An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system

[En_Dotter]

That system is bullshit. Similar is used in Mercenaries and it sucks balls. The reward for assisting the kill is not good enough to encourage team work but trying to kill as much as u can... Also ranged need exp to be able to support you melee my old friends. I never saw "tnx" from a melee guy that was surrounded by 3 other melee that survived cus i either killed all 3 or kept stunning them so he can either escape or kill them...
First, learn to respect other classes and embrace team work and then you can add something like this.
Just plain stupid way of giving exp and gold...

[Pestdoktor]

Without having read your post, w/o gold gain after death, upkeep would probably need to be changed accordingly. Let me paste my suggestion from the IRC:

How about tying repairs to hits landed/blocked or dmg soaked for armors, of course then you sould only get gold/exp if one of the respective players is in the weapon range of the other.

That being said, I love the multi system and see no reason why it should be removed, we just need to learn to work together...

[StonedSteel]

Well something needs to be done, i came to late for the old xp system, by the sounds of it, i would have loved it. Idk what should be done, but i do know, something should be, game is at its lowest point right now for me.

Watching archers \ throwers top the board and get valor...disgusting.

I have to put my life on the line to get kills. Valor for Ranged?

Do you not know what the word Valor means?

There are a million and one shooting games out there, very many of them get it right.

There are very few melee games out there, very few of them get it even close.

Dont let the best melee game be dominated by shooting...just dont

[LordRichrich]

Remember when we got told the multi system was temporary (not as in we'll replace it next week temporary but "we're working on a new system to be released") ah good fucking times eh

[Thomek]

Do it as a test, or implement it every few maps. One in 5 for example. If people like it, add more of it.

We can have BOTH!

Spawn a message: Proximity mode XP is now ON!

In any case it may give more variable gameplay, and that would be good.

It's true the effect it often had was to emulate situations we never see nowadays. Like guarding a gate or a narrow passage. Seeing massive mayhem. It was in essence an artificial tool, but the situations it created definitely simulated situations most of us consider medieval:

Tight, packed battles defending or attacking some vantage point.

That's why we should test it. Bring it on!

(click to show/hide)

But tbh I don't think it matters that much. I don't think many players care about gold/xp nowadays (I never did), but I might of course be wrong.

[Tzar]

I like this idea, but!!!

Something would have to be done about upkeep, or else cav/ranged and ninja´s will be ruined by upkeep.

[larlek]

+1

I've never liked the tick system at all. A change would be great.

[Kafein]

What proximity brings back to mind:

• XP Barns
• Camping in other places too
• Mega rage, when you die (to ranged or cav?) early in the round
• More camping
• Rewards staying alive as long as possible - thus, more camping, more passive play, less actual fighting

That's just not true. Do you even remember ? Gawd.

XP Barns : a good thing
Camping in other places : if you camp away from the enemy you don't get XP, therefore you stay near the fight and it's not camping nor delaying
Mega rage when you die early : not worse than with multi. And if you die in the right spot, you get all the xp nevertheless
Rewards staying alive as long as possible : same as above, that's just not true


All of that, and less xp and gold for asshats

[Sandersson Jankins]

Too much of a scrub to have even played during the proximity XP system, since I started in mid 2012, but Dexxtaa paints a pretty picture and I fucking love pretty pictures and I fucking love Dexxtaa, so I approve completely.

Edit: Although I must say the whole "spawn flags when 5 are left" thing prevents jackass bad players from trying to clutch a round against 15 people, it also prevents actual good players from doing the same against 5. I'd rather have the latter than the former anyway. Fuck I'm drunk

[[ptx]]

That's just not true. Do you even remember ? Gawd.

XP Barns : a good thing
Camping in other places : if you camp away from the enemy you don't get XP, therefore you stay near the fight and it's not camping nor delaying
Mega rage when you die early : not worse than with multi. And if you die in the right spot, you get all the xp nevertheless
Rewards staying alive as long as possible : same as above, that's just not true


All of that, and less xp and gold for asshats

Wat?

This is either a bad case of nostalgia glasses or you have not played much before multi system.

XP Barns are the worst thing.
You don't get it, EVERYONE CAMPED TOGETHER. As long as the map allowed at least 1 camping spot, it would be camped.
If you die early, you get NOTHING!
No, it was very true and there were enough people that exploited that - and that was back then, when minmaxing wasn't as huge as it is now.

[Kafein]

Wat?

This is either a bad case of nostalgia glasses or you have not played much before multi system.

I believe I started playing cRPG mid august 2010, and played a fucking lot.

XP Barns are the worst thing.

Opinions I guess. I liked it.

You don't get it, EVERYONE CAMPED TOGETHER. As long as the map allowed at least 1 camping spot, it would be camped.

