt.

My point is that there's a lot less people playing these days than there used to, we simply don't have the same amount of developers coming in as we once had, no eager new blood, no old blood. There is no chance for example for someone like Jacko to find time outside his job (full blame!) and working on Melee, to also maintain the mod in a high priority, he has to prioritize, and working an actual game project you want to be your future + maintaining a requiring full time job is tough and stressful. That's the deal with most previous developers, life, jobs and commitments have taken over, no time for the mod, or they moved on to other games. Those that are left are doing the best they can, it's slow but that's how it is when you're running at a much lower capacity. We are always trying to find new help :)

Also, half the Melee team did not work on developing cRPG, they contributed more as volunteers (models/textures/maps), some just played it and a few never worked on nor played the mod. The team isn't solely who you see in those now old ks videos, we've gone through a lot of changes since then.

Bottom line, we are going to make everyone happy, we have been discussing adding a new lead who can dedicate him self to making sure the mod will be updated and have developers working on it. I'll post more details about that SOON(TM), we will also update Melee.org with a new presentation in due time, it's not as easy you would think making those look good, but once that is locked in the update is coming up right after :wink:


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Offline StonedSteel

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Re: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2015, 05:35:08 am »
-2
June 28, 2014, 08:00:27 pm

"chadz, get a hold of your fucking mod, the people you intrusted it to, are killing it. Not a good look for M:BG, the only reference people will have for it is CRPG, and the things happening in CRPG, are ridiculous."

been saying "not a good look" for a long time now. i dont think they care. which is a shame. why bother caring when you have a new project to invest your concerns into?

Because like Harpeg said, people that dont know anything about you, wont know whether or not M:BG is worth buying. what CRPG players say about M:BG will make or break your sales.

I stayed away from CRPG for years, as i heard nothing but bad things about it from the native community, It wasnt until War of the Roses that i started hearing positive things about crpg.

Hearing these things made me come, strat 4 as good as it was made me donate. this is just one example of good work turning into profit. that was 2013, and the way its gone downhill from there...



the way you abandoned your old project, the extent at which your old project got progressively worse, the lack of PR that continues...seriously makes me consider handing over money to donkey crew again
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Offline Molly

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Re: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2015, 08:55:00 am »
+5
The only people who might be put off M:BG by the current state of cRPG would be cRPG players, and we don't want that kind of scum in M:BG anyway. On that note maybe M:BG launch day should coincide with a '10x EXP DAY' on cRPG to make sure that the worst most addicted scum is kept away from the new emerging M:BG community for 24 hours to give them a chance to like the game mechanics before they see the community.

Just imagine all those millions of people on steam seeing this game on release day, and then immediately checking cRPG forum to see when the last patch was for cRPG because obviously that will tell them everything they need to know about how good M:BG is. We have reached new depths of stupidity. People buy games they like the look of, noone apart from deluded cRPG players are going to judge M:BG by investigating this mod for an old game.

Or... chadz and co. could focus directly on this community's feedback, waste their time on cRPG and make the kind of niche game that only the 10 most vocal people on this forum would want to buy, and that noone else in the world would be even remotely interested in. But i'm sure it'd be SKILLBASED like crazy and the rest of the world would just be jealous! I trust chadz has the good sense to make a game that people would want to buy and play, not just a game that cRPG players would want to buy and play.
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Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2015, 09:31:25 am »
-5
Devs should have ended cRPG six months ago tbh.  Please focus 100% on the new game.

Offline Molly

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Re: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2015, 10:08:54 am »
+2
Devs should have ended cRPG six months ago tbh.  Please focus 100% on the new game.
Not ended... I still enjoy playing it!

Like I said:
Try to get a final version ready, not necessarily the DonkeyCrew themselves but the community devs, release Version 1.0 (no obvious graphical bugs, maybe the old auto-balance to leave something to bitch about in the mod :lol:) and close the development for crpg completely.
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Offline WarLord

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Re: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2015, 10:29:14 am »
+2
Not ended... I still enjoy playing it!

Like I said:
Try to get a final version ready, not necessarily the DonkeyCrew themselves but the community devs, release Version 1.0 (no obvious graphical bugs, maybe the old auto-balance to leave something to bitch about in the mod :lol:) and close the development for crpg completely.

This sounds good. At least fix missing textures and shop-pictures, eveything else is kinda okay.

Offline Mr_Oujamaflip

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Re: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2015, 10:48:14 am »
+1
Fix the servers , fix the minor bugs, head on to Melee Battlegrounds.

The servers being so laggy is the single biggest issue with CRPG, resolve that and it's not the end of the world.

Offline Grumbs

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Re: Why would I buy M:BG if you dont even fix bugs in your mod anymore?
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2015, 01:08:20 pm »
+1
What bugs? (Like seriously which ones :D I didn't see any mentioned in this thread and I haven't experienced any that 'repair' in the launcher didn't fix), some bugs cannot be fixed though, that's one of the whole main points about having our own engine for Melee, that we can fix and do what we want, stuff that cannot be done through modding or in other engines as easily. Some updates to cRPG would mean like months of hardcore engineering :>

The new balance system is really broken. It tries to balance at the end of every round so you end up with completely different teams. Not only that, but it doesn't actually make the teams more balanced - it looks at the team score and determines one team won a round, therefore the winning team is OP and needs to be nerfed, regardless of how close the round was. The way the teams are "balanced" (unbalanced) is to give extra players to the losing side and there is no limit on how many extra players you get. It intentionally unbalances the teams to try to make it impossible for one team to do well. You can get swapped over every single round..how is there even a real team if the players are different every round? Where is the fun of trying to win for one team, why even put in any effort, change tactics or use decent gear? Its like a deathmatch. Haven't seen anyone involved with the balance post about it since it was patched in

Some screens of skewing teams to force a win for the losing team. Usually the team win/loss is alternating every round simply because the winning team gets unbalanced, but here you can see if a team manages to win 3 or even 2 if the first (random round) was won:

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« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 01:14:20 pm by Grumbs »
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