ADD A FUCKING RANGED CAP ALREADY

[Jona]

Agi was buffed for several reasons, whether or not you agree is irrelevant, the truth of the matter is that nearly all of the skilled, long time players were in agreement that STR was far better than AGI.

Skilled long time players... hmmm... kinda like all your pals in chaos? All your pals, who before the patch were nearly all agi, and who after the patch are pretty much 100% agi? Now, I am not trying to argue that strength was not OP (reading comprehension is hard) I am only saying that agi had no reason for a buff. It was incredibly strong even when STR reigned supreme, however it was underutilized since STR was more effective, for the reasons you noted. Arguably, in a more skilled player's hands, AGI was still the way to go. You could say STR had a larger margin for error, which would be true, but once you don't make many mistakes with your blocks, AGI was just as powerful an option, if not even more so. However, while removing a high strength build's effectiveness, you also buffed agility builds. So you remove the strongest class, while simultaneously buffing the second strongest class. Now with #1 removed, #2 is even stronger, making it just as bad as pure STR was beforehand.

I'm sure you don't actually mean to say I banned allers, because I had nothing to do with that decision and haven't even taken the time to look at anything more than the logs San posted (which would seem to support the ban.)

No, you were not the executioner, but being on the NA admin team you were the judge and jury. The whole team voted on whether he should or should not be banned. From what I've heard, there were not many in favor of the second option. Odds are, you supported the first. Or, if as you said you literally did nothing about it, well you know the saying I am sure, "Evil prevails when good men stand by and do nothing."

And for the record, I have no need to proofread what I type before I "publicize" it. I am but a mere player in this community, it is not like I have any position of power where I should at least try and maintain the illusion of intelligence. You know how it works in the real world; politician X says something rude or uneducated about topic Y, and even though plenty of regular citizens might have said the same thing, since he is put up on a pedestal it is a big deal that he now looks like a dumbass. Not only that, but there is a difference between trying to pass off your opinion, and yours alone as fact, compared to passing off the opinion(s) of nearly the entire community as fact. It doesn't have to be a fact, it just has to be something that is widely accepted. You have to realize that in a small community like this, if 98% of the playerbase is in agreement on something, well, their opinions should pretty much be regarded as fact. At what point do their opinions become regarded as fact? Who knows...

Stop associated with only the same small group of "elite long time players" and stoop down to the average players' (or even the noobs') level for a change to really understand the state of this mod.

[jtobiasm]

Hows about fix the flags before you think about changing archery.

[Joseph Porta]

The moment arrows are knocking people down i'm done. 

Would be hilarious though 

[Switchtense]

We don't necessarily need to target nerfs at the best players. To me the idea is to make sure there are fewer safe havens for players who don't want to learn to get better at the game. HA/HX is a clear one, uber hybrid mode (no real drawbacks) is another especially with xbows (shield, 1 hander, xbow and decent armour)

Yeah, I know. I have been saying that they are a bad example myself, just realised that

But if an archer prefers to sacrifice manoeuvrability to wear heavier armour, let them.

If a new players decides to play archer then he will definitely find out that they are a whole lot slower wearing heavy armour. Also they might notice that their aim is not as accurate, or they cannot hold the arrow as long.

In my opinion HA/HX are the biggest safe haven, as you called it. Requires no skill at all do not die instantly.
Hybrids are no real safe haven for new players I think. A new player is not high level enough to have some totally OP hybrid build. (Obviously there are some people who are high level and still are totally shit at the game, like Kinngrimm, but that is not the majority)
Melee hybrids are alright anyway, cause if you suck at the game, then even the most OP melee hybrid will do jack shit since you can't block or attack.
Ranged/melee hybrid requires you to be a somewhat high level. Lvl30 makes it fairly difficult to make an OP archer/inf hybrid.
Xbows got a lot better now that they are 15 str for Heavy and 18 for Arbs. But you are still able to snipe and kite forever, so maybe increasing the weight of bolts might do the trick.

[Switchtense]

The moment arrows are knocking people down i'm done. 

Would be hilarious though 

Knockdown, crushthrough and Bonus against shields: make it happen!

[Joseph Porta]

Knockdown, crushthrough and Bonus against shields: make it happen!

And when you get 5 kills in one round you get a tactical arrow nuke 

[Thryn]

Seriously though, reduce the number of arrows they can carry.

HA's should be inclined to go for other ranged, yet they go for heavy armored players who can tank 10 arrows. They do this because they can carry 60 arrows. Also, they can't be caught for shit, leading them to do nothing other than follow one or two players across the map until they get the kill(s) without being contested (aka free valour).

"Woah, woah, woah Thryn! What about other cav who can kill them?"

(click to show/hide)

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They can't catch them, and the lancing angles make it easy enough for them to turn around and stall cav every time. Oh, and they can shoot behind themselves, so you'll just be running in a massive counterclockwise circle all day. Have fun. (Is there a way to improve the angles for light cav only? Might help give light cav a + over heavy cav)

Also, the only bow that I want to see have decent accuracy out to range is the longbow. Crossbows and lighter bows should shoot like shit from farther distances, but ranged snipers are still bb'ing me from across the map. Also, reduce the speed of projectiles so we can dodge them.