We don't define camping the same way. For me it's not camping if you are 3 meters away from the enemy and people next to you are actually fighting. It seems that for you "camping" means everybody is in the same place, regardless of whether they seek to avoid confrontation or not.

If you die early, you get NOTHING!

And right now if you team loses you get more or less nothing either.

No, it was very true and there were enough people that exploited that - and that was back then, when minmaxing wasn't as huge as it is now.

I don't see this is as very exploitable. If you don't help your team killing the enemy you don't get as much xp as you would if you did. Actually this is a much bigger problem with the multiplier.

[Teeth]

First of all I think your point of 'look we had more players back then, thus this one change must have been bad' is breaking all laws of logic. Using this reasoning you could say that the addition of banners on the scoreboard was a bad change, because we had more players before this change.

Nevertheless, I prefer the old xp/gold system because it made all sorts of playstyles that are rage inducing to me much more unattractive. Horse archers, did not get much xp. Crossbowmen hiding in every corner of the map sniping did not get much xp. Valour whores camping a favourable position and not helping their team did not much xp. Groups of archers standing out in an open field away from the fight would not get much xp. Also a clan gank sticking together would not be able to roll the server as they do now, simply because everybody would stick together. Getting ganked because your teammates spread out everywhere would happen less often. It would incentivize people to fight together and that alone would fix many of my frustrations. Big teamfights make this game awesome if you ask me. It also incentivizes people to stay alive near the fight, which I think adds to any video game.

It has drawbacks ofcourse, one of them was that if you died early you would get no xp. In those times everybody had a shield though so that would not happen often if you stuck with your mates. The incentive to campenclosed locations with entire teams was somewhat lame, but still offered a good fight usually.

Those are small drawbacks which I do not find larger at all than the current terrible multi system which encourages bundle of sticksry on so much levels. The old system could be modified by implementing a base bonus for having your team win, or some point system based bonuses like valour. I also think ranged units should have the radius from their kills around the ranged player getting the kill, instead of the target dying. Perhaps the entire radius should be based on dealing damage instead of kills anyhow. In any case that system was much more fun for new players, having played my new player days in it. It really felt rewarding you just stayed alive the entire round and got yourself a lot of xp. The system taught you to get a shield, get a pitchfork and support the big guys as best you can.

[Joker86]

- make MOTF appear in the beginning and be the only condition to win the map
- reward infantry for being close to the flag, based on time ticks and flag "condition" (helping to raise it again from almost the ground grants more than camping a completely raised flag)
- reward archers and cavalry for kills
- once infantry gets killed within the flag area they keep on getting the same rewards, but at a slower rate
- once infantry gets killed outside the flag area or once cavalry and archers get killed, they get points for all kills on the map at a slower rate
- the time needed to win/lose determines the rewards, too. The faster you win or the slower you lose, the better.
- implement a commander system basing on different flags to place with different orders. Being around that flag and doing that order grants rewards

There you have teamplay, rewards according to the gameplay of the class, and a system which doesn't punish you for going on the toilet.

[no_rules_just_play]

- make MOTF appear in the beginning and be the only condition to win the map

No thanks, I really don't like that idea.

I like, however thomek's idea. It would be great if a new system was developped and tested every few maps.
Either a seriously changed proximity system or the long announced score system with a serious overhaul to the score calculation:
*proximity system, different xp and gold count based on the weapon you perform the dmg with?:
-inf should stick together and fight in a group
-ranged should also stick together on a distance of the infantry and shoot in the enemy mob (no kiting unless in a team, no f'ing shotgunning from point blank range).
-again, cav is a though one. They should be charging in packs and group up every time they want to charge again.
-gold: if it was really so bad before I suggest an overall higher gold gain than the old proximity system. Upkeep should certainly stay!
*A score based system, with a different score calculation:
-currently score is a bit too much in the odds of daggermen (if they play smart). It gives a bit too much points for the amount of damage they do because they are able to stab extremely fast.
-staying in the big mob is also not always the best way to gain score atm, waiting a bit and being able to survive a bit longer is often smarter than helping your team in the main charge.
-basically the same points as for the proximity system count here. Ranged should get proximity bonus from other ranged around them hitting targets and not from being close to the infantery. Cavalry should probably need to get some kind of support bonus for the infantry they managed to run over resulting in a friendly mplayer managing to kill that person.

That's all I can come up for now. I suggest implemtenting a very rough system and waiting for feedback. This wau certain classes can get a bit more or less xp for their actions so all (useful) classes get about the same
 
Yes, personally I don't really care if my troll alt gets massive xp or not. I have fun with it even when I'm playing against the system.

[no_rules_just_play]

Double post sorry