Increase the difficulty requirement on Medium/Heavy tier armours. POLL ADDED!

[Gravoth_iii]

I wouldnt say a 2.2 or 2.8 is a very op KD for agi based/agi whore builds, i myself am sitting at
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Nothing amazing, i'd say a balance build wouldve been more effective but its just preferences. Str based/crutches probably sit at the same ratio. I dont think specializing in any attribute right now is op compared to the other, while balance still wins over both.

I get 2 hit by most builds, and occasionally oneshot by str builds.

[Tydeus]

I wanted to point out that I get 2hitted from agility builds, due to hideous speed bonus damage.

So how does one conclude from this, that the problem is armor? (I agree, armor is problematic, but I think your reasoning for this conclusion is flawed)

[Panos_]

Is it? Define overpowered. Agility is strong in whose hands? Strength is weak in whose hands? What/how many different settings? With what types of equipment?

Pros of using a STR build with a lot of IF and plate armour
1. Survivability (8 to 10 hits??)
2. You can two hit the majority of the players

Cons of using a STR build with a lot of IF and plate armour
1. Slow as fuck
2. If left alone, it is almost certain that you`ll get ganked
3. Everyone can outswing you
4. Easy target for ranged due to the lack of ATH
5. Loss of hit damage due to no speed bonus


Pros of using an agi based build with some IF and plate
1. Survivability, (5-6 hits??)
2. Good bonus damage due to hight speed
3. Can outswing most
4. Can easily avoid ranged, but still having the safety of plate armour
5. Can easily escape a mob who hunts him

Cons of using an agi based build with some IF and plate
1. 
2. 
3. 

I never understood why the mod favours spam and agility that much, for real.

[no_rules_just_play]

All the exaggeration...

Anyway, going heavy armour with an agi build is a pure waste. Remember me when I was wearing that +3 heraldic transitional armour? Well it fucking sucked and I bought a saracen lamellar cuirass and a brigandine over mail because I was too slow to use footwork and too weak to do acceptable dmg without a speedbonus.
Kept the heavy armour for when playing cav because it looks so sexy tho.

[Panos_]

All the exaggeration...

exaggeration because you don`t agree with it.

But sadly for you, you are the one fourth.

[no_rules_just_play]

exaggeration because you don`t agree with it.

But sadly for you, you are the one fourth.

Cons of using an agi based build with some IF and plate
1. 
2. 
3. 

Sure man, keep believing you know it all and keep forgetting to add that heavy armour fucks up your moving speed which then fucks up your damage output and footwork.

[Panos_]

So how does one conclude from this, that the problem is armor? (I agree, armor is problematic, but I think your reasoning for this conclusion is flawed)

By re tweaking the armour req`s, you`ll force players to use more STR if they want protection, thus losing agility and speed bonus damage, since for some weird reason in this mod speed bonus damage is better than the actual raw damage 

Sure man, keep believing you know it all and keep forgetting to add that heavy armour fucks up your moving speed which then fucks up your damage output and footwork.

The only thing I know, is that I don't know anything.

[Gravoth_iii]

That shit is so biased, most of the cons for str are all due to speed being low so:

STR pros
High damage
High health
Uses armor effectively due to high health


Cons
Slow movement
Slightly lower swing speed
Cant hybrid


AGI pros
High movement speed (can escape easily)
Decent damage due to speed
Slightly faster swings
Can hybrid with high WM

Cons
Low health so dies in 2-3 good hits
More movement speed more better (the lighter the armour the more effective you become)
Movement speed does jack shit in clusterfucks


So basically strapping on a ton of plate gives you some teamfight potential but then you can barely run away, you lose speed bonus damage and less wpf while a str tincan still has high damage and tanks like a mothertrucker.

