Author Topic: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?  (Read 3555 times)

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Offline Hirlok

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Re: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2015, 01:40:14 pm »
+3
Skyrim happened.

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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2015, 02:06:48 pm »
+7
Part of the fun of the game for some people was levelling up and retiring. I wonder if they stopped playing because there is no good reason to retire anymore when you have lvl 35 STF's, an armoury full of looms and free respecs every 7 days. Is it harder to be a low level now too since the game is more lethal?
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Offline HappyPhantom

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Re: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2015, 07:22:58 pm »
+1
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Offline Kalam

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Re: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2015, 02:11:21 am »
+2
To be honest, NA became a lot more disenchanted with the Tydeus patching than EU did. It all started around 1 year ago when the wpf redo first occurred and stats started getting changed on ranged weapons. We had a fragile player base to begin with and when that happened, people started quitting never to return. You can say the mod is old, etc., but many of the people didn't quit because it was old, they quit because they didn't like the changes. Now it doesn't matter, you could literally revert everything and people still wouldn't come back. It's not like they are opening CRPG daily and checking server pop. They don't care about it anymore. They quit because they didn't like the direction the changes were going, the "increased" speed of combat (read: glancing, warping, general skull fuckery) that having stupid amounts of agi and wpf create. The endless nerfing of archery; changes in weapons that didn't make sense (FOR FUCKS SAKE STAB ON THE SPATHOVOKALIAN and using all 4d pole arms from horseback); 1h stab; now 2h stab; polearm stun removal; etc....that's where it went. Right down the shitter, swirling at the bottom of the bowl, never to be seen again. Sorry I got lost in the point I was trying to make, got a phone call so here's a gif of what I'm sure I would've typed:

You are right about the reason some players left, but I do believe those feelings are just good old resistance to change courtesy of loss aversion.

Also, combat speed decreased until the 'Revival' patch.

Honestly, giving everyone charts of statistics in terms of individual k/d rates and team composition wins may have made some players re-consider, but the pessimist on my shoulder says it wouldn't.

tl;dr I believe NA players don't like game balance. There's nothing inherently wrong with this.

Offline Jona

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Re: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2015, 04:53:59 am »
+3
Also, combat speed decreased until the 'Revival' patch.

How exactly did combat speed decrease after the wpf patch? Sure, pure strength builds post-patch would be slower than beforehand, however that patch was all too successful in killing off that class, I'm afraid. Since the average amount of agility most likely went up with that patch, both wpf and athletics increased as well, making combat faster, no?

And let's not forget the 1hand/polearm animation modifications that sped up their "weaker" swings (1h stab and rightswing, polearm overhead and leftswing).
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Offline Teeth

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Re: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2015, 12:27:51 pm »
0
Also, combat speed decreased until the 'Revival' patch.
Well, that is just plainly wrong and the opposite is actually true.

Offline BaleOhay

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Re: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2015, 01:56:59 pm »
+2
some patches were bad... I still hate the 1 hand right swing change, but the laggy servers is what really stopped me logging in.
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Offline Kalam

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Re: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2015, 02:55:28 pm »
0
Combat speed steadily slowed down from 2011 to 2014. It sped up when the 'Revival' patch hit.

Does that clear things up?

Offline Jona

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Re: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2015, 06:48:48 pm »
0
No.
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Offline Bronto

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Re: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2015, 07:26:59 pm »
0
Kalam your banter is much appreciated, however, many do not agree with your assessment of the speed of combat. I was of the opinion that combat speed did in fact speed up when the wpf formula was redone and we got free respecs. Then it further sped up when the "patch of destiny" occurred and people were given free respecs to higher levels.

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Offline Novamere

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Re: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2015, 09:30:20 pm »
0
Ive been playing on EU on and off, if you can get past the constant high ping its not that bad haha.

Offline Kalam

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Re: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2015, 01:34:56 am »
0
Kalam your banter is much appreciated, however, many do not agree with your assessment of the speed of combat. I was of the opinion that combat speed did in fact speed up when the wpf formula was redone and we got free respecs. Then it further sped up when the "patch of destiny" occurred and people were given free respecs to higher levels.

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I'm not sure if I'm misreading everything completely. Yes, the Revival patch increased the speed.

Before that, speed steadily decreased. The wpf formula increased it, yes, but only for certain builds, and it didn't make it anywhere near as fast as it used to be. Post-Revival patch is the closest thing to pre-2011, but it's still slower.

While there were ups and downs over the years, the general trend was slower combat until the Revival patch.

Offline Teeth

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Re: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2015, 02:25:51 am »
0
Combat speed steadily slowed down from 2011 to 2014. It sped up when the 'Revival' patch hit.

