Will new items ever be added?

[Rico]

Since zagibu left, nothing has been added. This is like half a year ago now. Do we have a new item manager? If not, can we get one soon? I know you devs are busy with M:BG and I am sure you will make a good job, but please do not abandon cRPG

This is an issue because we have stuff like
- Panos' suggestions for OSPs
- Alex's thread with lots of retextures and some new items
- European Cav Sword
...

which waits to be added.

[Panos_]

Have hope my fellow nerd, have hope.. 

[Umbra]

hi,
its signed,
i can only approved.
Umbra

[Legs]

For this sort of stuff I think you have to either volunteer or nominate someone and have them accept. The devs won't go out of their way to find somebody.

[Tydeus]

For this sort of stuff I think you have to either volunteer or nominate someone and have them accept. The devs won't go out of their way to find somebody.

You pretty much have to take the initiative to show (at least some) dedication, as well you own capabilities.

[Rico]

For this sort of stuff I think you have to either volunteer or nominate someone and have them accept. The devs won't go out of their way to find somebody.

Yes I agree, but for that we first have to determine the current state. I have honestly no idea if candidates have been suggested to the devs, and what their reaction was. I don't know either which skills are needed for item managers. Is it enough to know texture and 3D-model stuff and have high quality standards, or is additional coding knowledge etc. needed? Hopefully we can narrow down the requirements in this discussion and together try to find someone to do the job.

[Tydeus]

Yes I agree, but for that we first have to determine the current state. I have honestly no idea if candidates have been suggested to the devs, and what their reaction was. I don't know either which skills are needed for item managers. Is it enough to know texture and 3D-model stuff and have high quality standards, or is additional coding knowledge etc. needed? Hopefully we can narrow down the requirements in this discussion and together try to find someone to do the job.

We recently had a thread about this, so here's an excerpt from it.

As the Acting Item Manager (Read: Stats-Bitch), I should probably straighten a few misconceptions out, as well as offer what information I can about the position.
At the moment, your statement would certainly seem to have some truth to it.

We use a Google Docs Spreadsheets to add stats, we don't edit module_items manually. When chadz compiles for a patch, the module_items.py file is generated using the spreadsheet, so the issue isn't that we need someone do to simple stuff like creating item stats (Item Balancers create the stats anyway, all an Item Manager does is put them into the sheet.) It's that any "Item Manager" will have to have an eye for quality. There are a lot of restrictions that items have to pass through before getting accepted, so it turns out to be quite a tedious task. If you as Item Manager create/edit models/textures, it still has to pass through the normal voting procedure to be able to get implemented. While It's not a rigorous test or anything, it does mean you as the author, don't get the final say.

Really, just about anyone could suffice, but here's a list of things that any candidate will be confronted with or will need to know (might also be worth noting that it would seem, understandably, that chadz highly values initiative). Without the knowledge of how the modeling and texturing process works, so you can fix other people's models/textures, as well as have the willingness to do so, any Item Manger is going to be rather hard pressed to find acceptable OSPs. You must have the author's approval (many people, surprisingly, don't understand this), and you have to scrutinize each OSP filtering out all the items that don't really fall within the timeline or style that cRPG has (Nothing fantasy for example, it shouldn't stick out like a sore thumb), as well as ensuring the items have an appropriate poly count and LOD meshes.

(click to show/hide)

There are likely things that I am missing, so don't consider this to be the end of the list rather, just a brief description.

Anyways, I do agree with you that really, anyone could do this job. The most important quality for any candidates would be enthusiasm, and of course having plenty of free time to devote to this task would be another perk. However, the more knowledge on the subject someone has, the better they could do their job. If the crpg community as a whole really likes an armor set, however it won't be added since the chainmail is too dull, then the item manager could work on it to make it acceptable if they know how to do some texturing. Really, it all boils down to how useful the devs would want their item manager to be. If they want someone who simply funnels in all of the many requests, then they could pick anyone. If they want someone who really knows their stuff like zagibu did, then they will have a harder time finding someone. Regardless, the odds of them hiring a new item manager are slim to none, since they "are not by any means stranded" without an item manager. Granted, the community wants one so we could get more shiny things added, the devs don't really understand that and thus we shall be stuck where we are.

Pretty much this. The last sentence of course is completely off the mark though. "Devs don't really understand" No, it's because we understand that the community just wants nearly anything (not necessarily a bad thing, it just isn't what we want) that finding an appropriate Item Manage is so much more difficult. If we could guarantee that every applicant had high standards, we wouldn't have to worry about things getting added that don't deserve to be in game. What's more, is that Item Managers have to have access to the cRPG MS files, as well as write access to the Item Sheet we use, so trust plays a factor as well.

Just to clarify, Item Managers aren't Item Balancers. Unless after we find a new Item Manager (assuming we do) things change, they won't be able to vote on any item/mechanics balance changes, so their views on balance are irrelevant. What's important is that they value quality over quantity. Yes we have some low quality models, but we do not remove items and considering how cRPG began, that's to be expected. If we can replace the uglier models and textures we have with better ones, it's better to do that than to add all new items.