[Panos_]

That shit is so biased, most of the cons for str are all due to speed being low so:

STR pros
High damage
High health
Uses armor effectively due to high health


Cons
Slow movement
Slightly lower swing speed : SLIGHTY??? Yeah right  
Cant hybrid


AGI pros
High movement speed (can escape easily)
Decent damage due to speed
Slightly faster swings
Can hybrid with high WM

Cons
Low health so dies in 2-3 good hits : Even a player with a loomed kuyak and some gloves can survive more than that, let alone an agility plate user
More movement speed more better (the lighter the armour the more effective you become) : but the thing is that the penalty when you have high athletics, is not visible, you still can out speed most in lighter gear but with less athletics 
Movement speed does jack shit in clusterfucks : you can escape easy


So basically strapping on a ton of plate gives you some teamfight potential but then you can barely run away, you lose speed bonus damage and less wpf while a str tincan still has high damage and tanks like a mothertrucker.

#rekt

[Tydeus]

Judging from your analysis, one would conclude that plate is most beneficial for agility builds, rather than strength. If thats the case, does that mean strength builds benefit the most from lower weight armors, or does agility get the most out of all armor values, all the way down to bare skin?

Regardless, I don't think you've thought about the questions I previously asked, well enough, so here's some more.

Is strength or agility better when...

• Everyone has plate armor
• Everyone has medium armor
• Everyone has low armor
• It's a siege
• It's a battle
• It's a strategus battle/siege
• Team stack(s) are present
• The server is mostly randoms
• It's a 1v1
• It's a 5v5
• it's a 30v30
• There is a low amount of ranged on
• There is a high amount of ranged on
• There is a low amount of cav on
• There is a high amount of cav on
• The map has a lot of hills
• The terrain is mostly flat

These are the types of questions you should be asking. Now a days, when I think about the answer to these, one theme tends to shine through. Overall, strength is no better than agility. In many situations, strength is clearly superior, in others, agility is superior. 6 months ago, had I asked these questions, strength would have been the clear winner.

[Panos_]

I wonder why all of you agility whores don`t want a change in the armour req`s, since you claim that agi build + heavy armour fucks up your build..

Yes I indeed wonder why 

[Gravoth_iii]

Im using 56 body armour, i get 2-3 shot. The penalty using heavy armour with high athletics is visible, it fucks footwork up and its just not worth taking 1 more hit for.
Slower swingspeed isnt that much of a deal when you have that big of a damage output, hold attacks are still the best.
I already put the escaping easy thing in the pros, its a good thing but most of the time when you escape your team is still dying and so your fucked in the long run.

The only reason im fighting for plate to stay as it is is because there is no point in removing it from agi whores. Having options open for you is fun, sometime maybe i wanna plate up and spam instead of sitting on the outskirts of the fight trying to pick people off.

[Panos_]

The only reason im fighting for plate to stay as it is is because there is no point in removing it from agi whores. Having options open for you is fun, sometime maybe i wanna plate up and spam instead of sitting on the outskirts of the fight trying to pick people off.

No.

Str builds cant have that, why should you?


You invested to be fast but weak, while STR builds can never be fast AND tanky.

[Gravoth_iii]

They can be powerhouses and tanky, str builds can hiltslash for insane damage while if agi DOESNT GLANCE and gets the spam off they do maybe 10-20%.

[Tydeus]

I wonder why all of you agility whores don`t want a change in the armour req`s, since you claim that agi build + heavy armour fucks up your build..

Yes I indeed wonder why 

Playing with light armor is NOT fun right now. Simply lowering armor values right now, without doing anything else, would make agi melee nearly unbearable. Very few people can play(and enjoy) melee with an agi build using sub 40 armor values. Both ranged, and teamwounds, tear you to pieces. Having half the melee on the server lower their armor by 20, would have drastic side effects. You cannot think of it as simply playing with that equipment in our current meta game.

Look at how people play with those builds right now. They play very passively, they play safe, they don't fight in the heart of the mobs, they fight on the outsides. If you do not have people to fill the center, or your center is made out of paper, what do you think will happen? How will people react to this? There can be only 2 outcomes. 1, they'll scatter and you'll have significantly smaller groups of conflict. 2(and much more likely), people will get just enough strength to return to our current status quo. Why? Well why do the min/maxers use those armors to begin with? Because they provide the best survivability, with the least penalty on pub servers.