Does that clear things up?
Well, the speeding up started well before the patch, basically when Tydeus started being a balancer. Nearly every weapon got at least +1 speed rating, many slow animations were sped up and the WPF formula increased average wpf's significantly before the patch hit, all three of those are probably more significant speed changes than the higher levels of the revival patch.

Before that, speed steadily decreased. The wpf formula increased it, yes, but only for certain builds, and it didn't make it anywhere near as fast as it used to be. Post-Revival patch is the closest thing to pre-2011, but it's still slower.
Perhaps its slower than the 220 wpf monsters of 2010, even that I doubt, but it is absolutely not slower than 2011, not even close. It's easy to forget how bad people sucked in those days, but dig up an old video and it shows. Blocking the shit we block now would've been impossible for most of the playerbase back then. Native is a nice reference point and cRPG for the first time feels faster on average to me, discounting the retarded hiltslashes that are possible in Native.

Offline Dexxtaa

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Re: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2015, 03:29:09 am »
+10
I don't know. For the most part I abandoned this because the only time I ever saw certain balancers using anything other than their standard one-handed gear was to nerf said items. I used to defend Tydeus to the end with his changes, which started with changes in the right direction. I believed in those changes.

I come back for a few days every month or two, and all I see are steady decreases in quality-of-life changes made to riders, archers, ranged anything, polearms and - even now - the two-handers taken off their high perch. When people ditch their shields in favor of an even higher swing speed, when most of the population of a dead server is swinging espadas, scottish side swords and other one-handed fuckery, when all I see are people breaking their S-keys until their opponents get tired of chasing, then pull a crossbow on them; that's when I decided that this mod lost its charm. 

When I think of cRPG, I think of the golden days, where the servers were bumping, people were cursing and laughing together and at each other over shenanigans, and stuff was grossly unbalanced. And yet somehow, the game remained fun. Not this cesspool of filth comprising the systematic deconstruction of classes one by one.

It's not about the balancing, it's about the balance of that balancing. Call me biased, but riding has taken nothing but constant nerfs over the past couple years. I've tried to stay true to riding because it was fun. It wasn't the most useful thing in the game, and if our victims were even conscious when playing with half a functioning brain, there's no hope for us in a 1v1 save the best riders.

My most vivid memory of the moment I lost faith in this game was when I logged in to see Tydeus riding with a great lance. I was amused, given I was seeing Tydeus even in a saddle, I wondered how he hadn't fallen off the damn thing yet or speared himself on the lance trying to lower it. I asked him if he's changing his tack, and the response I got was something along the lines of "using a class to figure out how to nerf it." Of course, I immediately ignited and I vaguely recall the snarling, weeping and gnashing of teeth that followed. I realized I only ever see certain classes played by a balancer when it's heading for the gallows. That's been what drives the Remnant's excursions into cRPG: To see who's going on the chopping block next.

I don't care what it is. Because no one cares what your excuses are. All people care about is our perceptions, our own truths, and how we perceive things. I'm fairly positive that most people can agree that for the last two minor patches, one-handers have warranted at the very least a reconsideration, given their overpowering popularity (for obvious reasons). Yet we continue to see other classes getting hit. 

The biggest disconnect that finally lost NA was between the management and the community. You lost sight of why you were doing this. You looked at numbers and animations and all these different mechanics, wondering how the community continues to dwindle when more attention should have been paid to who you were catering to.

To me, personally, you made the game everything you wanted it to be. A haven for one handed users. BobtheHero was unique and his skills with a mediocre class made him special; now his style of one-handed, no-shield fighting is disgraced. Nothing can keep up with the raw speed and animation advantages one class, and classes used to counter what a fair fight could not were pummeled into the ground. Your excuses and reasoning don't matter, because I speak as a rider and polearm user. I guarantee you other classes have their own qualms.

Your job wasn't purely to "balance the numbers." it was also to keep sight of us, the player base, and be attuned to our needs.

This is why NA has crumbled. Because we're not actually interested in your stupid numbers and balance. We're interested in hanging out with our friends, complaining about stupid shit and playing a game that supports more than 10 of us on the same team. We don't give a shit about horse nerfs, we don't give a shit about two-handed stabs. We don't give a shit about agi/str builds. We played because it was fun.

Your nerfs should have encompassed several even nerfs across all the classes per patch, not condemning one for months until you could bring another down to its level.

You dirty fucking lesbians.
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Offline Teeth

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Re: Man, what the fuck happened to NA's cRPG population?
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2015, 06:14:17 am »
+2
Lance cav has been piss easy though since Tydeus fixed the lance sweetspots and turned the heavy glance into a 1vs1 wrecking machine of doom.