Few item balance suggestions

[Leshma]

• Give 1 armour points to 0.3 weight glove class to make 2 AR gloves. They used to be 0.1 weight, under old system that was 0.4 effective weight compared to 2 effective weight for next tier (0.5x4). Difference in armor rating when fully loomed is 3 points (5 vs 8) and difference in effective weight has decreased in favor of heavier gloves. These light gloves have been choice of the 'ranged' but that isn't the case anymore, due to changes in wpf formula. You kinda left them in a bad place atm.
• Do something about shield balance. It's a mess atm, which is result of trying to make certain shields more popular. Balancing based on looks has always been a bad idea, but at this point is completely out of place in a mod with 'oh so many' item combinations.

[San]

Shields such as..?

[Leshma]

Well, the other buckler (steel buckler, the 'expensive' one) seems oddly placed. It's a good looking shield but I'm not sure does that warrant stats being so strange. If I'm not mistaken, shield skill affects only radius of the shield or width stat. That makes round shields superior to those with both width and height stats. Maybe this was changed in the meantime, haven't been playing for a long time.

Internal shield balance confuses me in general. Not sure how you rank them. Noticed they have pretty much the same price (differences in price aren't that big), which should mean they are all good but still, I'm kinda used to linear progression of items (tiers still exist among weapon categories, not pronounced as before but still there).

Just for the record, I'm not using a shield and not planning to use one. Just something I've noticed, that seemed strange to me while browsing the shop.

Question regarding gloves buff. What is the threshold for lordly status of +3 gloves? Or is it manually chosen? Because if giving gloves 2 AR, means they will become lordly, then it isn't a good idea as a thought it was. If they still keep reinforced prefix, then it works as intended (6 AR vs 8 AR for next glove tier, 2 AR difference for 1.2 effective weight).

[San]

I think it's both width and height for shield skill. I tried some buckler builds wtih 8-9 shield and couldn't really be hit around it, except for my toes.

Here's How I think of shields: Let's say 50 to 62 armor reduces damage by 6. 20 hits and you've saved 120 hp vs the other shield. It takes an even smaller armor difference on the lower end to decrease damage, making 4-5 armor increases quite huge. If something seems out of place, that would be appreciated

I think for internal shield balance, you mean how shields don't become too much better for every difficulty increase? This is because that shields get objectively better as the difficulty increases, which stacks with the defense boost from shield skill. Someone with 2 shield skill and a Horseman's Heater shield will have it break much earlier than someone with 4 shield and a Knightly Heater shield. For someone with high shield skill, there's little point in using the lower tier shields although they'd be decent, outside of the 4-skill tier lacking a lightweight shield option like the others have.

Question regarding gloves buff. What is the threshold for lordly status of +3 gloves? Or is it manually chosen? Because if giving gloves 2 AR, means they will become lordly, then it isn't a good idea as a thought it was. If they still keep reinforced prefix, then it works as intended (6 AR vs 8 AR for next glove tier, 2 AR difference for 1.2 effective weight).

Items are given a tag for what boosts they receive. Gloves just use the same tags as armour. Admittedly, they are balanced at +3 to address the large boost in effectiveness they get. If I were an archer, I wouldn't wear gloves vs ones at +0. 1.8 effective weight for 5 armor vs 3 effective weight for 8 armor isn't too bad of a tradeoff, could be better though with custom loom tags for gloves.

[Teeth]

I personally see very little point in not going for a round shield, getting hit or shot around my shield is frequent with anything around the 40 width range.

[Umbra]

Haven't they removed the forcefield bonus you get from taking more shield skill?

[Algarn]

No. I see it everyday, bucklers blocking shots while the arrow was aiming for the foot... Always makes me mad at some point when it happens too much.

[QuisUtDeus]

I personally see very little point in not going for a round shield, getting hit or shot around my shield is frequent with anything around the 40 width range.

This is the only thing that worries me about the internal shield balance .. a bit.

Other than that it seems like there is more diversity possible now with the shield choice and i like it:
  Do i really want to put the 5th shield skill and take advantage of low weight knightly kite to be as fast as possible? Or do i want to block for my team, too,in which case right now there is more options than the huscarls round?

If you want a really durable shield - you have to commit to it. If you want a really lightweighted one - you have to commit to it. Seems fine to me.

[hellou]

No. I see it everyday, bucklers blocking shots while the arrow was aiming for the foot... Always makes me mad at some point when it happens too much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1lr-9Gren0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFq2dGSVdOI

[Leshma]

Bucklers are definitely having forcefield. Tried one yesterday with 5 Shield Skill and arrow was stuck in the air above buckler.

[GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER]

I personally see very little point in not going for a round shield, getting hit or shot around my shield is frequent with anything around the 40 width range.

I never really considered that before... Buff speed by like 1 point on knightly heater shield pls.

[BlindGuy]

If you want a really durable shield - you have to commit to it. If you want a really lightweighted one - you have to commit to it. Seems fine to me.

Or... take the shield called Round Shield at +3, with 8 shield skill, and a 1h axe: I've never 1v1'd another shielder, no matter his setup, and had mine break first. ALthough, of course, half of shield fighting in melee (I still hold that shields are to block ranged, not hits, weapons block hits without breaking and that makes them infinitly better IMO) for me is the fun of having my shield be completely unscathed while the enemies is in peices on the floor, by using timing, chambers and liberal S keying to avoid even having to block.

And sure most ppl these days can block without the shield but its funny to see guys who are big dick swinging heroes untill their shield is smashed and suddenly they desperatly try to spam, unable to defend themselves anymore. Makes me chuckle.

[Thryn]

[BlindGuy]

While IRL this guy has good points it cannot apply to CRPG: I would love to have plate that, as real life, can pretty much make you next to immune to arrows and bolts, but I feel I'm justified because I'm filthy rich ingame. But unless you make the plate cost a few hundred thousand gold per peice, it wont be reflective of real life: not everyone had plate, even up the advent of gunpowder making armour redundant, plate was the minority and only for the filthy rich.

Unless it was actually expensive (and lets be honest, I can use any gear I want in crpg, upkeep is a joke) making plate realistic would be a bad call, because much as I hate crossbows and archers, realistic plate without extreme price would remove all ranged from game, and I am a cool guy and think even my old friendguts should be able to play.

[Shatter]

My problem with internal shield balance is that the shields of the same type progressively increase in weight as you go higher in difficulty (ex: Round Cavalry Shield is 3.5 weight (2 difficulty) while Elite Cavalry Shield is 4.5 weight (4 difficulty)).  The stat differences between the items is pretty underwhelming considering the lower tier versions have the same radius/width/height as their higher tier counterparts.  As a result, I find that I'm not really motivated to go more into shield unless I want a special kind  of shield like a Huscarl/Plate shield or I just have spare points to throw into shield.