Edit: I probably didn't stress the 'trust' factor properly. Of all the requirements, being able to trust a candidate I'd imagine, would certainly fall in the top 3.

[Rico]

As the Acting Item Manager...

Maybe I am mixing stuff up. What is the difference between you and zagibu?

[Tydeus]

Maybe I am mixing stuff up. What is the difference between you and zagibu?

A lot, really. He was always really enthusiastic about getting new items added, perhaps? He didn't mind trying to fix models/textures, whereas I have no interest in doing such and what's worse, items just don't interest me enough to make that part of item management a priority (there are other duties beyond simply adding items). I figured I'd likely add a few things here and there (I did (re)add the Crowned Helm, Looney Toons Axe and the Boulder on a Stick), but I also didn't expect to be taking up the Event Manager position either (let alone keeping it for this long, my intention was to get things started and then find a replacement from the community). Unlike Zagibu, I have other positions of responsibility and I enjoy working towards those ends more than I enjoy(I actually hate doing it) adding new items.

I'm only the "Acting" Item Manager because when he left, we couldn't get item patches anymore since cmp(the Item Manager prior to Zagibu) was working full-time on Melee. After it was clear that things weren't getting done, I was asked if I wanted the position, I initially said 'lolno'. Then, after about a week of nothing happening, I decided to take up the position so that we could continue to get patches out. If possible, I'd really like to have someone else take up this position, as well as the Event Manager position. Unfortunately, everyone's applications thus far, seem superficial.

tldr; He took the position because he enjoyed adding items. I took the position as a last resort.

[Rico]

It seems like you have really high expectations for item managers. They have to be experienced with the game play of all classes and need a lot of free time to discuss balance decisions. There is also texture refinements and adding of new items which have to get done. I believe you haven't gotten any serious applications because this is too much for one person to do. Maybe this is also the reason why zagibu is MIA since the beginning of the year.

You said yourself that you don't have the time to add new items, Tydeus. On the other hand, you make very refined balancing and put very much thought into it. I think the current council should entirely focus on balancing, and new item manager applicants should entirely focus on refining the textures of items we have (e.g. the black square in Worn Robe, the "warped" Eastern Lamellar with Jacket with some animations, some leg armors looking "cut off"...) and adding items to the mod.

This narrows down the position of the item manager applicants you are looking for. On the one hand, this will reduce the requirement, so you have to be less careful about who to pick. Someone with texturing skill, a bit of design knowledge and the willingness to apply it will be enough. Simply give this person access to the item database and allow him to add stuff. If you want some sort of control mechanism, create a council of these people who observe each other and have veto rights. On the other hand, the people who apply for this job will know exactly what to do, and not bother with stuff we currently do not need (e.g. even more item-balance decision-makers). This will encourage more people to apply.

I hope it's clear now what I am trying to say.

[Tydeus]

Maybe we would find someone if we demystified the term "item manager" to something like "guy who adds new items and fixes textures", because the council is working a lot on balance decisions anyways and there is no need for additional balance-discussing people it seems. What is needed is some OSP/texture dude, which is only one of the jobs of "item managers".

Do you approve of some restructuring measures to narrow down the position we seek to fill to texturing and adding?

edit: grammar hard yo (c)jarlek

Do *I* approve of some "restructuring measures"? Sure I guess, but you don't need my approval for anything, you need chadz's.

Knowing what I know about the who's and why's of those that have gained positions other than just "admin", were I a "nobody" trying to become Item Manager/Event Manager/Item Advisor, I'd start by actually doing the 'job'(or at least as much as possible) rather than waiting to be handed the fancy forum tag. Also, I'd make sure I hug out as much as possible in the irc channel #mount&blade-crpg.

And there actually is a need for "additional balance-discussing people."

Edit: Actually, there's a need for just about everything.
Edit2: Also, irc is a bit of a requirement for many positions.

[Rico]

Edit: Actually, there's a need for just about everything.

It is probably better to split the positions into two fields of jobs nevertheless.

[Tydeus]

It is probably better to split the positions into two fields of jobs nevertheless.

Item Manager doesn't normally have any item balance say. The only thing Item Manager has to do, is propose items to be added to the Balancers for voting, edit the item sheet with the accepted item's stats, add the appropriate files to the SVN, and previously he would also have to enter all the stat changes for items that balancers decided on. The last one can probably be taken care of by me, even after we find an Item Manager (One of Zagibu's gripes was that he was essentially the "Item-Bitch", because of this).

[Rico]

Item Manager doesn't normally have any item balance say.

If so, why are you looking for item balancers in this discussion http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/%28applications%29-item-balancers/msg734348/#msg734348 and not for item managers in the first place? Since you are doing a good job already, it should be clear what is needed the most.

[Munin]

As much i would love to get a proper raven-winged helmet to my character Munin (For Almighty Raven-God and Allfather!), black cloak and slice thee with Biflindi, i think items are pretty much well covered already in this mod. Old dog wont get excited even when new toys are presented, if you get what i mean. Maybe not: this mod is quite old.

Still, would not mind seeing this in-game 
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