Please, at least do something so I don't have to reiterate myself. And undo the weight reductions. If sneekybver it across the map only to have archers run away for the rest of the round... yeah.

THIS ISN'T LIKE EVERY OTHER NERF THREAD, ARCHERS/HA/HX DO THEIR #RANGEDMASTERRACE SHIT EVERY DAMN ROUND FOR AN EXTRA 2-3 MINUTES, GAMBLING WITH WHATEVER MULTIPLIER THAT OTHER PLAYERS MIGHT HAVE EARNED BECAUSE THEY PLAY EZMODESAFEHAVENNOSKILL RANGED CLASS.

"Oh but Thryn, 2-3 minutes means more XP!" Not when you're rolling x1 all night due to my old friendcher stack on the other team.

/rambling

[Thomek]

(click to show/hide)

Skilled long time players... hmmm... kinda like all your pals in chaos? All your pals, who before the patch were nearly all agi, and who after the patch are pretty much 100% agi? Now, I am not trying to argue that strength was not OP (reading comprehension is hard) I am only saying that agi had no reason for a buff. It was incredibly strong even when STR reigned supreme, however it was underutilized since STR was more effective, for the reasons you noted. Arguably, in a more skilled player's hands, AGI was still the way to go. You could say STR had a larger margin for error, which would be true, but once you don't make many mistakes with your blocks, AGI was just as powerful an option, if not even more so. However, while removing a high strength build's effectiveness, you also buffed agility builds. So you remove the strongest class, while simultaneously buffing the second strongest class. Now with #1 removed, #2 is even stronger, making it just as bad as pure STR was beforehand.

No, you were not the executioner, but being on the NA admin team you were the judge and jury. The whole team voted on whether he should or should not be banned. From what I've heard, there were not many in favor of the second option. Odds are, you supported the first. Or, if as you said you literally did nothing about it, well you know the saying I am sure, "Evil prevails when good men stand by and do nothing."

And for the record, I have no need to proofread what I type before I "publicize" it. I am but a mere player in this community, it is not like I have any position of power where I should at least try and maintain the illusion of intelligence. You know how it works in the real world; politician X says something rude or uneducated about topic Y, and even though plenty of regular citizens might have said the same thing, since he is put up on a pedestal it is a big deal that he now looks like a dumbass. Not only that, but there is a difference between trying to pass off your opinion, and yours alone as fact, compared to passing off the opinion(s) of nearly the entire community as fact. It doesn't have to be a fact, it just has to be something that is widely accepted. You have to realize that in a small community like this, if 98% of the playerbase is in agreement on something, well, their opinions should pretty much be regarded as fact. At what point do their opinions become regarded as fact? Who knows...

Stop associated with only the same small group of "elite long time players" and stoop down to the average players' (or even the noobs') level for a change to really understand the state of this mod.

Jona, are you insane? Or just a tad paranoid?

[Konrax]

What if using WSE2 range was given it's own damage type all together?

That way we could tweak it using non-melee weapon values.

[Switchtense]

Nerfing HA/HX would be easily done by reducing their angle of firing significantly.

[Konrax]

Nerfing HA/HX would be easily done by reducing their angle of firing significantly.

This is highly unrealistic though, but I believe there is a realism answer that could work!

Instead of nerfing the firing arc of the rider, make it that there is a responsiveness penalty to the horse, as well as a reduction in the maneuverability of the horse. Reason being is that control of the horse with only your legs is rather difficult to do, and also not as effective of a way to get the horse to do what you want. This way HA can still move around normally IF they have a normal weapon out, but while they are firing it will be more difficult for them to dodge around.

[Grumbs]

Rather than making it complicated, couldn't you make all the bows "unusuable with horse", but make one or 2 of them usable but with bad stats?

[Switchtense]

Since when does anybody care about realism in cRPG when considering nerfs/buffs?

[Thryn]

This is highly unrealistic though, but I believe there is a realism answer that could work!

Instead of nerfing the firing arc of the rider, make it that there is a responsiveness penalty to the horse, as well as a reduction in the maneuverability of the horse. Reason being is that control of the horse with only your legs is rather difficult to do, and also not as effective of a way to get the horse to do what you want. This way HA can still move around normally IF they have a normal weapon out, but while they are firing it will be more difficult for them to dodge around.

I think horses should be slower and less maneuverable in general. The "realistic" aspect of horses in warfare is also missing, considering none panic and throw riders, break legs, or fall and crush other men.

I'm also for the reduction of acceleration/deceleration of horses, so that HA's who try to start and stop all day and cav that gets caught in a mob have a harder time getting out of sticky situations.

[Konrax]

Since when does anybody care about realism in cRPG when considering nerfs/buffs?

Because if it can fit and still work, it helps with immersion.

Originally this game was supposed to be a realistic melee combat type game, but using the "it's a game" excuse to nerf/buff things in an uncreative way is what we got. What I suggested would nerf HA/HX, it would also do it in a way that makes sense and would compliment game mechanics instead of just taking damage away or limiting the availability of items.